GOP: Trump is a "textbook racist"

fuji

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Trump says the judge looking into the Trump University scam can't be impartial because he's Hispanic. GOP Speaker Ryan says that is the "textbook definition of a racist comment".

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/06/08/us/politics/paul-ryan-donald-trump-gonzalo-curiel.html

Trump's defence? Trump basically admits open racism and just just said "He's a Mexican" and says his campaign has been making disparaging remarks about Mexicans.

Basically Trump is agreeing that he's racist.
 

K Douglas

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Jan 5, 2005
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Major faux pas by Trump, even his supporters (Gingrich for instance) have been quite critical of the comment. Curiel was born in Indiana, his parents were Mexican.
Trumps beef should be with the law firm handling the plaintiff class action suit, not the judge.
 

Bud Plug

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Racism is a term that's become so overused, it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Let's set aside for a moment the issues of whether Trump is right that the court rulings were unfair, or whether they were motivated by the ethnic background of the judge.

What is the actual allegation that Trump's is making? It goes like this. Trump has said he will take action to prevent further illegal aliens entering the country from Mexico. Trump has said he will take steps to quickly deport illegal aliens (who he identifies as mostly from Mexico). Trump has said that many of the illegal aliens from Mexico are not good people (rapists, etc.). Has this upset many Mexicans living in the US? It would appear unequivocally so. Is it reasonable to believe that many Mexicans living in the US might be so upset with Trump that they would like Trump to suffer some hardship and/or not be elected president? Of course it is. Is it likely that a judge with Mexican parents and who belonged to a legal association whose purpose was to advocate for Latino American issues would be aware of Trump's positions and would at least be aware of how others in the Mexican American community feel about those positions? Of course.

Trump has concluded, rightly or wrongly, based on legal advice or otherwise, that he has received inexplicable rulings from this judge. Is it irrational for him to think that these rulings might be a product of how the judge might feel about Trump's platform? No, it is not irrational to think that there could be some connection.

To be clear, Trump's suspicions are not equivalent to fact. He may be wrong about any element of what is happening, including whether the legal rulings are aberrant and/or whether the judge harbours any ill will towards him.

However, the essence of what is going on here is not racism. Trump is not suggesting that no Mexican America judge is capable of either supporting his views, or at least being capable of ensuring that his opposition to Trump's views would not affect his judgment. Trump is suggesting that this judge may be allowing his background to influence his judgment. Such things do happen in courtrooms from time to time, and that's why motions for recusal (and appeal procedures) exist in the law. Trump might be incorrect in this case to suggest that this judge has acted improperly, but he is not suggesting that every Mexican American judge would do so based on some racial or ethnic characteristic.

Further, Trump's character criticisms of illegal aliens are just that - his assessment of the sort of person who enters the US illegally, not an assessment of the character of Mexicans in general. In fact, he's been quick to add that he "loves" Mexicans in general, and respects the way that Mexican leaders have got the better of US political leaders. He has not ascribed any general characteristics to Mexicans in general, or to latinos. In short, this is not racism.

It would be more accurate to criticise Trump's judgment in: a) concluding that the court ruling were wrong, or b) concluding that the judge must be acting on some personal bias. He hasn't laid out the incontrovertible support for either.

However, the Dems, the GOP establishment, and the media don't want to paint the story that way. It just doesn't resonate the way that a charge of "racism" does. However, as a result of this story, and many more like it, the term racism has become devoid of meaning.

The only issue here is whether Trump is right/is showing good judgement in voicing his suspicions, and frankly that isn't a very important issue in relation to the election.
 

fuji

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Accusing a sitting judge of being unfit due to his ancestry or skin color is just so wrong it defies belief that Bud s even attempting justify it.
 

Smallcock

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Jun 5, 2009
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Racism is a term that's become so overused, it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Let's set aside for a moment the issues of whether Trump is right that the court rulings were unfair, or whether they were motivated by the ethnic background of the judge.

What is the actual allegation that Trump's is making? It goes like this. Trump has said he will take action to prevent further illegal aliens entering the country from Mexico. Trump has said he will take steps to quickly deport illegal aliens (who he identifies as mostly from Mexico). Trump has said that many of the illegal aliens from Mexico are not good people (rapists, etc.). Has this upset many Mexicans living in the US? It would appear unequivocally so. Is it reasonable to believe that many Mexicans living in the US might be so upset with Trump that they would like Trump to suffer some hardship and/or not be elected president? Of course it is. Is it likely that a judge with Mexican parents and who belonged to a legal association whose purpose was to advocate for Latino American issues would be aware of Trump's positions and would at least be aware of how others in the Mexican American community feel about those positions? Of course.

Trump has concluded, rightly or wrongly, based on legal advice or otherwise, that he has received inexplicable rulings from this judge. Is it irrational for him to think that these rulings might be a product of how the judge might feel about Trump's platform? No, it is not irrational to think that there could be some connection.

To be clear, Trump's suspicions are not equivalent to fact. He may be wrong about any element of what is happening, including whether the legal rulings are aberrant and/or whether the judge harbours any ill will towards him.

However, the essence of what is going on here is not racism. Trump is not suggesting that no Mexican America judge is capable of either supporting his views, or at least being capable of ensuring that his opposition to Trump's views would not affect his judgment. Trump is suggesting that this judge may be allowing his background to influence his judgment. Such things do happen in courtrooms from time to time, and that's why motions for recusal (and appeal procedures) exist in the law. Trump might be incorrect in this case to suggest that this judge has acted improperly, but he is not suggesting that every Mexican American judge would do so based on some racial or ethnic characteristic.

Further, Trump's character criticisms of illegal aliens are just that - his assessment of the sort of person who enters the US illegally, not an assessment of the character of Mexicans in general. In fact, he's been quick to add that he "loves" Mexicans in general, and respects the way that Mexican leaders have got the better of US political leaders. He has not ascribed any general characteristics to Mexicans in general, or to latinos. In short, this is not racism.

It would be more accurate to criticise Trump's judgment in: a) concluding that the court ruling were wrong, or b) concluding that the judge must be acting on some personal bias. He hasn't laid out the incontrovertible support for either.

However, the Dems, the GOP establishment, and the media don't want to paint the story that way. It just doesn't resonate the way that a charge of "racism" does. However, as a result of this story, and many more like it, the term racism has become devoid of meaning.

The only issue here is whether Trump is right/is showing good judgement in voicing his suspicions, and frankly that isn't a very important issue in relation to the election.
Bravo!
 

Insidious Von

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Now that he's the GOP candidate of the Presidency, you'd think he'd be a little less cunty. Hey, don't look at me it's what my Vietnam Veteran cousin calls him. Wouldn't it be bitterly ironic that, with the fullness of time, they both end at Arlington National cemetery. At least that's what the US Government has designated for my cugino.

I can picture them preparing to enter the afterlife together:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCT0yhihKj0
 

Bud Plug

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Accusing a sitting judge of being unfit due to his ancestry or skin color is just so wrong it defies belief that Bud s even attempting justify it.
As usual, Fuji, you manage to get so much wrong. This time your achievement is quite notable, given that you only wrote one sentence.

1. Trump had nothing to say about the skin colour of the judge. However, it's worth pausing to say that Mexicans don't have a uniform skin colour. Perhaps you hold some racist views?
2. Trump only said the judge shouldn't be sitting once he saw (what he believed to be) evidence of the judge's bias. He didn't ask him to recuse himself the moment he was appointed to the case. I guess that means that Trump didn't think that the mere fact he was of Mexican heritage disqualified him from hearing the case. Strike two.
3. I didn't justify Trump's conclusions, in fact I said he might be factually wrong about whether he is being unfairly dealt with by the judge. Strike three.

In short, an amazing feat of misinterpretation, confusion and obfuscation on your part.

Bravo!
 

eznutz

Active member
Jul 17, 2007
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36
Racism is a term that's become so overused, it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Let's set aside for a moment the issues of whether Trump is right that the court rulings were unfair, or whether they were motivated by the ethnic background of the judge.

What is the actual allegation that Trump's is making? It goes like this. Trump has said he will take action to prevent further illegal aliens entering the country from Mexico. Trump has said he will take steps to quickly deport illegal aliens (who he identifies as mostly from Mexico). Trump has said that many of the illegal aliens from Mexico are not good people (rapists, etc.). Has this upset many Mexicans living in the US? It would appear unequivocally so. Is it reasonable to believe that many Mexicans living in the US might be so upset with Trump that they would like Trump to suffer some hardship and/or not be elected president? Of course it is. Is it likely that a judge with Mexican parents and who belonged to a legal association whose purpose was to advocate for Latino American issues would be aware of Trump's positions and would at least be aware of how others in the Mexican American community feel about those positions? Of course.

Trump has concluded, rightly or wrongly, based on legal advice or otherwise, that he has received inexplicable rulings from this judge. Is it irrational for him to think that these rulings might be a product of how the judge might feel about Trump's platform? No, it is not irrational to think that there could be some connection.

To be clear, Trump's suspicions are not equivalent to fact. He may be wrong about any element of what is happening, including whether the legal rulings are aberrant and/or whether the judge harbours any ill will towards him.

However, the essence of what is going on here is not racism. Trump is not suggesting that no Mexican America judge is capable of either supporting his views, or at least being capable of ensuring that his opposition to Trump's views would not affect his judgment. Trump is suggesting that this judge may be allowing his background to influence his judgment. Such things do happen in courtrooms from time to time, and that's why motions for recusal (and appeal procedures) exist in the law. Trump might be incorrect in this case to suggest that this judge has acted improperly, but he is not suggesting that every Mexican American judge would do so based on some racial or ethnic characteristic.

Further, Trump's character criticisms of illegal aliens are just that - his assessment of the sort of person who enters the US illegally, not an assessment of the character of Mexicans in general. In fact, he's been quick to add that he "loves" Mexicans in general, and respects the way that Mexican leaders have got the better of US political leaders. He has not ascribed any general characteristics to Mexicans in general, or to latinos. In short, this is not racism.

It would be more accurate to criticise Trump's judgment in: a) concluding that the court ruling were wrong, or b) concluding that the judge must be acting on some personal bias. He hasn't laid out the incontrovertible support for either.

However, the Dems, the GOP establishment, and the media don't want to paint the story that way. It just doesn't resonate the way that a charge of "racism" does. However, as a result of this story, and many more like it, the term racism has become devoid of meaning.

The only issue here is whether Trump is right/is showing good judgement in voicing his suspicions, and frankly that isn't a very important issue in relation to the election.
Considering the judge is a member of the La Raza lawyers association Scholarship Selection Committee and the law firm representing the plaintiffs, Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, was a sponsor at the event. Sonya Sotomayor once said “I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life", Trump has every right to question whether the judge can be impartial.
 

LickingGravity

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As usual, Fuji, you manage to get so much wrong. This time your achievement is quite notable, given that you only wrote one sentence.

1. Trump had nothing to say about the skin colour of the judge. However, it's worth pausing to say that Mexicans don't have a uniform skin colour. Perhaps you hold some racist views?
2. Trump only said the judge shouldn't be sitting once he saw (what he believed to be) evidence of the judge's bias. He didn't ask him to recuse himself the moment he was appointed to the case. I guess that means that Trump didn't think that the mere fact he was of Mexican heritage disqualified him from hearing the case. Strike two.
3. I didn't justify Trump's conclusions, in fact I said he might be factually wrong about whether he is being unfairly dealt with by the judge. Strike three.

In short, an amazing feat of misinterpretation, confusion and obfuscation on your part.

Bravo!
Apparently You choose to ignore fuji's complete statement which cite "ancestry" as a cause for bigotry. How convenient for you. Fuji is not often right but this case he is about Trump.
 

fuji

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As usual, Fuji, you manage to get so much wrong. This time your achievement is quite notable, given that you only wrote one sentence.

1. Trump had nothing to say about the skin colour of the judge. However, it's worth pausing to say that Mexicans don't have a uniform skin colour. Perhaps you hold some racist views?
2. Trump only said the judge shouldn't be sitting once he saw (what he believed to be) evidence of the judge's bias. He didn't ask him to recuse himself the moment he was appointed to the case. I guess that means that Trump didn't think that the mere fact he was of Mexican heritage disqualified him from hearing the case. Strike two.
3. I didn't justify Trump's conclusions, in fact I said he might be factually wrong about whether he is being unfairly dealt with by the judge. Strike three.

In short, an amazing feat of misinterpretation, confusion and obfuscation on your part.

Bravo!
Trump said he wasn't fit, and I quote, because "He's a Mexican".
 

jcpro

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Are Mexicans a separate race? When did this happen? Was it around the same time Muslims became a race?
 

mandrill

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Considering the judge is a member of the La Raza lawyers association Scholarship Selection Committee and the law firm representing the plaintiffs, Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd, was a sponsor at the event. Sonya Sotomayor once said “I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experiences would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn’t lived that life", Trump has every right to question whether the judge can be impartial.
Not at all. Lawyers and judges often attend the same event. Last night, I was at an event with 100 other lawyers and 10 judges. Most of those lawyers are frequently on the opposing side from me in front of those same judges. And sometimes those judges decide for my client and sometimes for the other lawyers' clients. No one lives in a vacuum and it's a small professional community.

To suggest that a certain judge was "biased" because he stood next to me and talked about the weather or the Jays for 30 seconds while we finished our coffees would get you cited for contempt in ANY court in this country and you would go down HARD and FAST and not come up again.

Trunp is a racist. I-Von and Fuji are dead on. And the entire Trump campaign is a ludicrous, perverted nightmare.
 

bishop

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Trump is a man child, he lashed out the easiest way he could with a racist comment when his university scam got busted. Now if the judge ruled in his favor to keep the details confidential then trump would have said something like, "see the mexicans love me".

The bigger issue is the trump university scam, what he says on camera infront of an audience is not as important.

I personally would not say trump is a racist, he is just celf centered. He dislikes the poor because they are poor ragardless of race, he dislikes POWs because a winner does not get taken as a POW regardless of race, he dislikes women because they are cunty regardless of race. The only label that fits the pattern is narcicism.
 

cye

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If the judge has made legal errors Because of bias Donald Trump can seek a legal remedy. His use of race to distract from the fucking boiler plate disgrace that was Trump University should be obvious to even the stupidest of Trump supporters.
 

Smallcock

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Trump is a man child, he lashed out the easiest way he could with a racist comment when his university scam got busted. Now if the judge ruled in his favor to keep the details confidential then trump would have said something like, "see the mexicans love me".

The bigger issue is the trump university scam, what he says on camera infront of an audience is not as important.

I personally would not say trump is a racist, he is just celf centered. He dislikes the poor because they are poor ragardless of race, he dislikes POWs because a winner does not get taken as a POW regardless of race, he dislikes women because they are cunty regardless of race. The only label that fits the pattern is narcicism.
Self-centered? Definitely.
Hates the poor? No.
Dislikes POWs? No.
Dislikes women? No.
 

bishop

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Self-centered? Definitely.
Hates the poor? No.
Dislikes POWs? No.
Dislikes women? No.
Hates the poor; Trump has said that poor people should not be allowed to play on his golf courses. Trump university is a scam targetted exclusively at the poor.
Hates POWs; go ask john Mccain how he felt when someone who got 5 defferments from the vietnam draft, makes fun of John McCain for being captured as a POW.
Hates Women; that is self evident.

Edit: To think about it, trump does not dislike any group in particular, Trump just hates anyone that is not himself. If Trump had a twin brother with the same amount of success/failure, Donald Trump would hate him too. Trump is an equal opportunity charleton, regardless of who you are; he will think nothing about taking your money and cracking a smile while doing so.
 

bishop

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At one point I thought Trump was a genius. I thought all this time he has been playing a baffon on his reality TV show and his birther movement was just years of preparation to lay down the road to the white house. It takes a real genius to play a good retard, or an actual retard to be himself, Trump is without a doubt the latter and not the former.
 
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