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Gunfire on Parliament Hill another soldier shot

wilbur

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Jan 19, 2004
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According to friends who spent part of their lives in Saudi Arabia, Saudi citizens don't pay income taxes nor do any work. Almost all labor is performed by imported Pakistanis and Filipinos who are treated like crap. Western professionals live in enclaves.
It has changed a bit over time. There is not that much money as before and there are fewer foreign workers, so more of them have to work. In any case, a lot of them pretend to work in their very neat offices while the Pakistani clerk in the back room works like a dog.

I don't know about now but there were a lot of Filippinas working as domestics. A lot of them got raped by the man of the house, without them being able to do anything about it. If they complained, they had to face the Sharia Court, and they could be accused in return of having enticed the man or being accused of adultery themselves, by the mere fact of admitting that sex took place, although forced sex that was impossible to prove. It was not unknown for complainants of rape to be sentenced to lashes. Then, there's the one way ticket back home and no more money for the family in the Philippines. In Sharia law, female testimony has less weight than a man's, not to mention that Filippinos are Catholics. The required proof for adultery is 4 independent witnesses and it's virtually impossible to get that, unless they pull enough nails and leave you in jail long enough to get a confession. Police are also reluctant to lay charges against a Saudi. I felt sorry for Filippinos over there. They are hard workers, like to have fun and despite the hardships, always pleasant to deal with.

The expatriates who have the hardest time in Saudi Arabia are other Muslims. A Christian expatriate can always be excused for not knowing Saudi/Islamic law. But there is not such excuse for an expatriate Muslim. Saudis, BTW, are hated by much of the Muslim world for their arrogance and hypocrisy , maybe except by Kuwaitis, who are almost as arrogant as the average Saudi.
 

jazzpig

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Jul 17, 2003
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According to friends who spent part of their lives in Saudi Arabia, Saudi citizens don't pay income taxes nor do any work. Almost all labor is performed by imported Pakistanis and Filipinos who are treated like crap. Western professionals live in enclaves.
Sounds like a Star Trek story line.
 

SkyRider

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Mar 31, 2009
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A Christian expatriate can always be excused for not knowing Saudi/Islamic law.
I have friends who are in the telecom industry who went to Saudi Arabia and they said they lived in enclaves with other Westerners (where alcohol was tolerated). I also went there myself on a 2-3 year contract. Great pay and no income taxes. This is several years ago but I assume not much has changed since.

BTW: Saudi Arabia and Kuwait are "American Protectorates", just like the Philippines before they threw the Americans out. Now the Philippines want American help in their territorial dispute with the PRC. Of course, the Philippines doesn't have (or only have very little) oil.
 

SkyRider

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Mar 31, 2009
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Over the past several days, I've seen "real" Muslims say on TV (CNN, etc.) that some or all of these "Muslim converts" and/or ISIS are "not real" Muslims.

Question: Who decides who is a "real" Muslim?
 

GPIDEAL

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Jun 27, 2010
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Over the past several days, I've seen "real" Muslims say on TV (CNN, etc.) that some or all of these "Muslim converts" and/or ISIS are "not real" Muslims.

Question: Who decides who is a "real" Muslim?
I think they mean these perps are recent converts but only for the sake of convenience to join ISIL or be influenced by same, and as an outlet for their frustration/aggression against western society.
 

SkyRider

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I think they mean these perps are recent converts but only for the sake of convenience to join ISIL or be influenced by same, and as an outlet for their frustration/aggression against western society.
Yes, but who decides who is a real Muslim? Is there some kind of "certification" process? Also, how does one "convert" to Islam? Do you need to get circumsized? Can anybody just stand up and say they are a Muslim?

The imam at the Vancouver mosque said Bibeau was not a "real" Muslim and so he was kicked off the premises (although he later returned with a stolen key).
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Yea very clearly a lever-action rifle (long magazine tube under the barrel, and the obvious revolver-style hammer)

Old-school rifle, launching an extremely potent slug. Unmistakably a hunting rifle. The utterly furthest thing from the "assault" weapons and handguns that get demonized and banned. Goes to show, tis' the man does the killing, not the gun (or whatever other tool used.)

What a douchebag. Dead and gone, and good goddamn riddance.

Well, it's a good thing he couldn't get his hands on the kind of automatic weapons one could so easily purchase in the USA. He was reduced to using a weapon that was designed in 1890 I believe. He could have killed A LOT more people if he wasn't using such an antique gun I'm sure.

In fact, when you listen to the video that the reporter for the Globe and Mail took, you can hear that the first shot sounds like a cannon going off. And then it's followed by a series of completely different sounding shots. More like bang bang bang.

My guess is that the first shot was the madman's rifle and what followed was the RCMP and the Sergeant of Arms shooting at him.

He only had time with his ancient gun to get one shot off.

Now imagine if he could have legally got his hands on an Uzi.


You can clearly hear a massive shot going off at 18 seconds (Fuck head's rifle) and is followed by numerous completely different sounding shots when the officers killed the hell out of him. (Thank Christ for that by the way.)
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
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Well, it's a good thing he couldn't get his hands on the kind of automatic weapons one could so easily purchase in the USA. He was reduced to using a weapon that was designed in 1890 I believe. He could have killed A LOT more people if he wasn't using such an antique gun I'm sure.

In fact, when you listen to the video that the reporter for the Globe and Mail took, you can hear that the first shot sounds like a cannon going off. And then it's followed by a series of completely different sounding shots. More like bang bang bang.

My guess is that the first shot was the madman's rifle and what followed was the RCMP and the Sergeant of Arms shooting at him.

He only had time with his ancient gun to get one shot off.

Now imagine if he could have legally got his hands on an Uzi.


You can clearly hear a massive shot going off at 18 seconds (Fuck head's rifle) and is followed by numerous completely different sounding shots when the officers killed the hell out of him. (Thank Christ for that by the way.)

You're probably right as to the big bang followed by multiple pops (return fire).

I thought he was using a Winchester with lever-action? (He took two shots at poor Nathan Cirillo). I doubt it was a musket.
 

GPIDEAL

Prolific User
Jun 27, 2010
23,359
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Yes, but who decides who is a real Muslim? Is there some kind of "certification" process? Also, how does one "convert" to Islam? Do you need to get circumsized? Can anybody just stand up and say they are a Muslim?

The imam at the Vancouver mosque said Bibeau was not a "real" Muslim and so he was kicked off the premises (although he later returned with a stolen key).
Good question. Probably not much, but I'm sure Google has an answer for you. (IIRC, he had converted some time ago, so not very recent).
 

sircumsalot69

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Jul 18, 2011
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Another thing media got wrong, he used a 30.30 Winchester rifle and not a shotgun
Unfortunately an eyewitness who was interviewed shortly after the incident said it was a shotgun, so they assumed he knew what he was talking about...and at that point the media could careless about fact checking, they want the scoop! I saw the clip on CBC.
 

SkyRider

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Mar 31, 2009
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http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/204/

"For those interested, converting to Islam is easy.
Becoming a Muslim is a simple and easy process. All that a person has to do is to say a sentence called the Testimony of Faith (Shahada), which is pronounced as:
I testify “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammad rasoolu Allah.
 

nobody123

serial onanist
Feb 1, 2012
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nowhere
it's the no true scotsman fallacy
Or, you know, it's the "he tried to convert but the Imam thought he was pretty fucked up and doing it for the wrong reasons so they turned him away" non-fallacy. But don't let the facts get in the way of your thoughts or anything.
 

tegR

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Jun 14, 2008
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You're probably right as to the big bang followed by multiple pops (return fire).

I thought he was using a Winchester with lever-action? (He took two shots at poor Nathan Cirillo). I doubt it was a musket.
No certainly no musket. Winchester lever-action is however a late 1800's design.

Terrifyingly effective though - it was designed as a rapid-fire (for a manual action) combat rifle and fires a massive high velocity bullet. No body armour in current use save perhaps that prototype dragon-skin stuff, or if you were very lucky the heavy ceramic plate inserts, would have any chance of stopping a 30.30 round. Big tube magazine holds usually 10-15 rounds depending on the model and if you know what you're doing you can throw the whole load down range in under a minute.

Historically, military forces moved away from the lever action only because the bolt action offered the ability to be efficiently operated while lying prone, and the option for detachable box magazines. Comparable rate of fire in a battle-caliber rifle did not see the field again until the semi-auto M1 Garand, although some of the Brits trained to be almost comparably fast with their Enfields. The Winchester is an old ass gun, but not something to be laughed at for sure. In the hands of a competent shooter, I'd be much more terrified to shoot it out against this rifle than a cheap toy lead-hose like the uzi or mac 11 etc type machine pistol. I would certainly not care to fight the guy with my pistol. Hat is off to Kevin Vickers for getting right up close and personal against a guy carrying this cowboy cannon and putting him down with a handgun.
 

cunning linguist

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Oct 13, 2009
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Well, it's a good thing he couldn't get his hands on the kind of automatic weapons one could so easily purchase in the USA. He was reduced to using a weapon that was designed in 1890 I believe. He could have killed A LOT more people if he wasn't using such an antique gun I'm sure.

In fact, when you listen to the video that the reporter for the Globe and Mail took, you can hear that the first shot sounds like a cannon going off. And then it's followed by a series of completely different sounding shots. More like bang bang bang.

My guess is that the first shot was the madman's rifle and what followed was the RCMP and the Sergeant of Arms shooting at him.

He only had time with his ancient gun to get one shot off.

Now imagine if he could have legally got his hands on an Uzi.


You can clearly hear a massive shot going off at 18 seconds (Fuck head's rifle) and is followed by numerous completely different sounding shots when the officers killed the hell out of him. (Thank Christ for that by the way.)
Fully automatics are Class III firearms in the United States and HEAVILY regulated. I wish people would do more research before speaking out of their asses.
 

Twister

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Aug 24, 2002
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Did he not have a wife?(or ex) I looked and can find only that he's survived by his mother and the boy.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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^ It is his (I believe) Paternal Aunt Natasha's hand Marus Cirillo is holding in the photograph four above.
 
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