Got Fired From Work

[Keebler Elf]

It was pretty humiliating being paraded out with 2 security officers, and a manager for all to see, lol. The bad exit got me a little bitter.

That type of behaviour actually works to your advantage. If an employer humiliates an employee during the act of termination, it can result in what's known as a "bump-up" in the amount of termination pay that an employee can receive.

For example, an employee might be entitled to 8 weeks and have another 4 weeks tacked on if the employer substantially humiliated the employee during the act of termination. Being paraded in front of co-workers by security is a textbook example of such humiliation.

 

[Keebler Elf]

It has taken over a year, in 2 cases, to accumulate enough evidence of incompetence and poor attitude, to permit me to fire poor performers.

You're talking about performance management. That's a lot harder to dismiss for, especially when managers are notoriously bad at keeping accurate records and actually managing their employees. As you well know, it's very difficult to fire someone for poor performance. Not that it can't be done, but the manager usually changes or gives up (rightly or wrongly) rather than make the effort that is necessary.

The terminations I've seen are usually for something more serious than mere poor performance. We're talking violence in the workplace, fraud, criminal offenses, etc. The problem with trying to fire someone for poor performance is that it's usually gone on for years and years and years so it's kinda hard to justify why you've accepted the poor performance for so long but now all of a sudden it's a problem. Often the managers are just as guilty for not managing. And that's usually because people are promoted to management as a reward rather than for actually possessing manager (i.e., leadership) qualities. And when you do that, it's no wonder that managers either aren't able or aren't willing to manage properly.

This may sound like I'm siding with the poor performing employees, but IMO a manager who doesn't manage is just as guilty as an employee who doesn't perform. Both should be terminated, IMHO.

 

[The Bandit]

You said you were a contractor...I guess your contract was terminated, so I don't think there will be any severance. If you were working 60-70 hours a week, then they liked the fact that you would work those hours at a lower wage. The fact that you were trying to bring in a union was your demise.

A company has a right to escort you out with security, they can't take the chance of someone going ballistic on them.

 

[tboy]

Ok, time for my 2 cents worth on this subject:

1) You say you were paraded by 2 security officers and a manager, did they walk you directly from the manager's or your office to the front door or did they walk you up and down every aisle, in every department? What you term paraded is more probably simply escorted. This is standard practise in some companies as sometimes dismissed employees become enraged and violent, and need to be restrained.

2) UI: if you were fired with cause you cannot file for UI, period. Sorry but there is really only one way someone can get UI (besides being a recent immigrant who never worked a day in canada) is if you were laid off. You can appeal UI's decision but unless you were fired or quit due to provable discrimination or sexual harrassment or dangerous situaitons they won't find in your favour.

3) If you hit on a pornographic website during your net surfing activities that is just cause for immediate dismissal. Even more so if it is written into the company policy handbook.

4) Banned from the place of business: this is standard even in cases where you left on good terms. I've left places on great terms with my supervisors and owners and gone back to say hi or whatever and been treated like a spy or criminal.

Sounds to me like you can afford to take some time off and find something new. Don't worry about it, as stated, if you have talent and are good at what you do, you'll find something else. If not? Start your own business and work for yourself. It is THE only way to fly.....

 

[burlboy]

I feel for you. The employer must be questionable if you resorted to trying to unionize in the first place (this is assuming you weren't unionizing just for the sake of it because you were raised on the union tit and it's as natural as breathing to you). You will be better off in any new job with a more reasonable employer. I think it might be worth your while discussing severance with them. It would cost them less financially to settle on a severance package. If they are trying to make an example of you they may consider the cost of fighting you in court worth it to them. Good luck.

 

[Keebler Elf]

I guess your contract was terminated, so I don't think there will be any severance.

Generally if someone terminates your contract you get paid out or they pay some kind of penalty. Barring just cause, of course.

 

[shakenbake]

Length of service is applicable to both.

I guess that we are saying the same thing. In Ontario, they stipulate in the EmploymentStadards Act. Severance pay is for employees with more than 5 years of service. Termination pay is usually for 3 months and more service.

What is severance pay?

"Severance pay" is compensation that's paid to a qualified employee who has his or her employment "severed." It compensates an employee for loss of seniority and job-related benefits. It also recognizes an employee's years of service.
Severance pay is not the same as termination pay, which is given in place of the required notice of termination of employment.
Who qualifies to receive severance pay?

An employee qualifies for severance pay when his or her employment is severed and he or she:

• has worked for the employer for five or more years (including all time spent by the employee in employment with the employer, whether continuous or not and whether active or not) and
• was employed by an employer who
  • has a payroll in Ontario of at least $2.5 million or
  • severed the employment of 50 or more employees in a six-month period because all or part of the business was permanently discontinued.

See this link for more information.

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/00e41_e.htm#BK87

shakenbake

 

[LancsLad]

You lost me when I saw the word union.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Ah, I see I need to dust of my ESA. I could have sworn it used to be 50+ employees employed for severance pay, not laid off. Interesting.

You can also go to the Ministry of Labour website. It has documents that are easier for a layman to read.

 

[fuji]

The issue of severance pay goes beyond what is in the act. There's a lot of case law about this which I don't pretend to understand. View the act as setting out the absolute minimums. Case law may provide for greater.

In this guys case as a contractor he's got a big hurdle to clear. He'd first have to argue that his contractor status was bogus and that he should be considered a regular fulltime employee. Not sure if he can even make that claim, but without it, he's got nothing beyond what his contract specified.

I don't pretend to understand the case law here and anything I say will muddle things a bit, but it's something like if you can demonstrate unusual harm resulting from the termination, or significant personal investment in the firm, unfair treatment, etc., you may be entitled to compensation beyond the minimum severance specified in the act. Plainly it's a complex situation and anyone who thinks they were treated unfairly should speak with a lawyer to find out what specifically may be available to them under case law.

 

[Questor]

Get a lawyer. Contact the Law Society of Upper Canada for a referral to a lawyer who specializes in labour law. You can get a half hour appointment for $6. Obviously, if you want to pursue it, it will cost you more. But for the $6, you can find out what your legal rights are.

 

[ottawasub]

Back in `99, 3 girls were fired at my work. Some flimsy reason was given, but everybody knew it was because those three had been actively trying to start up a union that there really wasn`t much interest in among the rest of the workers. It was supposed to scare anybody else from thinking about a union. Instead, all it did was scare them into thinking they needed protection from a union. A year and a half later we get a fucking union; so that strategy certainly backfired. Only 9 people (including myself) voted against it, though a lot more than that were saying they were against it yet apparently voted for it anyways- trying to play both sides.

A union will fight for your right to pay your union dues, that's about it.

 

[Keanu]

A union will fight for your right to pay your union dues, that's about it.

It depends on the industry. Some of our non union workers were getting $10 start while the union beginners are getting $18 or so to start (quickly jumping to 20's with shift premiums for nights and weekends). Same job. Of course we had MUCH higher turnover which made our lives hell as retraining and screwups from the newbies was commonplace. You literally had to do far more then your own job. We were a training center really, but the screwups still went on your butt.

The threat of a union boosted pay across the board to a $12 start, and my pay jumped $2 as well to $16 (big deal). My unioned buddies in the industry were getting a third more per hour for the same job. Not exactly great cash these days but we were at a level where people were really forced to take at least 12 hours overtime a week to make ends meet. I would do 24 extra hours.

The problem with no unions in certain industries is that Mr. Boss will pay you as low as they can. We weren't forming a union because we made 10% less or 15% less. We were trying to go for it because in some cases people were making half of what their non union buddies were. Then most people are trying to get into a uniioned place, or quiting due to frustration.

This has been a life learning experience. I'm sitting up having a beer and staring out at the sky. It's very relaxing knowing I can take a few weeks off. I worked so many months straight sometimes double the regular work hours even through the holidays without more then a day off here and there. I'm really glad there isn't a huge mortgage to pay, 3 kids wanting this or that, and a wife unwilling to work in my life. Out of curiosity how much do most terbites have for emergency cash in the cash of an unexpected dismissal?

 

[Esco!]

HHmm...........LancsLad......ever think those LancsLad thingies could go against you??!!!!!!!!!

 

[Esco!]

You lost me when I saw the word union.

Uhm...........you say what now????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[fuji]

The problem with no unions in certain industries is that Mr. Boss will pay you as low as they can.

And Mr. Worker will demand as much pay as they can and work as little as they can for the money they take from Mr. Bosses' pocket. It's called capitalism. Note that many people here, including myself, are going to be in the "Mr. Boss" category and not the "Mr. Worker" category. The money we spend on wages for workers is sometimes actually our own money so why shouldn't we try to get the best value we can for our dollar?

In my opinion a union is only really necessary in situations where it isn't very easy to quit and find another job doing the same thing. For example, a mining town where you either work for the local mine or you're unemployed. Or in cases where the employees wind up highly skilled on equipment/techniques that only their employer use. In this cases you can't really just up and quit your job because you'll have to uproot your family or start from zero in a new career. Having a union levels the playing field.

In the ordinary situation where there are lots of other companies you can work for a union isn't really required--if you don't like the way the company treats you, or pays you, you can quit and work somewhere else without setting yourself back too much. As a result, the wage paid will be a fair one: there'll be enough competition between employers for workers that no employer will be able to decide what the wage is--they'll have to pay the going market rate or people will work for companies that do.

 

[LancsLad]

HHmm...........LancsLad......ever think those LancsLad thingies could go against you??!!!!!!!!!

I have to admit that I don't get this one.

 

[LancsLad]

Uhm...........you say what now????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ditto to my earlier question.

Not sure as to where you are going with this.

 

[Guy7]

Its nothing new that discrimination & back stabing is very common over here, people in authority are very rosey & different upfront but when it comes they have mastered the trade in discrimination & now even a new word has appeared like Profileing, they use this tool, & innocent people suffer, there should be much stricter laws preventing employer's to fire their employees.
Laws in Canada are too weak as far as Employees are concerned, that is why the middle class people over here are hand to mouth..............Hope the Harper Govt. gives some consideration for the welfare & well-being of Middle Class Employees over here in Canada.

 

[LancsLad]

Its nothing new that discrimination & back stabing is very common over here, people in authority are very rosey & different upfront but when it comes they have mastered the trade in discrimination & now even a new word has appeared like Profileing, they use this tool, & innocent people suffer, there should be much stricter laws preventing employer's to fire their employees.
Laws in Canada are too weak as far as Employees are concerned, that is why the middle class people over here are hand to mouth..............Hope the Harper Govt. gives some consideration for the welfare & well-being of Middle Class Employees over here in Canada.

And what dreamworld would you prefer.


Dyslexic workers of the world untie!!!!