Gold

Big Sleazy

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Sep 13, 2004
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The Banks are net long Gold now. The price is going up. They are simply trying to manage it thru the manipulation of the markets. Even Bloomberg, Reuters, and the Financial Times have begun to report on the manipulation of the Gold market. But the truth is that all markets are manipulated. Buy physical Gold and don't trade it. Normally I would say everyone who can should have some exposure to Gold in a portfolio. Say 5%-15%. But that's in normal times. Today I see very little out there other than Gold/Silver. Buy physical and own it in your possession. Thus reducing the counter party risk. Which is what all paper assets really are.

BS
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,972
5,600
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The Banks are net long Gold now. The price is going up. They are simply trying to manage it thru the manipulation of the markets. Even Bloomberg, Reuters, and the Financial Times have begun to report on the manipulation of the Gold market. But the truth is that all markets are manipulated. Buy physical Gold and don't trade it. Normally I would say everyone who can should have some exposure to Gold in a portfolio. Say 5%-15%. But that's in normal times. Today I see very little out there other than Gold/Silver. Buy physical and own it in your possession. Thus reducing the counter party risk. Which is what all paper assets really are.

BS
+1. The reports are that comex' physical gold is leveraged 120 times.
 

oil&gas

Well-known member
Apr 16, 2002
15,910
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Ghawar
Where the *Bleep* Is Germany’s Gold?

http://www.freemansperspective.com/germanys-gold/

Feb 4th, 2014
Paul Rosenberg

You may have heard something about this story, but I think it’s important to take a few minutes to restate the facts clearly. In the modern news environment, stories come and go so fast – and in so many parts – that it’s very easy to get lost along the way.

So, here’s what we know so far:


In 2012, the Bundesbank (the central bank of Germany) asked to visit the vault of the Federal Reserve in New York, to view the 1,536 tons of gold they have stored there.

* The Federal Reserve told them no. They were not allowed to see their gold.

* In response, Germany said that they wanted 300 tons of their gold back.

* The Federal Reserve said that they’d need seven years to get the gold back to Germany. (Something that should take them seven weeks, tops.)

* One year later, the Fed has returned only 5 tons of gold to Germany. At this rate, it will take 60 years for the Germans to get less than one fifth of their gold back.


Though I don’t know precisely what, it is very clear that something strange is going on here… something that the prestigious central bankers want to keep away from the light of day.

Shipping 300 tons of metal is hardly a new and difficult technical challenge. Companies involved in metal trading do this all the time. Sure, gold requires extra security, but security is also something that lots of people know how to provide.

Give me half a percent as a premium, and I’ll have it arranged by next week!

The German Responses

The initial German response was the one mentioned above: Give us back our gold. But that happened over a year ago, after they weren’t allowed to see their gold. There have been further responses, following the very
lame de************ of five tons.

These responses have come in just the past month or so:

The president of Germany’s top financial regulations group said that manipulation of gold and silver “is worse than the Libor-rigging scandal.” (The Libor scandal was and is a big deal, and lots of lawsuits are underway over it.) That’s a big accusation.

Then, Deutsche Bank, the biggest German bank, dropped out of the London gold fixing pool; the group of bankers that set the official price of gold. This is also related to the investigations by European regulators into the suspected manipulation of precious metals prices by banks. Again, this is a very significant event.

Germany does not seem happy about what the Fed is doing to them. These responses may seem timid, compared to what you or I might do if someone refused to give us back our gold, but they very clearly show that the German banks are objecting. (What’s going on behind the scenes remains unknown to us.)

In addition to this, the Financial Times ran an article advising investors to demand physical de************ of their gold. Bloomberg published an article on gold price manipulation. Whether they were pushed to do this by the Germans remains an open question.

What’s Really Going On?

So, given what we know, the obvious question becomes, “What’s really going on?”

The first answer is that we simply do not know, but even that deserves a short comment:

We don’t know because central banks are above scrutiny. They operate in secret, insulated by governments.

In any honest business, we could learn something about what’s going on, but central banking is different. Its operators not only control the world’s money, but they do it secretly.

So, we can only guess as to what’s happening.

Most likely, however, is that all of Germany’s gold has been lent out and/or used as loan collateral multiple times and that the Fed is having a very hard time unwinding all those loans. If they just give the gold back, the collateral for hundreds (maybe thousands) of international loans goes away.

And when I say “lent out multiple times,” I am not speaking loosely. There is a financial trick called rehypothecation that allows bankers to use the same stack of gold as the collateral for simultaneous loans… over and over and over.

So, in order to pull Germany’s gold out of the lending game (and central banks do loan out gold), lots and lots of loans would have to be rehypothecated to other piles of gold, and that requires a lot of office work. Each bar of Germany’s gold could be involved in a dozen loans, each of which must be re-arranged.

This would account for the slowness of the Fed returning the gold back to where it belongs.

Of course, there are other possibilities. Maybe the Fed is just trying to punish Germany for some reason (they’ve messed with them in the past), or that the gold is simply no longer there – that the Fed or its friends sold it.

The Bottom Line

It would be wonderful to figure out what will happen next, but we’d have to base that on what’s really going on now, and we don’t know even that. As mentioned, central banks never have to tell.

The one thing we can be sure of is that the Federal Reserve and the Bundesbank are at odds. What will come from that is unknown, but this is a very significant problem between giants, and it is already producing consequences.

Maybe this problem will go away. But if it doesn’t, it could become very, very significant.

And how that will affect each of us – well, that’s a very good question.
 

JamesDouglas

Active member
Nov 10, 2011
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The price of commodities, including precious metals, is cyclical. Gold is now in a 3 year bear market, and the price can go lower for a lot longer, but eventually gold will rise and reach new highs. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when. 2 years? 5 years? 20 years? Nobody knows, but it will eventually happen.
 

jjz

Active member
Dec 30, 2011
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I think it is a great time to buy physical Precious Metals right now.
Gold is cheap, Silver even cheaper and Platinum is at a good price.
I would not get ETFs but buy bullion.
The way I looked at it, people has been wanting Gold and Silver since the beginning of human civilization and they can't be wrong.
 

JamesDouglas

Active member
Nov 10, 2011
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I think it is a great time to buy physical Precious Metals right now.
Gold is cheap, Silver even cheaper and Platinum is at a good price.
I would not get ETFs but buy bullion.
The way I looked at it, people has been wanting Gold and Silver since the beginning of human civilization and they can't be wrong.
The price of gold can't go lower in the medium to long term, because the average cost of mining an ounce is about $1200. It can go lower in the short term, but once mines start closing down, gold mining companies start going out of business, and the supply is severely diminished, the price will have to eventually go up above the cost of production.
 

jjz

Active member
Dec 30, 2011
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So it is a good time to buy.
I dollar average it out since I do not have tens of thousands dollars buy Precious Metals in large quantities.
 

Tinatina

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Dec 3, 2013
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What is better gold oil or bank notes? Looking to invest. I have bonds and gics but no stocks.
 

Big Sleazy

Active member
Sep 13, 2004
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Tinatina,

It depends on the individual as to what to buy or invest in.

Gold is money. It's been money for 5,000 years. If you're not looking to trade and just want to save for the future. Buy physical Gold and wait.

Oil has been very volatile lately. If you wish to buy Oil. Find someone with experience. I personally believe markets are manipulated and I stay away from trading. But others like to gamble.

Bank notes ? At what rate ? You have to be getting a return greater than the rate of inflation. Rate are so low these days I don't see them as returning anything.

You could buy Junk Bonds. I know of a fund that returns 6.5% for a 1 yr. term and 7.5% for a 3 yr. term.

PM me if you wish.

BS
 

George The Curious

Active member
Nov 28, 2011
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The price of gold can't go lower in the medium to long term, because the average cost of mining an ounce is about $1200. It can go lower in the short term, but once mines start closing down, gold mining companies start going out of business, and the supply is severely diminished, the price will have to eventually go up above the cost of production.
Not necessarily. You are looking only at supply side. Gold is rarely "consumed", so even if supply falls, if demand falls further, price can still keep going down.
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,972
5,600
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Not necessarily. You are looking only at supply side. Gold is rarely "consumed", so even if supply falls, if demand falls further, price can still keep going down.
Demand for physical gold is very strong, and will only grow stronger as China and India expands its middle class.
 

onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
Jan 10, 2002
40,882
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Hooterville
www.scubadiving.com
If the EU (countries) are stupid enough to sell their gold at these prices, China and Russia will be happy to buy. Noting fundamentally has changed. Maybe the EU has hired Gordon Brown as advisor.
Gold is down 25% since April 2013....
 

Barca

Active member
Sep 8, 2008
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Not necessarily. You are looking only at supply side. Gold is rarely "consumed", so even if supply falls, if demand falls further, price can still keep going down.
You kind of contradicted yourself here. While you correctly state gold is not "consumed" you then admit there is a "demand" element to the analysis, thereby actually validating the supply argument you are trying to disprove.
 

George The Curious

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Nov 28, 2011
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You kind of contradicted yourself here. While you correctly state gold is not "consumed" you then admit there is a "demand" element to the analysis, thereby actually validating the supply argument you are trying to disprove.
Demand from gold hording suckers like you only buying them useless metals in hopes for price appreciation. Eventually, you horders will need to sell gold for money because the metal itself is useless without buyers. Its value is completely artificial and manipulated by commodity traders. Right now it is on the down cycle. I will buy them from you in 2 years at $600 / oz. thanks you very much! lol
 

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,972
5,600
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Demand from gold hording suckers like you only buying them useless metals in hopes for price appreciation. Eventually, you horders will need to sell gold for money because the metal itself is useless without buyers. Its value is completely artificial and manipulated by commodity traders. Right now it is on the down cycle. I will buy them from you in 2 years at $600 / oz. thanks you very much! lol
I hope it goes to $600. That will be a good time to buy. Good luck

I am not as clever as you are, and cannot predict the bottom or the timing of the bottom. I do not quite understand how you do it.
I just buy on the way down.
 
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JamesDouglas

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Nov 10, 2011
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Gold mining stocks have not just been beaten down the past few years, they've been Jian Ghomeshied.

I'm not a market timer, but I know, and everyone else who has a basic understanding of the market knows that gold mining stocks will not be in a bear market forever. On the news most analysts are saying the only way to play gold is to short it. At the same time they're saying now is the time to buy US stocks. Let's see, gold has been in a 3 year bear market, US equities have been in a 5 and a half year bull market, and the herd always buys at the wrong time, buying high and selling low. I'm not sure about you guys, but I know where I'm putting my money.
 

George The Curious

Active member
Nov 28, 2011
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Gold mining stocks have not just been beaten down the past few years, they've been Jian Ghomeshied.

I'm not a market timer, but I know, and everyone else who has a basic understanding of the market knows that gold mining stocks will not be in a bear market forever. On the news most analysts are saying the only way to play gold is to short it. At the same time they're saying now is the time to buy US stocks. Let's see, gold has been in a 3 year bear market, US equities have been in a 5 and a half year bull market, and the herd always buys at the wrong time, buying high and selling low. I'm not sure about you guys, but I know where I'm putting my money.
I can tell you are fairly young. Gold peaked in 1980s then was in bear market until 2000. But that's ok. If you think 3 years or even 10 years is a long time. We need someone like you to short gold to. Thanks again.
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts