GTA puts a ban on plastic bags by 2013.

[Stoo]

And Toronto is also the city known for taking recyclables and combining them with garbage and tossing it all in the dump which is in someone else's community.

I don't actually live in Toronto, but are you guys still trucking your garbage off to Michigan? That still makes me scratch my head...

As for dog poop etc... There will be a need for plastic bags for some time, until there are viable alternatives. Scooping poop into a paper bag isn't going to cut it. Putting it in your pocket isn't going to work either. This is one of the advantages of the ban... "Somebody" out there will come out with an alternative that is environmentally sound, just like someone will eventually come up with an alternative to gas-burning engines. It's inevitable...

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Paper bags are more harmful than plastic. Wrong. Brown paper grocery bags are typically made from recycled paper. Even the ones that aren't, could be made from FSC certified paper. FSC means that the paper has come from managed forests... junk trees grown and harvested and replanted every 7 - 10 years to make paper. These trees are grown like any other agricultural crop. "Real" trees are much too valuable for lumber to use for paper

Yeah, and please tell me champ how the heck are you gonna recycle a paper bag after its been used as a garbage bag, and its sitting in a landfill??!!

There is ample scientific evidence to suggest that plastic NEVER degrades. The item might break down, but the base material ultimately breaks down into small beads of plastic material. This plastic leaches into groundwater and is found in the tissue of most birds, fish, and I suspect domestic farm animals and humans too. (I'd try to link some references, but I gotta get to work... maybe later). There is a belief in the scientific community that every piece of plastic ever made is still in existence (although some has been recycled of course!). This plastic material may or may not have adverse health effects... hard to imagine it doesn't

So long as those plastic garbage bags are mainly confined to one large garbage dump that takes up a few square miles, I dont see a huge problem. The birds in that area are just shit out of luck.

We have to many flying rats anyways

 

[oldjones]

I don't actually live in Toronto, but are you guys still trucking your garbage off to Michigan? That still makes me scratch my head...

You can stop. We haven't done that for years and years.

As for dog poop etc... There will be a need for plastic bags for some time, until there are viable alternatives. Scooping poop into a paper bag isn't going to cut it. Putting it in your pocket isn't going to work either. This is one of the advantages of the ban... "Somebody" out there will come out with an alternative that is environmentally sound, just like someone will eventually come up with an alternative to gas-burning engines. It's inevitable...

Plastic bags aren't being banned. Giving them away to take your purchases home is. In my neighbourhood, the dogwalkers use little black bags they buy for the purpose, so they'll be less obvious when they drop them on the boulevard and walk away.

Buy as many bags as you want and use them as you wish. But in TO—don't be misled by the OP's inaccurate title—if you want to pretend bags are free, they won't be plastic after Jan1/13.

Unless we go back to the sensible requirement that consumers must buy each one they want.

 

[oldjones]

Yeah, and please tell me champ how the heck are you gonna recycle a paper bag after its been used as a garbage bag, and its sitting in a landfill??!!

The same way you'd recycle a used plastic bag from the same place, Phil. Do tell us just what you had in mind.

But if you're talking about the liner for your compostable kitchen waste pail, a paper bag will compost, plastic won't. Besides, no one's proposed a ban on bags you buy in bulk. Why ever anyone would buy great big garbage bags to line the garbage bin the city made you buy I cannot imagine. But paper will do just fine to replace those 'free' little bags in that bin if you really think you need them. And again, it'll compost.

No one here is competent or knowledgeable enough to determine the plastic vs. paper bag question, but it's beside the point. The very sensible fee had done an excellent job of reducing the tonnage of bags going into landfill and had almost entirely eliminated them as windblown eyesores. Except in the minds of idiots who still imagine bags were free, and resented having to buy what they wanted, the fee was producing a benefit for the entire City. All we really needed to do was add a condition to all business licenses that they post a large sign saying what they did with the money and keep a record to back it up, if the sign said they donated it.

It was moronic to propose a repeal and incompetent to mismanage it to get this result. But that's our Mayor.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The same way you'd recycle a used plastic bag from the same place, Phil. Do tell us just what you had in mind

I'm saying most paper bags used as garbage bags which will wind up at some landfill, at which point you cant recycle them anymore

But if you're talking about the liner for your compostable kitchen waste pail, a paper bag will compost, plastic won't. Besides, no one's proposed a ban on bags you buy in bulk. Why ever anyone would buy great big garbage bags to line the garbage bin the city made you buy I cannot imagine. But paper will do just fine to replace those 'free' little bags in that bin if you really think you need them. And again, it'll compost

I understand that, but so long as plastic garbage bags are mainly confined to one large landfill area, I dont really see the problem in those plastic bags not decomposing

 

[oldjones]

I'm saying most paper bags used as garbage bags which will wind up at some landfill, at which point you cant recycle them anymore.

I understand that, but so long as plastic garbage bags are mainly confined to one large landfill area, I dont really see the problem in those plastic bags not decomposing

Once either type is in the landfill it's beyond re-use or recycling. The point is to keep as much out of landfills as possible.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Once either type is in the landfill it's beyond re-use or recycling. The point is to keep as much out of landfills as possible

I think you're missing my point.

I think we should stick with plastic bags because most plastic bags are either recycled or they are used as garbage bags which end up in a landfill. Yes they wont decompose there, but so long as they are confined to a large landfill a few square miles large, I dont see a huge problem

 

[KBear]

... take a cloth bag. Take a backpack. .

Cloth bags need to be washed to kill off all the bacteria that will be growing in them. Has a study been done to compare the environmental impact of washing reusable bags, with plastic bags.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Cloth bags need to be washed to kill off all the bacteria that will be growing in them. Has a study been done to compare the environmental impact of washing reusable bags, with plastic bags

It would be ironic if some people contracted e-coli or flesh eating disease from dirty shopping bags and died, just so we could save a few birds

 

[OddSox]

I'm going to go against the popular opinion here with my "endorsement" of the ban. I think it shows real leadership and Council's decision will eventually be seen as being ahead of it's time... Here's why...

Wow - you're just as bad as city council - full of misinformation. For example, take a look at http://www.justfactsdaily.com/bans-on-plastic-bags-harm-the-environment

In 2011, the United Kingdom’s Environment Agency released a study that evaluated nine categories of environmental impacts caused by different types of supermarket bags. The study found that paper bags have a worse effect on the environment than plastic bags in all nine impact categories, which include global warming potential, abiotic depletion, acidification, eutrophication, human toxicity, fresh water aquatic ecotoxicity, marine aquatic ecotoxicity, terrestrial ecotoxicity, and photochemical oxidation.

Read further and you'll find that you need to re-use those cotton bags up to 170 times before they're as environmentally friendly as plastic, or that paper does NOT decompose in a landfill, and that washing those poly bags uses more energy every wash than is required to make the plastic bags in the first place.

 

[wetnose]

Wanna know what needs to get banned? Bottled water - now *that's* terrible for the environment, esp considering our tap water is one of the best in north america.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Wanna know what needs to get banned? Bottled water - now *that's* terrible for the environment, esp considering our tap water is one of the best in north america

Not sure if sarcastic

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Read further and you'll find that you need to re-use those cotton bags up to 170 times before they're as environmentally friendly as plastic, or that paper does NOT decompose in a landfill, and that washing those poly bags uses more energy every wash than is required to make the plastic bags in the first place

Dont tell a Lefty that, they wont be able to process that logic

 

[fuji]

Read further and you'll find that you need to re-use those cotton bags up to 170 times before they're as environmentally friendly as plastic, or that paper does NOT decompose in a landfill, and that washing those poly bags uses more energy every wash than is required to make the plastic bags in the first place.

You're not thinking this through properly. While you are entirely correct in your overall assessment of the environmental impacts, you've failed to understand how government works. The City of Toronto is not on the hook for the energy used in producing or cleaning non-plastic bags, and it is measured against metrics that ignore paper. Moreover, in pure dollar terms, it will save the city money as they pay for garbage disposal by VOLUME, and there will be less garbage to dispose. They will get to put out a report saying that *Toronto* has improved its environmental footprint as a result of this measure, and even saved some money to boot--and it will be true. That there are additional environmental impacts and costs incurred elsewhere, by other people or other cities, outside their remit--why would they care.

 

[buttercup]

You're right, that the key thing in garbage disposal is volume. However, if there is one article that has a small volume, it is a plastic bag. Didn't you notice, in the good old days when everyone had a receptacle in the kitchen into which you stuffed all your plastic bags, ready to be used to perform all sorts of tasks, that you could cram what amounted to an infinite number of bags into the receptacle.

If there's one product that is an ideal candidate to put into a landfill, it is plastic bags (especially if they can be re-used once or twice). They don't take up any space in the landfill, and nothing toxic ever leaches out of them. They cost nothing. They are worthless for recycling.

 

[Jennifer_]

Wanna know what needs to get banned? Bottled water - now *that's* terrible for the environment, esp considering our tap water is one of the best in north america.

I completely agree. It really upsets me to see the number of people toteing around their bottled water- buying cases of this crap while remaining totally ignorant by the negative impact it has on the environment.

Watch "Tapped" or "Blue Gold- world Water Wars" if you don't know why bottled water is bad for your health and bad for the environment...


I'm very happy council chose to make a progressive decision that is in our best interest.

We'll get used to it- considering I very rarely buy plastic bags now- the transition to an occasional paper bag won't bug me in the slightest.

Infact, after watching most of the council debate on Wednesday (ya I'm a geek), and being reminded of the negative impact on the environment and learning about the impact on the city's finances due to plastic bags- I'm making even more of an effort to cut down my use of plastic bags now instead of waiting until 2013.

In a time where libraries and social programs are in jeopardy- it sure doesn't make sense to ignore the financial benefits of a ban that we will adjust to (just pike the citizens in all the cities, states, and countries who already have a ban).

Sometimes the right thing isn't the easiest thing- I really think some people need to look a little beyond their own immediate wants and frankly laziness. The ban on bags is a very positive move for us all.

 

[fuji]

So long as retailers switch to paper I'm happy.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I completely agree. It really upsets me to see the number of people toteing around their bottled water- buying cases of this crap while remaining totally ignorant by the negative impact it has on the environment

Hey sweetheart, did you know plastic bottles have been around since the 70's, and back then they used products like 7-Up or Pepsi which had a 99% percent filtered water content.

So what difference does it make if we sell 100% bottled water today, or 7-UP which sells mostly bottled 99% water with a bit of flavour in it????

 

[Jennifer_]

Hey sweetheart, did you know plastic bottles have been around since the 70's, and back then they used products like 7-Up or Pepsi which had a 99% percent filtered water content.

So what difference does it make if we sell 100% bottled water today, or 7-UP which sells mostly bottled 99% water with a bit of flavour in it????

To Answer that is to pull the thread off-topic (plus I don't have time to make a list)

Just because something has been around for awhile, doesn't negate the product's harmful impact. (and bottled water has more than it's fair share of harmful impact

 

[GG2]

Isn't paper biodegradable and recyclable? When the government intervenes like it is to get rid of plastic bags, the free market no longer applies. So if we can't use plastic, who wouldn't opt for paper as one of several alternatives?