Giving UP

[goodtime]

Please reach out

rayfinkel, I won't pretend to understand the crap or hell you are going thru.

Before you do anything else, please call the distress hotline, talk to someone.

Sure life can be hell. But please take our hand, YOU ARE AMONG FRIENDS HERE. Lot of people here offereing their help.

I dug myself out of personal hell recently (for a laugh, see my posts in the massage session). I won't dare to compare our circumstances. Sure, it's not rosey but after spending time with the dying patients and street people, I think we have the means to do some good. Please talk to someone.

 

[vancouverironic]

This may sound bizarre, but being told NOT to consider suicide can give the idea more power than it should have.

This is suicide: you're here; then you're not.

Not that big a deal, really - people are dying left right and sideways as we read these posts - dying of old age in their sleep, plowing their cars into trees, getting blown up by landmines, hit by trains, shot, stabbed, the machines finally turned off, nailed in drivebys, etc., etc., ect., and on and on it goes.

That's death: you're here; and then you're not.

I think it's ok to think about suicide as long as you have it in perspective. It's an option, it's an out, but it's not special, or mysterious. That takes it out of the "I can't help it, this crazy sinister force is making me do something" zone.

You want what's happening to stop. That's what you want. Perfectly reasonable. But that's not the same as dead. I recently went through a rough time - and told the doctor to make it stop because I was sick to death, literally, of thinking about the option you're considering. So the doc said "Fine, take some seroquel, it'll knock your ass out at might so you can sleep". I bet you're not sleeping, right? Your brain needs time not worrying itself to death 24 hours a day in order for things to even appear to be better.

I mean, in the mindset you're in, there is NOTHING that can make anything better until your brain is given a chance to gear down. You need to go ASAP to where you can buy your brain a little time out, and street drugs won't do that. They're too dirty and the dosage is unpredictable. Go to the ER. And talk to somebody there about what's happening.

When the smoke clears you can work with a doctor to find a good maintenance prescription or combo - I myself am on a combo of two SSRIs and the seroquel, and unless I walk up and announce it (or talk about it on a forum, whoops) nobody would even know I'm one of those crazy prescription drug fiends. The drugs really do work for most people. Other people need insulin, or asthma inhalers - I need the drugs I'm on to feel healthy and reasonably happy, and that's all there is to it. Give it a whirl.

You're going to be OK.

 

[Bill the Pirate]

I agree with misty,

Ray, none of us can know what you are going through. A few may try. All I can say is there has to be better things for you on the horizon. Ending things is not the only solution.

 

[jwmorrice]

Drugs are a quick fix and in the long run, they do more harm than good. People can only change from within and it starts with the first step in the right direction...

Hmm, can't agree with this. Ofttimes, the antidepressants come first and only then can come the change from within. However, each life is its own work of art and there is no one right way.

With respect to ray, I agree that an emergency ward is the best place for him to be at this time.

jwm

 

[Drunken Master]

Hmm, can't agree with this. Ofttimes, the antidepressants come first and only then can come the change from within. However, each life is its own work of art and there is no one right way.

With respect to ray, I agree that an emergency ward is the best place for him to be at this time.

jwm

jwm - I do believe Sheik is talking about the "hardcore" drugs ray says he is into. These are indeed a quick fix and most will aggravate depression horribly.

 

[jwmorrice]

jwm - I do believe Sheik is talking about the "hardcore" drugs ray says he is into. These are indeed a quick fix and most will aggravate depression horribly.

Oooops!!
jwm

 

[Drunken Master]

I've been trying to find out what the suicide statistics are for Canada and Toronto in particular. I came upon this recent (from January 2004) information:

http://www.safety-council.org/info/community/suicide.html

I just can't believe this is true:

In Canada, suicide is the leading cause of death for men aged 25 to 29 and 40 to 44, and for women aged 30 to 34. It is the second leading cause of death among youth aged 15 to 24.

If this is true, that's damn scary. What the hell's wrong with us?

 

[BigBlack]

I find the key to life is appreciating the simple things we all take for granted. I can be happy just sitting out on the porch, having a beer with a friend, and enjoying the sun. Seems boring, but feeling good and enjoying that feeling is what I'm into these days.

Get back to the simple things. Slow life down. It can get real fast and exhausting.

BBLACK

 

[The_Jaded_One]

I think for the most part the advice in this thread sucks.

Sometimes people need help to change and can't just do it on their own b/c they are so far down they don't have the willpower to pull themselves up. They can't just go out and make friends or join clubs because their depression is affecting the way they think and what seems easy to a normal person is a monumental task to someone who really is suicidally depressed. I would agree that getting out and being sociable is a positive first step but if you guys really want to help him sometimes you have to reach down and literally give him a hand and pull him up. Talking face to face is way better than over PM, and a small mixed group setting is probably better than one on one. Then you can go over realistic options with Ray in order to help him. Otherwise you are just talking for the sake of talking.

 

[JohnDoe]

Depression drains your energy and motivation like nothing else. I've experienced it now for at least three years ongoing. It is not simple to just go out an join a club or socialize when you feel like crap. The only help I think that might be even remotely effective is seeing a psychiatrist.

But how long should one go on living after years of therapy with no success? I think it becomes a "mercy" situation after years of mental torture despite therapy, and a situation where suicide is just.

 

[jwmorrice]

Depression drains your energy and motivation like nothing else. I've experienced it now for at least three years ongoing. It is not simple to just go out an join a club or socialize when you feel like crap. The only help I think that might be even remotely effective is seeing a psychiatrist.

But how long should one go on living after years of therapy with no success? I think it becomes a "mercy" situation after years of mental torture despite therapy, and a situation where suicide is just.

Of course, we don't really know if ray is suffering from depression, do we? Could be an angry borderline having a lot of bad days.

jwm

 

[JohnDoe]

Of course, we don't really know if ray is suffering from depression, do we? Could be an angry borderline having a lot of bad days.

jwm

That's why I think seeking medical therapy to determine what the problem might be is important. My guess is if he is having suicidal thoughts, he likely is suffering from some kind of depressive illness.

 

[midLifeCrisis]

Re: Re: Giving UP

If you do decide to kill yourself, make sure you do it in a manner that won't injure anyone

Agreed. That highway fantasy sucks.

I've been trying to find out what the suicide statistics are for Canada and Toronto in particular. I came upon this recent (from January 2004) information:

http://www.safety-council.org/info/community/suicide.html

I just can't believe this is true:



If this is true, that's damn scary. What the hell's wrong with us?

Wrong with us? We're beautifully designed and come with a warranty that certifies us free of manufacturor's defects ... that is usually accurate.

Suicide is incredibly self-centred and obnoxious. You may not know them, but there are people in your life who will not only be devastated that you're gone, but will blame themselves for your decision.

If you need help, then for God's sake stop whining about it here and get it.

 

[yoniluvrca]

Dear Friend,

Sounds as though you are going through an interesting time. Many people are. Changes are
happening. There is nothing to live for. There is no “point” to life. Life is about living - this very moment.
Without the past or the future, this moment is exquisite. You could experiment with that. Just sit and be
there. When the mind goes to the past, or the future, disconnect from the process and come to
your senses: see, hear, smell, taste, touch. And don’t forget to breathe.

There is so much more to life than we have been told and are experiencing. Life is in the present; it’s vertical, not horizontal. Do you wonder if there is something wrong with your brain.? For sure there is something off with the programming - for all of us. You may feel yourself unable to move out of this unpleasant experience. You are not supposed to move; you are having that experience because you are supposed to be having that experience. It is what you need to evolve to your maximum potential. So don’t move, just experience.

I don’t see suicide as a very practical alternative.In my experience, everything in life is here. If you end your physical life, nothing much changes. You are the same person in another state, and have missed the opportunity of this one. It is the same as leaving a relationship, or a job, or any situation: You have left the circumstance but the person you are stays the same. It is your
attitude that produces the discomfort, not the circumstance that produces it. Complaining is
disastrous. Gratitude brings joy and freedom. The negative thoughts are not you. You are the person who wants to be the best, kindest, most loving and giving human being possible. I made exactly this declaration when I was young. I made it my absolute priority, and stayed with the process. I cannot tell you how much it is worth it. No matter how wonderful you think it would be to be in that
state, that is nothing compared to how it actually feels. Free! It is so wonderful to live without
anger, complaint, or judgment, and to feel love for every single person and everything. And it is
not “you” that feels this love; it is coming through you. You are everything, and everything is love.

Sending you love...

 

[tompeepin]

The only reasonable response is: seek help from medical professionals

I've been trying to find out what the suicide statistics are for Canada and Toronto in particular. I came upon this recent (from January 2004) information:

http://www.safety-council.org/info/community/suicide.html

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In Canada, suicide is the leading cause of death for men aged 25 to 29 and 40 to 44, and for women aged 30 to 34. It is the second leading cause of death among youth aged 15 to 24.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just can't believe this is true:

If this is true, that's damn scary. What the hell's wrong with us?

Depression (Anxiety). Clinical depression.

Which is the result of modern lifestyles that we humans have not evolved to handle. Driving a motor vehicle is a life and death situation every second. He are not consciously aware of it every second, but our bodies do engage our fight or flight responses which exhaust our endocrine system which leads to chemical imbalances and that is just one example and it does not even take into account drugs, alcohol, smoking, pollution, etc. In fact it is surprising that we are not more fucked up than we are. The body is amazingly resilient.

A depressed mind does not function as a balanced one does. A natural chemical balance creates happiness in our perception of things. A chemical imbalance results in unhappiness in all that is perceived and just being told to be happy or some sort of solution does about as much good as telling someone given heavy duty sleeping pills not to fall asleep.

A healthy mind is content and capable of handling the odd crisis, because a healthy mind avoids crisis.

The only logical response is: seek help from professionals.

I agree with longfirmleggss that a near death experience gives one a greater appreciation of life.

 

[Flower]

I agree with The_Jaded_One!

I think for the most part the advice in this thread sucks.

Sometimes people need help to change and can't just do it on their own b/c they are so far down they don't have the willpower to pull themselves up. They can't just go out and make friends or join clubs because their depression is affecting the way they think and what seems easy to a normal person is a monumental task to someone who really is suicidally depressed. I would agree that getting out and being sociable is a positive first step but if you guys really want to help him sometimes you have to reach down and literally give him a hand and pull him up. Talking face to face is way better than over PM, and a small mixed group setting is probably better than one on one. Then you can go over realistic options with Ray in order to help him. Otherwise you are just talking for the sake of talking.

There are times when we need someone to take our hand and guide us through those first few steps, the first step is always the hardest and this is where help is needed the most.

I also believe that it's difficult to make friends and form a social life if you don't feel good about yourself, Ray needs to gain confidence and like himself before attempting to join clubs and meet people or it will not work.

I don't know Ray, but posting here is a sign that he realizes that there is a problem, I think that the next step is to define the problem with a professional and then to decide how best to resolve it.

I don't believe that anyone here is talking for the sake of talking but to comfort Ray and let him know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[shinyam]

I'm very sorry to hear that you are going through a difficult time. But you will get through it, just hang in there.

I just lost my job, and a lot other things are getting me down. Like you, I have no friends. But I like a challenge, and I view this as an opportunity to turn my life around. This is one of life's big tests.

Think about what you have. At least you have a job, which provides stability in your life. It seems like you also have your health. And good friends are not too hard to find, just take the inititiative. Like many others suggested, you may be able to make friends by going out more, joining clubs, getting to know people.

However, I definitely suggest you get some professional help. There is a support group you might want to join: http://65.110.68.8/mdao.asp?mc=Calendar

You should also seek professional help from a psychiatrist. They can prescribe anti-depressants which probably will help you through this difficult period.

There will always be ups and downs in life, it's one big roller coaster ride. You have to gain control of it to break out of the cycle. Start tomorrow. Join a sports club, a chess club, anything to get yourself active and back into the social scene.

And remember that you are not the only one. It seems like everyone at some point in their lives has contemplated suicide. LIfe sucks for everyone. But killing yourself is not the right solution, it's the worst possible mistake you can make.

Good luck to you, I wish you all the best.

 

[WhOiSyOdAdDy?]

He has not posted for more than a day. maybe it really was the end?

I guess I will watch the news.

 

[onthebottom]

Ray,

I concur with bbking.... many of us (including me) have been at the bottom. Get some help, find someone you can talk to... I did (even thought I was the prototype bull my self up by my bootstraps) and it really helped, a little understanding and perspective can really help.

And think of something you really like to do (even if it's stupid) and go do it (as long as it won't hurt you).

OTB

 

[shinyam]

I am convinced that someone should intervene before it's too late. Can an adminstrator find out who he is and call the authorities?

Something has to be done.