Harper's cabinet two step

[Neverenuff$]

The Conservative Party have done nothing yet but point fingers and blame. The liberals will give us something. I am sure it will not be enough, but it will be better than the Conservatives. 2050 is far to late to get started.

Geez The Liberals had 12 years to "Give us something" .. I guess giving it to us up the Ass reduced methane emissions anyway ...

Don't forget the current Lieberal Leacher Dion was Enironment minister for 17 months ... he didn't even have a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and diss the Americans...

before that he was unity minister so he couldn't have known about adscam either...

now of course the Liberals tell us that the Environment is our number one concern and only "they" can fix it .. Like Canadian Unity and Health and .....
all the other near disasters they fixed..



oooops almost ranted there

 

[clubber]

Inspite of the French and Alberta Separatists we still have a country. We still have a health system, not the best but better that what the US has. Did you also know that the PQ party in Qubec had done something like the ADSCAM. they gave a ton of money to their friends in the media to help secure their support and the strength of the separatist movement in the Qubec media. It is just it did not come out in the media, because we don't want to offend the separatists. No the Conservatives go many steps better, they get right in bed with them, and spoon with them, and Lord knows what all they are doing to keep power with the Separatists.

Remember how Harper beat out Stockwell Day. Day had taken 2 million of Alberta tax dollars to finance his legal troubles. Harper scandled out Day to become leader, Day appologized, gave some of the money back and was forgiven and now a top minister under Harpers thumb. Do you know Harper was President of the Citizen's Cololition. Right wing racist garbage. I had good friends who joined this thing, till they found out that one of our Black friends was not wanted at a local meeting. After reading some of the garbage anyone associated with this junk should never have been let into politics. I am shocked this has not come back to haunt Harper. Bring back Preston Manning, John Crosby, Joe Clark. The right wing movement has fallen on hard times. Selling it's soul to the highest bidder.

Too many people I know who are right wing have no party. They reluctantly vote for the Liberals, because the Conservatives are too sleazy unless they have a good individual like Garth Turner, oops, um well at least they still have Michael Chong, for now anyway

 

[clubber]

I would love to have a better Health Care system, but we do live next to the USA who do a hell of alot trying to make ours a for profit Health Care so they can make money from us. I am in the middle of the Clinton autobiography. Read this and you will see just how the forces of the Private Health care hurt him. How hard it was for him to bring about what he did. Do you know that many Americans look at our system with envy, and like to buy our cheaper drugs. Yet I would agree there are better systems around the world. We should be looking to them. I don't think privitization is the way. When I hear the world privitization I think idealistic fool, someone who wants to make money off the public (corruption).

If we can ever end our politicians dependency on Special Interest groups, it would be alot better. Then we also have to end the relationship of media with these same Special Interest groups. This goes right across all parties and all major media. Drug Companies, Gun Lobby, Tobacco Lobby, Fast Food Lobby, you name it. They have the power and they want more. They do not want anyone taking any power from them. If we try to pass a law that looks as if it could touch their power they spend billions to squash it. One of the main reasons we can not go forward with proper Health Care Reform. Liberals cannot do it, and the Conservative idea is to sell it off.

It would help if we would atleast look to the future and train enough doctors, and stop poaching any skilled people from developing countries who need their educated people.

 

[Sergei]

I would love to have a better Health Care system, but we do live next to the USA who do a hell of alot trying to make ours a for profit Health Care so they can make money from us. I am in the middle of the Clinton autobiography. Read this and you will see just how the forces of the Private Health care hurt him. How hard it was for him to bring about what he did. Do you know that many Americans look at our system with envy, and like to buy our cheaper drugs. Yet I would agree there are better systems around the world. We should be looking to them. I don't think privitization is the way. When I hear the world privitization I think idealistic fool, someone who wants to make money off the public (corruption).

If we can ever end our politicians dependency on Special Interest groups, it would be alot better. Then we also have to end the relationship of media with these same Special Interest groups. This goes right across all parties and all major media. Drug Companies, Gun Lobby, Tobacco Lobby, Fast Food Lobby, you name it. They have the power and they want more. They do not want anyone taking any power from them. If we try to pass a law that looks as if it could touch their power they spend billions to squash it. One of the main reasons we can not go forward with proper Health Care Reform. Liberals cannot do it, and the Conservative idea is to sell it off.

It would help if we would atleast look to the future and train enough doctors, and stop poaching any skilled people from developing countries who need their educated people.

Maybe I was a little harsh. I apologize for that. However, private health care is essential. I don't support eliminating public health care - then we would all be at the mercy of companies instead of the government. I'm not looking for a different master. Consumer CHOICE is what I support. I needed one x-ray in Canada and they booked it for over 2 months later, when in a private facility you can get the same thing the next day. And it's not very expensive either (outside the US of course). On another occasion they told me to come back in 5 months to see a specialist so I went to one in Europe on a business trip and paid 29 Euros. Big deal. Who are the communist health care advocates to tell me that I can't choose to pay my own money to help myself? People have to suffer for the sake of communism? Most European countries have private health care facilities (for those who choose to use them) existing in parallel with the government system and things work out just fine. Canadian health care is communist and fascist at the same time. That's the real problem.

It's psychological.

 

[clubber]

I would not mind Private except for one thing. It drains the public system. If you are a health care provider and can work for more money in private than public almost all with their huge debts from education start up costs will got where the money is. All the best will go to private. The public get stuck with the rest. Those who can afford good health care pay for it, those who cannot go to the a bad public system. The only choice here is a do I pay for what I should get, or not pay for the scraps. The result alot of people don't who do cannot afford the private suffer. Bad enough growing up poor, but having to be in a wheel chair for the rest of your life because substandard health care put you there. That really not right in a country as rich as Canada. Getting fired because your companies health care coverage will rise if you go to see a doctor one more time this year. This is not a good choice. We are all in this together. We all deserve the best. Due to the special interest groups we are not able to do this. Theres money to be had in them there sick people.

What choice will there be for small communities, or poor communities that the private sector will not see enough profit to open up there.

Those who can afford private will soon grow tired of paying taxes to pay for the poor people, and the pressure will be on to cut the funding to the public system constantly weakening it.

What we need is a NO by all Canadians to a two tiered system. NO Mr Harper, No Dion, NO anyone in power to any form of private system. We want the best Health Care System in the world. We pay enough for it, we deserve it.

You want choice, how about a choice of doctors, because somebody finally realized we need to train more doctors, and finally have enough. A medical choice is when a medical professional sits down with you and tells you what can be done for you problem, not are you rich enough to be made better, or have to settle for second best. Or does you child suffer, or do you go in debt for the rest of your life.

 

[Sergei]

I would not mind Private except for one thing. It drains the public system. If you are a health care provider and can work for more money in private than public almost all with their huge debts from education start up costs will got where the money is. All the best will go to private. The public get stuck with the rest. Those who can afford good health care pay for it, those who cannot go to the a bad public system. The only choice here is a do I pay for what I should get, or not pay for the scraps. The result alot of people don't who do cannot afford the private suffer. Bad enough growing up poor, but having to be in a wheel chair for the rest of your life because substandard health care put you there. That really not right in a country as rich as Canada. Getting fired because your companies health care coverage will rise if you go to see a doctor one more time this year. This is not a good choice. We are all in this together. We all deserve the best. Due to the special interest groups we are not able to do this. Theres money to be had in them there sick people.

What choice will there be for small communities, or poor communities that the private sector will not see enough profit to open up there.

Those who can afford private will soon grow tired of paying taxes to pay for the poor people, and the pressure will be on to cut the funding to the public system constantly weakening it.

What we need is a NO by all Canadians to a two tiered system. NO Mr Harper, No Dion, NO anyone in power to any form of private system. We want the best Health Care System in the world. We pay enough for it, we deserve it.

You want choice, how about a choice of doctors, because somebody finally realized we need to train more doctors, and finally have enough. A medical choice is when a medical professional sits down with you and tells you what can be done for you problem, not are you rich enough to be made better, or have to settle for second best. Or does you child suffer, or do you go in debt for the rest of your life.

Obviously you don't know anything about what's going on in the outside world. None of the stuff you say has happened in Europe. A lot of the doctors there work for BOTH systems. Doctors visits are not very expensive. They're cheaper than hockey tickets and liquor is in Canada. Nothing you say is substantiated - it's all a typical bunch of Canadian leftie mish-mash and graphic images of Canada as a sort of Bangladesh under free health care. Go live abroad like I have and see for yourself that things are better when private health care is legal. I've always gotten better service abroad than I have gotten in Canada - and I'm NOT super rich. Things do not collapse. Switzerland has private hospitals - but that doesn't stop it from kicking Canada's ass on the public front as well.

Your basic hidden premise this: That it is morally superior to make everybody wait 8 months for a medical procedure rather than allow private health care and have some people wait, say 3 months, while others don't wait at all. It's the inequality you don't like. Wake up - inequality is everywhere.

It's precisely the attitude you express that has gotten Canada in the mess it's in right now. And it is going to get a lot worse.

Basically, communist medicine is a form of fascism, just like political correctness is, and it forces the people who want to help themselves to go to the good old USA, which you criticize.

Private health care does not kill, Canadian waiting lists do. It's time to have a SERIOUS debate in Canada without living in a phony socialist coccoon.

 

[Quest4Less]

They reluctantly vote for the Liberals, because the Conservatives are too sleazy

When I read that I laughed so hard my drink came out my nose. The Conservatives are sleazy??????

The LIEberals are nothing more than THIEVES who steal from us at EVERY available chance. They took billions - HRDC, gun registry, adscam... etc, etc...

So who are the sleazy ones?????

 

[clubber]

Obviously you don't know anything about what's going on in the outside world. None of the stuff you say has happened in Europe. A lot of the doctors there work for BOTH systems. Doctors visits are not very expensive. They're cheaper than hockey tickets and liquor is in Canada. Nothing you say is substantiated - it's all a typical bunch of Canadian leftie mish-mash and graphic images of Canada as a sort of Bangladesh under free health care. Go live abroad like I have and see for yourself that things are better when private health care is legal. I've always gotten better service abroad than I have gotten in Canada - and I'm NOT super rich. Things do not collapse. Switzerland has private hospitals - but that doesn't stop it from kicking Canada's ass on the public front as well.

Your basic hidden premise this: That it is morally superior to make everybody wait 8 months for a medical procedure rather than allow private health care and have some people wait, say 3 months, while others don't wait at all. It's the inequality you don't like. Wake up - inequality is everywhere.

It's precisely the attitude you express that has gotten Canada in the mess it's in right now. And it is going to get a lot worse.

Basically, communist medicine is a form of fascism, just like political correctness is, and it forces the people who want to help themselves to go to the good old USA, which you criticize.

Private health care does not kill, Canadian waiting lists do. It's time to have a SERIOUS debate in Canada without living in a phony socialist coccoon.

And we were having such a good discussion. Our medical is far from Communist or fascism. I am probably a lot farther from politically correct as you can get. I abhor it greatly, and have actively faught against the insanity of it. I take that one personally. As to not knowing what is going on in the world, well I have friends and family in both USA Ireland and England. I have had many great talks with them and many people on the net about their systems, this includes good net friends in Sweden Germany England Austrailia and alot in the USA. Alot of different ideas and views.

Then there is the fact that I was a child needing medical treatment in the 70s some time before we had abit of a socialized medical system It came close to leaving me crippled. I knew a family who had to sell their house and get into debt so bad due to a childs illness. A great family laid low during the dark days of private.

Now President Clinton had done some things that has made the US system work alot better, yet he is called a fascist. The Republicans have tired to make him look like big brother for it. Oddly some of what he brought in really worked well. Yet the majority of Americans think our system is better. I think that if you had of given the Clintons more time they may have over come the problems, and possibly shown away for private and socialized medicine to work.

Waiting lists have a lot to do with Urban Myth. I have never heard of anyone around here waiting for an X-ray. The doctor gives you a bit of paper with things checked off you go to a place that does x-rays, if you go at the right time they get you in right away. Ultra Sounds you make an appointment, usually done in a day or two. CAT scans if you need them you get them.

I do know a lady who got national media attention, CTV, Sun headline news, it seems she waited years to get a hear bi pass. They kept putting the dates back on this poor woman. She complained to the hilt. She ended up dying unable to get a bi pass. The real reason was not the waiting list, it was because she was in no shape to get an operation of any type. Yet the papers blamed it on the waiting list.

Talking to my cousin in Calgary he has a story of another headline grabber much the same way, that the papers blamed on the waiting list.

What what waiting lists exist due to lack of resorces. This is where every party Federally and in every province has screwed up. Not enough doctors or other medical personal. Private will not correct this unless it steal from other countries.

Talking to a Doctor in India a few months back who works in a Private hospital. He says these are vital to India to bring money into the Health care system. Great hospitals with all the equiptment, you see they take people in from richer countries, mainly European and the USA, and this helps pay for much needed medical in India. Oddly he listed in the people coming from other countries Switzerland.

Now in your post you have called our system Communist Fascist and Socalist. Anyone with any amount of Political Science understanding is probably have an great laugh at your expense. When you throw all there together like that I take it you are not really thinking.

Our biggest problem with our system is the Special Interest groups who serve to muddy the water of what is really going on. They also have a firm grip of what is said in the media on this. Drug Companies do not want to lose their amazing profits. Many US private firms are licking their lips looking at Canada.

 

[pussylicker]

The Lieberals had 12 years to "Give us something".... and we got nothing but wasted money.

I guess giving it to us up the Ass reduced methane emissions anyway.... that is called the corked effect.

Don't forget the current Lieberal Leacher Dion was Enironment minister for 17 months ... he didn't even have a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and.... his dog comes running.

Before that he was unity minister so he couldn't have known about adscam either... but he flirted with being a Marxist for a couple of days, and also admits to being a seperatist too.

Now of course the Lieberals tell us that the Environment is our number one concern and only "they" can fix it.... the Lieberals are the only ones who can save us from ourselves, or is it themselves once they've brainwashed everyone again.

 

[pussylicker]

If the Conservatives cannot deliver here and we kill them on it, if there is a growing move to the green party the liberals will flop that way.

The Harper Clean Air Act was a joke. We do not have to the year 2050 to start. We need to start years ago say 1980, or even the the 50's when the idea of global warming was first purposed. The Green Party could not possibly govern yet. The NDP Party well um ah, let us pretend they don't exist. The Conservative Party have done nothing yet but point fingers and blame. The liberals will give us something. I am sure it will not be enough, but it will be better than the Conservatives. 2050 is far to late to get started.

Note to self that Lieberals footwear of choice is flipflops. Thanks for the reminder.

Trudeau gave us more gas taxes, and nothing for the environment. Mulroney went after the States regarding acid rain. Mean Jean and Mr Dithers did nothing, but lie and pick our pockets to fill their own.

So over the past 25 years, pollution has definately become an issue. Talking about it won't make it go away, but any plan to fix it won't clean it up overnight either.

Mean Jean had his chance to pick up the ball and run with it, but he fumbled. The only thing he did consistantly was play with his putter and build a statue.

Mr Dithers was busy sitting in his tub playing with his little boats and hoisting flags from other countries.

Stephanie is making a mockery of the whole situation by calling his dog Kyoto.

So where was the leadership in trying to solve the problem. Just a bunch of lip service. I say they should charge Mean Jean and Company with fraud.

 

[Neverenuff$]

Well if the environment concerns Dion so much .. he can go to his other country ..France..

why all the talk (typing) about the Canadian Health Care system .. Dithers fixed it !!.. remember the current number 1 threat to us is according to the liberals (and they KNOW ) is Environmental concerns. And only the liberals can fix it and save us all ...

The lberals didn't tell us about this last election .. it was their hidden agenda .. Tree huggers .. on the streets .. eating granola .. in CANADA !!!

 

[train]

And all that time, Harper and his CPOC cronies [Stockwell!!!] were treating global warming like a big joke, undermining Kyoto and calling the Liberals idiots for signing us up.

.

Well the Liberals were idiots for signing us up so Harpers behaviour seems rationale.....although I admit the 15 years of Liberal bungling of environmental matters is nothing to laugh about.

 

[clubber]

This is a hell of alot more than 15 years of bungling. The first book I read on global warming, or the more Harper PC words climate change was written in the 50's. Since then there has been a huge deny situation. Even if you don't believe in the science of it, common sense will tell you that if you keep pumping crap into the air you will cause a major problem. It is much like smoking you can believe all the lies pumped out by the smoking special interest groups, or you can think yoursef that if you start pumping all that smoke into your body something bad is going to crop up.

Now this global warming did not just suddenly crop up in the last few years. We have had 50 years to deal with it. Governments of all types have passed it over.

We are wasting time doing this blame game, if Baird comes up with something good soon it might get them elected. If the Liberals come up with something good then they probably will. Yes Dion had 17 months and did very little except come up with a plan that got shot down before first reading. Harper had 12 months, came up with a plan that insulted the intelligence of all Canadians. He realized this fired his minister and has put someone in place who right now seems like he wants to do business. He has one of the biggest special interest groups to deal with.

Now we all know some of you hear hate the Liberals. No sense going on about it, I have read the sun and all of what is said has been printed in the little paper that grew and sold out.

 

[Neverenuff$]

"We are wasting time doing this blame game, if Baird comes up with something good soon it might get them elected. If the Liberals come up with something good then they probably will. Yes Dion had 17 months and did very little except come up with a plan that got shot down before first reading. Harper had 12 months, came up with a plan that insulted the intelligence of all Canadians. He realized this fired his minister and has put someone in place who right now seems like he wants to do business. He has one of the biggest special interest groups to deal with."

Agreed The Conservatives are trying to come up with an acceptable plan .. bearing in mind the Oil sector and the automotive sector, and some fiscal responsibility .

Dion /Liberals nothing .. just cut a check to the UN , and rename your dog (no stronach)

(and of course Goldstiens blurb in the Sun was pretty cool)

 

[slowpoke]

...Geez The Liberals had 12 years to "Give us something" .. I guess giving it to us up the Ass reduced methane emissions anyway ...

Don't forget the current Lieberal Leacher Dion was Enironment minister for 17 months ... he didn't even have a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and diss the Americans...

before that he was unity minister so he couldn't have known about adscam either...

now of course the Liberals tell us that the Environment is our number one concern and only "they" can fix it .. Like Canadian Unity and Health and .....
all the other near disasters they fixed..

oooops almost ranted there

The Libs held power for 12 years but remember the responsibility for the environment is predominantly within provincial jurisdiction. So on the subject of global warming, why aren't you blaming Conservative premier Ralph Klein? He was the (shudder) environment minister in Don Getty's government before becoming the premier in 1992. So he had previous environmental experience, even more time than the federal Liberals did and emissions were within his provincial jurisdiction. So it was HIS fucking job to curb emissions but he, like most of those Alberta conservatives, just hid his head in the sand and hoped it would all go away. Just like Stockwell and Rona and Harper.

Meanwhile, Dion was Environment Minister for 17 months, starting in July 2004. That isn't very long but he DID get a few things done:

http://www.liberal.ca/members_e.aspx?id=2369
"Among his accomplishments as Environment Minister, Mr. Dion won international agreement to extend the Kyoto protocol beyond 2012 at the follow-up to the Kyoto Conference on Climate Change in Montreal in December 2005. This followed his announcement, in April 2005, of Project Green – an updated climate change plan to honour its Kyoto commitments. In June 2005, Mr. Dion also announced $9.2 million in funding to help protect species at risk and their habitat."


This is part of the CBC Kyoto timeline. I've shown only the events that occurred during Dion's tenure as environment minister:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kyoto/timeline.html

[2004]
Sept. 30: Russia approves Kyoto and later formally ratifies it, giving the protocol enough support for it to go into force in February 2005.

December: Canada finally abandons attempt to win emission credits for exporting clean natural gas and hydroelectric power to the U.S.

2005


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
January: Several media organizations say Ottawa is about to announce a revamp of its 2002 Kyoto implementation plan.

Feb. 16: Kyoto Protocol formally goes into force. Canada still has not released details of how it will achieve its Kyoto commitments.

March 23: The federal government and Canada's car makers reach an agreement on emissions standards. Automakers agree that its new vehicles will cut emissions by 5.3 megatonnes by 2010 as part of Ottawa's Kyoto plan.

April 6: The minority Liberal government offers to pull a controversial provision dealing with the Kyoto accord from its budget bill. The opposition Conservatives, NDP and Bloc Québécois have all said they would vote against the budget because of the provision, which would make greenhouse gas emissions a controlled substance so Ottawa could regulate them. In order to appease the opposition, Liberal House leader Tony Valeri offers a deal to Conservative House leader Jay Hill that will allow the finance committee to reject the proposal.

April 13: The federal government announces details of its Kyoto implementation plan, which revamps the plan it put in place almost three years earlier. The government pledges $10 billion to cut greenhouse gases by 270 megatonnes a year by 2008-2012. The plan relaxes emission targets for large industrial polluters.

April 14: Environmentalists say parts of Ottawa's new plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will be good for the Atlantic region. The Atlantic chapter of the Sierra Club of Canada says promoting the use of alternative energy sources is ideal because Atlantic Canada has a high wind potential. But they're disappointed with the targets set for large polluters. Large companies create almost half of the country's emissions, but they are only required to reduce them by about 14 per cent.

A Yukon environmental group says federal plans fall far short of what's needed. The Yukon Conservation Society says the government is only promising to consult with large firms that produce about 50 per cent of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, rather than force them to cut their CO2 production.

Nov. 3: Alberta files a formal objection to the federal government's plans to implement the Kyoto accord and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Alberta has long opposed the Kyoto accord, saying it will hurt the province's lucrative oil and gas industry. Provincial Environment Minister Guy Boutilier says Alberta should be allowed to put its own legislation in place to regulate greenhouse gas emissions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephane_Dion
..."Canada's poor Kyoto implementation record did not prevent Dion from earning high praise for his work chairing the U.N. Climate Change summit (COP 11/MOP 1) in Montreal in 2005. [36] Later, when Dion's record as environment minister was under scrutiny in the closing days of the Liberal leadership campaign, former Sierra Club of Canada director and current leader of the Green Party of Canada Elizabeth May came to his defence, calling him a "very very good environment minister."[37]


So would you like to reconsider your earlier statement: "Don't forget the current Lieberal Leacher Dion was Enironment minister for 17 months ... he didn't even have a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and diss the Americans...".

 

[Neverenuff$]

fine I'll use the conservative web site....

Dion ,for all his liberal site and CBC site (and Lizzy May's kudos) on his environmental greatness... lets see...Dion has won similiar awards as Ambrose...


While the Liberals and the media are quick to criticize the Conservative government and trumpet the “Fossil Award”, perhaps the Liberals should explain their own environmental record, for which they were awarded their own “Fossil Award”. While Liberals like John Godfrey are bragging about their record, he forgets to mention that these very same environmental groups he now claims to support were awarding the Liberal government with these very same “Fossil Awards” last year. Why the double-standard?:


Further ... back in 1992 the environment wasn't a concern (remember its now a potential election issue... so only the liberals can solve the problem)
Alberta was still "reeling" from Trudeau's .. NEP .. and the electorate wasn't going to stand for more oil patch tinkering from a provincial government ...


anyway .. vote liberal they'll fix the environment They promise..

they'll do it by:
NOT having a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and dissing the Americans...".

or maybe thres someone they can "pay off" ... like the UN ?

 

[slowpoke]

fine I'll use the conservative web site....

Dion ,for all his liberal site and CBC site (and Lizzy May's kudos) on his environmental greatness... lets see...Dion has won similiar awards as Ambrose...


While the Liberals and the media are quick to criticize the Conservative government and trumpet the “Fossil Award”, perhaps the Liberals should explain their own environmental record, for which they were awarded their own “Fossil Award”. While Liberals like John Godfrey are bragging about their record, he forgets to mention that these very same environmental groups he now claims to support were awarding the Liberal government with these very same “Fossil Awards” last year. Why the double-standard?:


Further ... back in 1992 the environment wasn't a concern (remember its now a potential election issue... so only the liberals can solve the problem)
Alberta was still "reeling" from Trudeau's .. NEP .. and the electorate wasn't going to stand for more oil patch tinkering from a provincial government ...


anyway .. vote liberal they'll fix the environment They promise..

they'll do it by:
NOT having a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and dissing the Americans...".

or maybe thres someone they can "pay off" ... like the UN ?

So no explanation of why Klein didn't want to do HIS JOB and take any steps to cut Alberta's emissions? I can see why he wouldn't have done much about it back in 1992 but he should have made a start once global warming became an issue in the late 90s. Klein even lodged a formal objection when Dion tried to implement Kyoto. So if Dion was actively sabotaged by conservatives, you can't very well accuse him of doing nothing can you? If he was doing nothing, Klein would have had nothing to object to. If Dion was trying to implement Kyoto but was stonewalled by hardballing industry groups and stone age provincial premiers, it becomes a bit unrealistic to bestow the fossil award and claim that he wasn't doing anything. I think Dion tried VERY hard but the odds were really stacked against him.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kyoto/timeline.html

"Nov. 3: Alberta files a formal objection to the federal government's plans to implement the Kyoto accord and reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Alberta has long opposed the Kyoto accord, saying it will hurt the province's lucrative oil and gas industry. Provincial Environment Minister Guy Boutilier says Alberta should be allowed to put its own legislation in place to regulate greenhouse gas emissions."..

You've repeatedly accused Dion of doing nothing during his 17 months as environment minister but you're awfully short on specifics now that I've pointed out the absurdity of your statement. I have been patiently documenting Dion's record during his 17 months but you're giving us nothing but a bunch of blather about Trudeau, John Godfrey etc. WTF do they have to do with this? On second thought, don't answer that. I can only tolerate so much bullshit on any given day and I'm at my limit.

 

[Sergei]

Clubber:

The ideal of communism is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." That's Canada. They take from me and when I need them they tell me to come back in five months. Zero freedom on health expenditures equals communism. They're not only forcing me to pay for something that I think sucks, but they won't let me choose an alternative other than foreign countries. I asked them to do certain tests and they refused. Maybe they should give me some tax money back to make up for their lack of service.

As far as political correctness goes, I'm sorry, but I was pissed off and I couldn't help it. Some things just get to me sometimes. I used the wrong tone and that was my fault.

 

[pussylicker]

What is the grounds for a charge of extortion?

We are now being held hostage by 8? special interest groups who will sink Harper if he doesn't do everything they want. If that happens, then we get the Lieberals back who we know are spineless cowards and bend over for special interest groups, then give it to us up the butt.

This whole thing is BS. Yes Canadians contribute to global warming, but the farking States are below us, and at TEN times the pop size, they spew more sh!t into the air that drifts northward than we produce here.

First, Canada has a size that is bigger than Europe, we have towns and cities farther apart, and people have to commute to work. Sorry folks, but I don't want to be able to shake my neighbours hand through bathroom windows. Cities need to be designed with greenspace amongst the industrial, commercial and residential areas, because buildings built on top of each other create more weather problems(wind tunnel affect), than solve them. Some programs implemented in Europe may not or won't work here in Canada. Greening industry is a great idea, but the cost will be passed on to consumers. This drives up costs of our products, while cheap offshore sh!t continues to flood Wallmart and other major retailers.

So secondly, our economy will suffer as more cheap sh!t enters the country from territories not playing under the rules of Kyoto. I know of at least two auto parts manufacturing companies who have made the decision to go offshore to eleminate costs of production. As well, it's no secret that GM wants to build more cars in China and ship to North America. Why? So they can continue to pad their wallets. Cheap energy and labour are the only reasons for leaving. Quality won't be the same, shipping costs will be increased, so there must be a significant gain from energy cost to warrant the move. Cheap labour and poorer quality don't balance out.

Third, if we have a made in Canada approach that gets pushed by these 8 special interest groups, then what is the results when they test the air, and find high levels of CO2 that is still drifting up from the States? Tell us we haven't done enough and make us suffer some more? As long as the world is spinning, the warmer air from the south will continue to move northward, and will always reach the Artic during the spring/summer seasons. Canada is not unique, but the northern locale of our nation guarantees that we have to use more energy to heat our homes than the States and other countries. Winter slows down the commute, as well as storm conditions. Winnepeg has a colder winter climate than most cities in Canada, so one stroke of the pen, and Kyoto is applied equally to everyone regardless of where they live. We have snow belts, so should someone get punished or restricted based on where they live? Who gets to say who gets what allotment of consumable energy? Because there is more smog in Toronto, why should everyone in Canada suffer to help Toronto, when it isn't just Toronto's fault? Who has the right to force you to use public transit, to cut smog, while endangering your health?

If the playing field is leveled, and the States are held accountable, along with other countries, then that changes everything. Kyoto is a farking joke.

 

[pussylicker]

Meanwhile, Dion was Environment Minister for 17 months, starting in July 2004. That isn't very long but he DID get a few things done:

This is part of the CBC Kyoto timeline. I've shown only the events that occurred during Dion's tenure as environment minister:
[2004]December: Canada finally abandons attempt to win emission credits for exporting clean natural gas and hydroelectric power to the U.S.

I wouldn't want that on my resume if I was Dion

2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
January: Several media organizations say Ottawa is about to announce a revamp of its 2002 Kyoto implementation plan.

Feb. 16: Kyoto Protocol formally goes into force. Canada still has not released details of how it will achieve its Kyoto commitments.

Another thing I wouldn't want on a resume. So the first one wasn't good enough. The truth comes out, showing us that the Lieberals didn't know what they were commiting to. Feb states that Dion, doesn't know what he's doing.

April 6: The minority Liberal government offers to pull a controversial provision dealing with the Kyoto accord from its budget bill. The opposition Conservatives, NDP and Bloc Québécois have all said they would vote against the budget because of the provision, which would make greenhouse gas emissions a controlled substance so Ottawa could regulate them. In order to appease the opposition, Liberal House leader Tony Valeri offers a deal to Conservative House leader Jay Hill that will allow the finance committee to reject the proposal.

Controlled substance. Gimme a break, like CO2 is similar to cocaine. What have the Lieberals been smoking?

April 13: The federal government announces details of its Kyoto implementation plan, which revamps the plan it put in place almost three years earlier. The government pledges $10 billion to cut greenhouse gases by 270 megatonnes a year by 2008-2012. The plan relaxes emission targets for large industrial polluters.

There is their biggest mistake

April 14: Environmentalists say parts of Ottawa's new plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will be good for the Atlantic region. The Atlantic chapter of the Sierra Club of Canada says promoting the use of alternative energy sources is ideal because Atlantic Canada has a high wind potential. But they're disappointed with the targets set for large polluters. Large companies create almost half of the country's emissions, but they are only required to reduce them by about 14 per cent.

See, no consistency.

A Yukon environmental group says federal plans fall far short of what's needed. The Yukon Conservation Society says the government is only promising to consult with large firms that produce about 50 per cent of Canada's greenhouse gas emissions, rather than force them to cut their CO2 production.

I know they smoke too much weed. They can hug 2 trees at the same time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephane_Dion
..."Canada's poor Kyoto implementation record did not prevent Dion from earning high praise for his work chairing the U.N. Climate Change summit (COP 11/MOP 1) in Montreal in 2005. [36] Later, when Dion's record as environment minister was under scrutiny in the closing days of the Liberal leadership campaign, former Sierra Club of Canada director and current leader of the Green Party of Canada Elizabeth May came to his defence, calling him a "very very good environment minister."[37]

Poor doesn't or shouldn't earn any praise. May is full of hot air.

So would you like to reconsider your earlier statement: "Don't forget the current Lieberal Leacher Dion was Enironment minister for 17 months ... he didn't even have a clean air plan , just Toss the word Koyoto around and diss the Americans...".

NO

The windbags at the Sierra Club and others are hypocrites. They can jet set around the world, like GreenPeace does, going to all kinds of events, but don't consider that their actions are contributing to the very problem they are fighting.