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GTA puts a ban on plastic bags by 2013.

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,797
3,916
113
BTW before bottled water, we had drinking fountains, in all sorts of places, tax-paid and private
Sure, except we dont have drinking fountains anymore, smartypants

You cannot be serious. Your 'cure' for life threatening heatstroke being to "…grab refreshment" from a store, gave you away
Its actually your stupidity that gives you away, you old fart. Standard treatment for heatstroke is:

http://familydoctor.org/familydocto.../first-aid/heat-exhaustion-an-heatstroke.html

Drink plenty of water..... apply cool water to your skin
Did you read the part where it says "Drink plenty of water....apply cool water to your skin"??!!

To get back to bags, and the actual topic, here's the deal Phil: You want plastic bags, buy 'em. call up the Mayor and tell him rescinding the bag fee was stupid. But be polite and don't point out it was his bungling of that stupid measure that brought about the ban.

But don't demand we all pay a hidden tax so idiots can imagine they're double-bagging with free bags they then clog the waste stream with. Waste Not, and User Pay. Two good conservative maxims to live by
We already paid a 5 cents per bag tax, I didnt mind that, I just wish they'd leave the option available



Back on-topic. Lawsuit might be coming: http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1209128--plastic-bag-ban-mayor-rob-ford-says-lawsuit-coming?bn=1
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,797
3,916
113
You are currently aware that there will be times in the summer when it will be hot. Carry one of these re-usable re-fillable objects on those days. They last a long, long time, and the metal one is really good at keeping water cold. Use either a strap or caribiner so you don't have to hold in hand all the time.



Must I explain everything to you?!
Okay, so you dont like bottled water being sold in stores then I take it.

What about 7-UP, Pepsi, Mountain DEW...etc. They are basically filtered water with flavour added to them. Do you think if we're gonna get rid of bottled water we should also get rid of flavoured drinks??
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,629
2,515
113
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/1207836--toronto-s-bag-ban-makes-no-sense-and-although-mayor-rob-ford-opposes-it-he-s-largely-to-blame

As it says, the fact that there was no consultation with anyone before this went to a vote boggles my mind. Is this really how we want councillors to run the city?

They say "According to city hall’s statistics, plastic bag usage dropped by 53 per cent in Toronto following imposition of the fee — or about 242 million fewer bags each year." However, I doubt they've taken into account how many bags have been purchased in bulk (at less than 5 cents each I might add) skewing this number.

What’s got into Toronto city council? It usually attracts well-deserved criticism for compulsive dithering and needless delays. (Exhibit A: The debate over light rail.) So it’s downright jaw-dropping to find a majority, from across the political spectrum, breezily agreeing Wednesday evening to ban plastic shopping bags.

Their decision touches virtually every retailer and shopper in the city. Yet councillors voted without an updated report from staff, without public consultation, without talking to businesses they were about to affect, without analyzing environmental impacts, without a legal review, and with no advanced notice. As a result, of course, they got it wrong.

Forbidding merchants from selling or giving out thin plastic carrying bags, including biodegradable versions, doesn’t appear to make environmental sense. Paper bags that would replace them require more energy to produce and to transport, and can’t be put to use in as many alternate ways.

The legal status of prohibiting bags is uncertain, with opinions differing on whether Toronto has the power impose this change. Having the ban come into force on Jan. 1 next year leaves retailers relatively little time to prepare. And it’s sure to encourage consumer hoarding — especially since, as of July 1, merchants will no longer be required to charge a nickel for these bags.

Mayor Rob Ford predictably blamed “NDPers, used to the gravy train,” for this “ludicrous” mess. But the bag ban was put forward by Councillor David Shiner, one of Ford’s council allies, and backed by several members of his hand-picked executive committee.

“We have to get rid of some of these councillors,” Ford told AM640’s John Oakley Thursday morning. He even blamed Toronto residents for failing to rise up and protest city council’s mistakes. “It’s the people’s fault,” Ford said. “People are just sitting back listening.”

In fact, this only happened because Ford put plastic bags on city council’s agenda in the first place. His goal was to trash a mandatory five-cent fee for plastic bags that had been instituted in 2009 and which had produced tangible results. According to city hall’s statistics, plastic bag usage dropped by 53 per cent in Toronto following imposition of the fee — or about 242 million fewer bags each year. That’s a lot of litter.

Ford managed to sabotage this progress by assembling enough votes to kill the nickel bag fee. But the law of unintended consequences kicked in. Council went even further, rashly voting to eliminate plastic bags all together.

That outcome seems worthy of a comedy routine. As a result of Ford’s successful crusade against the “bag tax,” there won’t be a fee for plastic shopping bags — but no bags either. Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

Reversing the ban won’t be easy. Ford noted that reopening the issue requires the support of two-thirds of city council, and “that’s a challenge.” The ban will be written up in the form of a bylaw in the fall and there may, at least, be public hearings before then.

It should never have come to this. But there’s a lesson here for jaded pundits and the public alike: Be careful in wishing for a fast-moving, bold and decisive city council. You might just get it.
 

oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
11
38
Sure, except we dont have drinking fountains anymore, smartypants
And some of us cant admit that anything previous generations did could be better.
Its actually your stupidity that gives you away, you old fart.
Back at ya, gopher breathed frog-face
Standard treatment for heatstroke is:
http://familydoctor.org/familydocto.../first-aid/heat-exhaustion-an-heatstroke.html
Did you read the part where it says "Drink plenty of water....apply cool water to your skin"??!!
Couldn`t find the part that required bottled, not tap water, a nearby store, or described the treatment as "…grabbing refreshment". The reference just support the irrelevance of your original statement, poopypants. Say, I`m getting attached to your style of debate. Bottom line: Neither availability of bottled water, nor any imagined ban has anything to do with heatstroke. Best avoided in the first place, although that requires minimal intelligence. I shall resist temptation, but that was clearly lacking in your hypothetical, McNasty.


We already paid a 5 cents per bag tax, I didnt mind that, I just wish they`d leave the option available
On that we agree, it was the Mayor`s idea to get rid of it and his bungling of that wrong-headed move that gave us the ban.



When it`s a reliable source, I`ll take note. You might want to check a Jennifer_ post in the thread on that topic, referencing the legal opinion given during the debate and take heart that those City lawyers we all pay for have already advised Council. I cannot imagine an anti-ban argument—other than an obscure technicality—that would prevail.

But I would say a legal precedent that overturned this ban, because Council must only do what is best for the environment, would be a good thing.

May I call you angel-drawers?
 

fuji

Banned
Jan 31, 2005
80,012
7
0
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
is.gd
IT says a LOT about Ford's mayorship that he is so completely out of touch with council that he does not know what they're going to do or how they are going to vote. Good politicians show up at votes already knowing the outcome, because they've spoken with others in advance to try and line up support. If a good politician is going to lose a vote, he or she will try and defer the vote until later until a compromise can be worked out. Failing that, they'll telegraph to the public in advance that they're going to lose, rather than show up and be made to look foolish. That Ford is repeatedly blindsided by council shows that he is simply not doing his job.

Especially since this motion was proposed by a councillor on the right, who is presumably otherwise a Ford ally.

It just goes to show that right now there is NO leadership in Toronto politics--certainly none coming from the Mayor. If council is behaving randomly and is directionless, that's because the Mayor isn't setting the agenda, isn't talking to people, isn't whipping votes.
 

Mervyn

New member
Dec 23, 2005
3,550
0
0
While cloth is best, I'd rather have a paper bag than biodegradable plastic any day. Biodegradable plastic can still cause damage while it decomposes.
 

simon482

internets icon
Feb 8, 2009
9,966
175
63
i am pretty sure i don't give a fuck about whether or not i can get a plastic bag at a store or not as much as i am annoyed about the fact that this is even being brought up as a topic when the city is in rough shape. the city is falling apart and they are talking about bags, i mean come the fuck on, talk about a waste of city council time.

as for the plastic bottles, i don't see a use for them in the day to day use of people home everyday but for me on the road, i grab a gallon jug every other day to keep with me in the truck and if i know i am going somewhere that is out in the middle of no where i make sure to have 2 just in case.
 

Mervyn

New member
Dec 23, 2005
3,550
0
0
i am pretty sure i don't give a fuck about whether or not i can get a plastic bag at a store or not as much as i am annoyed about the fact that this is even being brought up as a topic when the city is in rough shape. the city is falling apart and they are talking about bags, i mean come the fuck on, talk about a waste of city council time.

as for the plastic bottles, i don't see a use for them in the day to day use of people home everyday but for me on the road, i grab a gallon jug every other day to keep with me in the truck and if i know i am going somewhere that is out in the middle of no where i make sure to have 2 just in case.
We know what truck drivers do with empty bottles ...
 

simon482

internets icon
Feb 8, 2009
9,966
175
63
They pee in them I assume


I dunno for sure though :confused:
2 in the morning you want to get dressed and go for a walk to the truck stop and pee inside then walk back, get undressed and try to get comfy and back to sleep? yeah we do. the good drivers empty them and throw the bottle out in the morning. the shit head fuck ass's just pitch the whole thing out the window. i really dislike them cuz i don't want to see a bottle of piss on the side of the road and it makes us all look bad.
 

MattRoxx

Call me anti-fascist
Nov 13, 2011
6,753
2
0
I get around.
i am pretty sure i don't give a fuck about whether or not i can get a plastic bag at a store or not as much as i am annoyed about the fact that this is even being brought up as a topic when the city is in rough shape. the city is falling apart and they are talking about bags, i mean come the fuck on, talk about a waste of city council time.

as for the plastic bottles, i don't see a use for them in the day to day use of people home everyday but for me on the road, i grab a gallon jug every other day to keep with me in the truck and if i know i am going somewhere that is out in the middle of no where i make sure to have 2 just in case.
The city is not in rough shape. What is "falling apart"? Why do you think this, have you been reading The Sun?!
The only rough thing about Toronto is Ford's awful handling of council.
There's construction going on everywhere and there is a budget surplus of over $250 million.
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/lo...plus-2011-120427/20120427/?hub=TorontoNewHome


New article in the Huffington Post: There's Nothing "Extremist" About Banning Plastic Bags
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/mariah...plastic-bags_b_1604667.html?utm_hp_ref=canada
 
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