Guns and crime
- Thread starter Master Muse
- Start date
J
Jay_toronto
Of Yanks and Canucks
Master Muse:
I don't have a problem with the war in Afghanistan, in fact I support it. Had Bush Sr and Clinton not left the country to the not-so tender mercies of Pakistan, the World Trade Centre would still be standing, today.
I resent Challenger's implication that Canadians are pussies. Nothing could be further from the truth! In WWI,we were slugging in the trenches and winning significant battles while the USA remained neutral. In WWII, you had Bataan, we had Hong Kong. And, there's nothing in American military history like the suicide raid on Dieppe. So cut Canada some slack, we are not the enemy.
I used the "Bouncing Betty" analogy to rebuke Challenger's cock of the block routine. It's a Viet Min booby trap that, when stepped on, sends up an explosive waist high. I was told about it from the American branch of my family, which has two Nam vets within it.
Aldo
Master Muse:
I don't have a problem with the war in Afghanistan, in fact I support it. Had Bush Sr and Clinton not left the country to the not-so tender mercies of Pakistan, the World Trade Centre would still be standing, today.
I resent Challenger's implication that Canadians are pussies. Nothing could be further from the truth! In WWI,we were slugging in the trenches and winning significant battles while the USA remained neutral. In WWII, you had Bataan, we had Hong Kong. And, there's nothing in American military history like the suicide raid on Dieppe. So cut Canada some slack, we are not the enemy.
I used the "Bouncing Betty" analogy to rebuke Challenger's cock of the block routine. It's a Viet Min booby trap that, when stepped on, sends up an explosive waist high. I was told about it from the American branch of my family, which has two Nam vets within it.
Aldo
Guns & Crime
Dear Mr. Kirk: (rhymes with ?)
The "sanctimonious American (capital A to you) crap " is a sure sign you have no argument. I have no problem with one taking issue but when the response reaches the level of your cheap jingoism, you've simply disqualified yourself from serious consideration. You might read the amendment below; certainly your post shows ignorance of what it says and how it is applied.
Further, you should learn something about handguns; there are no other types of handguns than semi-automatic. One trigger pull equals one round. That's semi-automatic. Virtually every non-military rifle is the same: one trigger pull, one round. An automatic handgun would be impossible to use with accuracy; they're tough enough to use with precision. Filing down the sear gets you one blast, no second chance and you better be right on top of the target. Automatic weapons - machine guns e.g., have to be sandbagged and heavy to keep stable from the kick of the explosion in the chamber and the action of the bolt.
For those Canadians who've never read the Second Amendment and I can't think of why you should), here it is in its entirety, one single sentence:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
There are 27 amendments to the original U.S. Constitution. The first ten - known as The Bill of Rights - were added en masse (see Kirk, we all speak French) on 15 December 1791 (some of us even speak English). The reason for the Bill of Rights was that the Founders determined that the Constitution was not strong enough in protecting the People from the Government. Thus, after free speech and religion, they kept the government from confiscating or precluding the People from having weapons. This has been interpreted as allowing reasonable registration and nobody in the U.S. has been allowed a machine gun or other automatic weapon since the mid-1920s. They were popular around Chicago then.
As to your French, well, of course I understand. I had a home in Paris for some 7 years. Mengez (menger?) must be Quebecois as it's not a French verb. However, the sense is clear. Crude, Kirk, simply crude. And not much of an argument.
Dear Mr. Kirk: (rhymes with ?)
The "sanctimonious American (capital A to you) crap " is a sure sign you have no argument. I have no problem with one taking issue but when the response reaches the level of your cheap jingoism, you've simply disqualified yourself from serious consideration. You might read the amendment below; certainly your post shows ignorance of what it says and how it is applied.
Further, you should learn something about handguns; there are no other types of handguns than semi-automatic. One trigger pull equals one round. That's semi-automatic. Virtually every non-military rifle is the same: one trigger pull, one round. An automatic handgun would be impossible to use with accuracy; they're tough enough to use with precision. Filing down the sear gets you one blast, no second chance and you better be right on top of the target. Automatic weapons - machine guns e.g., have to be sandbagged and heavy to keep stable from the kick of the explosion in the chamber and the action of the bolt.
For those Canadians who've never read the Second Amendment and I can't think of why you should), here it is in its entirety, one single sentence:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
There are 27 amendments to the original U.S. Constitution. The first ten - known as The Bill of Rights - were added en masse (see Kirk, we all speak French) on 15 December 1791 (some of us even speak English). The reason for the Bill of Rights was that the Founders determined that the Constitution was not strong enough in protecting the People from the Government. Thus, after free speech and religion, they kept the government from confiscating or precluding the People from having weapons. This has been interpreted as allowing reasonable registration and nobody in the U.S. has been allowed a machine gun or other automatic weapon since the mid-1920s. They were popular around Chicago then.
As to your French, well, of course I understand. I had a home in Paris for some 7 years. Mengez (menger?) must be Quebecois as it's not a French verb. However, the sense is clear. Crude, Kirk, simply crude. And not much of an argument.
Gunsville USA
Yeah. Ya gotta love the militia movement in the US. They seem to be using the right to bear arms to wage armed conflict with the ATF. Seems to me a few innocent bystanders got blown away in these shootouts, but a little chaos must be the price of freedom, right. You'd think after McVeigh all this gun-shit would go away, but I guess Sept 11 got everybody's trigger finger itchy again.
The US today is able to overthrow any country anywhere without paying much of a price. We are only "under the umbrella" to the extent that the US needs our resources.
Americans have to be armed to the teeth, there are so many unregistered weapons floating around that it's everyman for himself. These guns may be useful in mowing down your fellow citizens, but the idea that a bunch of yahoos with handguns is
going to be able to control the US government should it
become opressive is a pipedream.
I'd suggest investing in voting machines that work rather than yet more guns.
BTW semi-automatic weapons are apparently easily converted to full automatic, so the auto weapons ban is just window-dressing.
Yeah. Ya gotta love the militia movement in the US. They seem to be using the right to bear arms to wage armed conflict with the ATF. Seems to me a few innocent bystanders got blown away in these shootouts, but a little chaos must be the price of freedom, right. You'd think after McVeigh all this gun-shit would go away, but I guess Sept 11 got everybody's trigger finger itchy again.
The US today is able to overthrow any country anywhere without paying much of a price. We are only "under the umbrella" to the extent that the US needs our resources.
Americans have to be armed to the teeth, there are so many unregistered weapons floating around that it's everyman for himself. These guns may be useful in mowing down your fellow citizens, but the idea that a bunch of yahoos with handguns is
going to be able to control the US government should it
become opressive is a pipedream.
I'd suggest investing in voting machines that work rather than yet more guns.
BTW semi-automatic weapons are apparently easily converted to full automatic, so the auto weapons ban is just window-dressing.
Re: Guns & Crime
Funny, when i read your second amendment, i read from start to finish. When i do so, my take on it is that it allows for "states" to have militias, which they did quite a bit back then.
(Not to be confused with the more whacked out militias you guys have today like the michigan militia. You know, tim mcveigh's friends. The guys that distrust the american gov't so much, they decided to blow up a federal gov't building in Oklahoma and kill a few hundred poor slobs just trying to make a living and their kids in day care.)
If the "founding fathers" wanted to guarantee gun ownership, why didn't they merely write, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." It would have been so much more straight forward now wouldn't it.
The gun lobby tends to read either backwards, or focus on only that one aspect of the second ammendment.
The "founding fathers" were not pros, nor were they infallible. In fact, one of the strengths of the american consitution is that it can be ammended, mind you, you can never get enough agreement to do it. Then again, wasn't thomas jefferson a founding father?
Why yes he was, in fact, he wrote the bulk of the constitution didn't he. Ooopps, and he was a paedophile on the side too wasn't he now. Great, just great. I heard he kind of liked having sex with 12 year old slave girls he owned. What was her name now???, hmmmm, wait, it's coming to me, yes!, it was Sally Hemmings wasn't it.
Nice....
What a role model.
As to my french, my comments were directed at your statement which inferred that if it wasn't for good ole uncle sam, we'd all be speaking russian or worse, quebecois.
As a person from ontario, i take offense at your slight aimed at my quebec brothers.
I am sorry that I told you to mangez (thanks for correcting my typo) du la merde, i was merely quoting Pierre E. Trudeau. What did nixon (another great american) call old pierre, yeah that was it, "that asshole up north"
I find the american belief that they are somehow responsible for the freedom of Canada most amusing, especially considering that the only country to ever attack this country is your country.
I guess you have been brainwashed by your military leaders that you need the biggest military budget in the world, no, in fact, you need a military budget bigger than EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD COMBINED. And now you are spending 14% more this year in the wake of 911 on more military hardware. Like that will stop future terrorism. Why not spend that money on foreign aid and education in the countries that international terrorism germinates in due to ignorance and lack of oportunity.
Why not try and change your image from that of international oppressor to international educator. (And i am not saying that america is an international oppressor, i don't think that they are, what i am saying is that they are "perceived" as such by much of the world.)
The truth of the matter is that i like americans just fine, i just laugh at the "we are the reason you exist" attitude. This attitude that so many americans have is why you get into trouble so much in the rest of the world. But that's another story.
You can have your toy guns and whatever else you feel the need to own, it really doesn't interest me. I think you would have a hard time drumming up support for gun ownership rights here in canada. It's frankly not an issue here, or in just about any other G-8 country in the world. Only in the us do they care about legislating the right to own guns and legislating the ban on the sale of dildos.
oh brother
Ah friend muse......Master Muse said:
Funny, when i read your second amendment, i read from start to finish. When i do so, my take on it is that it allows for "states" to have militias, which they did quite a bit back then.
(Not to be confused with the more whacked out militias you guys have today like the michigan militia. You know, tim mcveigh's friends. The guys that distrust the american gov't so much, they decided to blow up a federal gov't building in Oklahoma and kill a few hundred poor slobs just trying to make a living and their kids in day care.)
If the "founding fathers" wanted to guarantee gun ownership, why didn't they merely write, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." It would have been so much more straight forward now wouldn't it.
The gun lobby tends to read either backwards, or focus on only that one aspect of the second ammendment.
The "founding fathers" were not pros, nor were they infallible. In fact, one of the strengths of the american consitution is that it can be ammended, mind you, you can never get enough agreement to do it. Then again, wasn't thomas jefferson a founding father?
Why yes he was, in fact, he wrote the bulk of the constitution didn't he. Ooopps, and he was a paedophile on the side too wasn't he now. Great, just great. I heard he kind of liked having sex with 12 year old slave girls he owned. What was her name now???, hmmmm, wait, it's coming to me, yes!, it was Sally Hemmings wasn't it.
Nice....
What a role model.
As to my french, my comments were directed at your statement which inferred that if it wasn't for good ole uncle sam, we'd all be speaking russian or worse, quebecois.
As a person from ontario, i take offense at your slight aimed at my quebec brothers.
I am sorry that I told you to mangez (thanks for correcting my typo) du la merde, i was merely quoting Pierre E. Trudeau. What did nixon (another great american) call old pierre, yeah that was it, "that asshole up north"
I find the american belief that they are somehow responsible for the freedom of Canada most amusing, especially considering that the only country to ever attack this country is your country.
I guess you have been brainwashed by your military leaders that you need the biggest military budget in the world, no, in fact, you need a military budget bigger than EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD COMBINED. And now you are spending 14% more this year in the wake of 911 on more military hardware. Like that will stop future terrorism. Why not spend that money on foreign aid and education in the countries that international terrorism germinates in due to ignorance and lack of oportunity.
Why not try and change your image from that of international oppressor to international educator. (And i am not saying that america is an international oppressor, i don't think that they are, what i am saying is that they are "perceived" as such by much of the world.)
The truth of the matter is that i like americans just fine, i just laugh at the "we are the reason you exist" attitude. This attitude that so many americans have is why you get into trouble so much in the rest of the world. But that's another story.
You can have your toy guns and whatever else you feel the need to own, it really doesn't interest me. I think you would have a hard time drumming up support for gun ownership rights here in canada. It's frankly not an issue here, or in just about any other G-8 country in the world. Only in the us do they care about legislating the right to own guns and legislating the ban on the sale of dildos.
oh brother
Last edited:
It took a while but....
This thread has evolved nicely from an exchange of ideas and information to an exchange of vitriol. Less light and more heat. Oh yeah, gotta love that. A few more postings and perhaps a hockey game will break out.
vvv
This thread has evolved nicely from an exchange of ideas and information to an exchange of vitriol. Less light and more heat. Oh yeah, gotta love that. A few more postings and perhaps a hockey game will break out.
vvv
Yeah, what vvv said,
and btw,
'inferred' means how you take it.
'imply' means how you intend it.
Let's maintain some standards around here
and btw,
'inferred' means how you take it.
'imply' means how you intend it.
Let's maintain some standards around here
Guns & Crime
Kirk
You are truly slime.
There was a recent furor over DNA, Thomas Jefferson and Sally hemmings having to do with who fathered some chhild over 200 years ago. When the answer finally came out from the laboratory it was totally different from the slanderous sstatement you have alleged. (Yes, I know one cannot legally defame the dead.)
I have never heard even the worst slanderes here allege that Ms. Hemmings was 12 years old or thereabouts.
As to your analysis of the amendment's language, it is puerile and inconsistent with the interpretation of lawrence Tribe, the Harvard liberal lawyer. (he was one of Gore's top two and argued the eleection issue for Gore before the Supreme Court). It is also at odds with the official federal position that the amendment is construed in favor of individual rights, subject to reasonable licensing.
Kirk
You are truly slime.
There was a recent furor over DNA, Thomas Jefferson and Sally hemmings having to do with who fathered some chhild over 200 years ago. When the answer finally came out from the laboratory it was totally different from the slanderous sstatement you have alleged. (Yes, I know one cannot legally defame the dead.)
I have never heard even the worst slanderes here allege that Ms. Hemmings was 12 years old or thereabouts.
As to your analysis of the amendment's language, it is puerile and inconsistent with the interpretation of lawrence Tribe, the Harvard liberal lawyer. (he was one of Gore's top two and argued the eleection issue for Gore before the Supreme Court). It is also at odds with the official federal position that the amendment is construed in favor of individual rights, subject to reasonable licensing.
Thanks muse.
I guess we were watching different documentaries.
The one i saw, the hundreds of black folks on the show could indeed trace their line back to tommy jefferson. And yes, they did DNA testing to boot. It was a match.
It's a well known fact that old tommy liked the slave girls.
I guess the thing that bugs americans the most about canadians is we don't want to be americans.
I think americans truly see themselves as the greatest society in the world and the american way is the only way.
Here you have a bunch of canadians saying, "that's cool if you like it, but i don't, and i don't want to be part of your country, nor do i think that you have the best form of everything"
Sure there are some things about the states that are great, and for the most part, you are ok neighbours, but there are a lot of things that are totally screwed up.
Americans have been brainwashed to think that everyone else in the world wants to be just like them, or better yet be part of them.
It just isn't the case, and all your wind will never convince me your are even remotely correct.
cheers
james "the slime" kirk
I guess we were watching different documentaries.
The one i saw, the hundreds of black folks on the show could indeed trace their line back to tommy jefferson. And yes, they did DNA testing to boot. It was a match.
It's a well known fact that old tommy liked the slave girls.
I guess the thing that bugs americans the most about canadians is we don't want to be americans.
I think americans truly see themselves as the greatest society in the world and the american way is the only way.
Here you have a bunch of canadians saying, "that's cool if you like it, but i don't, and i don't want to be part of your country, nor do i think that you have the best form of everything"
Sure there are some things about the states that are great, and for the most part, you are ok neighbours, but there are a lot of things that are totally screwed up.
Americans have been brainwashed to think that everyone else in the world wants to be just like them, or better yet be part of them.
It just isn't the case, and all your wind will never convince me your are even remotely correct.
cheers
james "the slime" kirk
J
Jay_toronto
Hey Tiberius:
As possibly my favorite American, God rest his soul, once wrote:
I'm grossed and perverted.
I'm obsessed and deranged.
I'm the slime oozing out of your tv set.
Aldo - The Roman Celt who's movin to Alberta soon, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.
As possibly my favorite American, God rest his soul, once wrote:
I'm grossed and perverted.
I'm obsessed and deranged.
I'm the slime oozing out of your tv set.
Aldo - The Roman Celt who's movin to Alberta soon, gonna be a dental floss tycoon.
