German Elections

[canada-man]

CM loves to defend all the far-right racists as well as parties with Neo-Nazi connections. We all know what the AfD principles with regards to immigrants of colour residing in Germany.
I still cannot fathom how anyone who publicly claims to be non-white, can defend such racist organizations!!

provide evidence that i defend or support racists or stop lying.


you buddy frankfooter regular defends Hamas and you are silent

 

[Frankfooter]

provide evidence that i defend or support racists or stop lying.

You deleted the thread where you attacked antifa who were out to protest white supremacists, where you were ok with hammer wielding neo-Nazis but very angry that antifa would protest against white supremacists.

 

[Frankfooter]

I'm mostly a lurker on this board as a whole, and am certainly not looking to start posting simply to pick fights with anyone. Given that, I'm assuming even this post is unwise. That said, I was born in (West) Berlin, grew up there, and moved here in my 20s (I'm 42 for reference). I go back every year, carry both passports, the whole business. And with due respect, it's utterly appalling how much sheer nonsense gets printed in (mostly US but also a lot of Canadian) media as though it were fact. Many of those speaking with the loudest sense of authority about the "disaster" occurring haven't actually been to any of the places they're talking about within the past 5 years, and are basically recycling translated xenophobic scare stories as fact. Many are simply not true.

Example: the big moral panic story about the supposed hundreds of sex-mad refugees in Köln on NYE who allegedly committed mass sexual assault by groping innocent German women out for the night? Big scandal, front-page news for about a week. After which it became painfully obvious that it was invented out of thin air when no news media could produce a single actual witness, victim, or police officer who had intervened. ALL major German media subsequently issued retractions and apologies, and the Köln Chief of Police (who had been the primary stoker of the story, and who was, by coincidence, a hardcore AfD true believer) was forced to resign as a result of the fallout. The story was a complete hoax, and yet English-language media seem to have completely ignored this part and continue to reference it as though it were a thing that happened.

On Merkel: I would slit my own throat before I would ever vote CDU/CSU, so I am by no means a supporter or a fan, and it pains me to even seem like I'm defending her on anything. But again, when the refugee business was happening, news coverage here utterly failed to report the actual reality of what was happening, which was the simple fact that there was a human wave of almost 2 million people literally walking into Europe because their alternative was death. Now, with due respect, anyone who thinks it's possible to erect a barrier that will stop a human wave on that scale with that little to lose, or that it's even possible to stop such a mass migration short of Nazi-scale atrocity and killing - please PM me cause I have an amazing investment opportunity for you. Merkel first tried to approach the other EU governments to work out an equitable resettlement scheme to spread them out over Europe, but given the recent Greek bailout business the response was primarily to tell her to get fucked. But these people were still obviously coming. So the German government made preparations for the eventuality, and although I'm obviously biased, in that moment doing so made them the only adults in the European room because they ended up being the only administration who actually dealt with the operant reality in front of them. Her miscalculation and naieveté was in having miscalculated so badly how hostile the other EU leaders would be in that moment, but very little of those refusals had fuckall to do with actual immigration concerns. And at the end of the day, when you are facing those numbers of people fleeing certain death, you can wish them away as much as you want but at some point you have to face reality and figure out what to do about it. Which is what she did.

In terms of internal disruptions, of course it was a challenge to take in such a surprising number of people, but those disruptions were mostly dealt with within 6 months as they were spread around the country and permanently settled. Between February and April of 2019 I spent at least a week each in Frankfurt, Köln, Berlin, Hamburg, Bremen and Dortmund. Beyond noticing a percent or 2 more non-white faces more in general than, say, in 2010 I can honestly say there is zero sign of "disruption", and particularly none of this ridiculous "no-go-zone" nonsense that gets breathlessly described in rightwing media here. This is a country that in 1945, with all of its cities bombed to rubble and a population of about 50 million, figured out how to absorb 12 million penniless refugees expelled from all over central and eastern Europe where the only thing they had was the ability to speak German. And they figured it out, so much so that less than 5 years later the Wirtschaftswunder kicked off. That was the point of Merkel's "Wir schaffen das" (we can do this) quote: if 1945 Germany could manage that then 2015 Germany with 82 million people and the 3rd largest economy and some of the best infrastructure on the planet could surely absorb 1.5 million of the most educated Syrians (remember, it costs money to get the fuck out of a death sentence. The bulk of those who came were penniless, but they had university educations. Because not having that status meant you were still dying in Damascus).

In July 2018 the Bundesministerium der Finanzen and Deutsches Institut für Wirtschaftsforschung (Federal Finance Ministry and German Institute for Economic Research) issued a joint public finding that based on their best calculations, the pendulum representing the cost of refugee settlement had already swung such that as of writing their position was that the (formerly) refugee population had ceased to be a net cost to the state and was already producing more wealth than it received.

As for the AfD, that's a very complicated subject that to be honest nobody without an understanding of the intersection between generation demographics and East-West social and economic relations and how each impacts the other can really understand. Our media is content to graft phenomena that we understand onto it as a means to explain, but it's misleading. But rather than take my word for it: objectively and rationally speaking, AfD activity and popularity has absolutely fuckall to do with immigration or refugees, though they will scream otherwise until they're blue in the face. Don't believe me? Consider this: Germany is a country made up of 16 federal states. Yes, at this point it's true that the AfD have some presence in all of them, but their power base is demographically and politically very geographically concentrated, and this is reflected by election results at the state and municipal level. The 3.5 states in which the Afd has been concentrated since its founding are Saxony, Brandenburg, Thuringia, and (I don't know the English for this one, sorry) to a lesser extent Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. These are the places the Afd hit 25% or close to it. So: want to know what the percentage is even of the *combined* immigrant and refugee population averages out to across these states? 1.5%. The average in the rest of the country is over 20%. So there is actually an inverse correlation between the actual number of foreigners about and the level of paranoia about foreigners translating into support for AfD. Funny, huh?

So why were these 4 states singled out for almost zero resettlement of any of the refugees from 2015? Because they're shit poor areas with almost no economy and the federal government (wisely) concluded that they shouldn't have to face any further challenges. Moreover, these are the states where every ambitious young person fucks off and goes to an economically viable part of Germany to find their fortune, which means they also have the highest average resident age (more than 10 years older than the national average), and the few young still there are basically the losers who couldn't even get their shit together to capitalize on the universal free university system or buy a bus ticket to a functional economy only about 3 hours away. THAT is the core of actual AfD support - old, bitter and resentful. IMO they resemble the Brexiteer demographic much more closely than anything we could compare them to here. But however you interpret that, the immigration stuff is a huge dog whistle and doesn't translate in any way to their actual demographics, centres of power, or sources of support.

We have our own rightwing media here with its own agenda and message and interests, so naturally (as all mass media) it just ignores all of these pesky details and lays a simple ideological blanket over the whole thing and confirms it to the pre-existing message. And, I suppose, if you're mainly concerned with confirmation of your existing beliefs, that's just fine. But the actual reality is quite different.

So, having typed this all out, why should you take my word for it? Good question. You probably shouldn't. After all, I'm just some random bloke who showed up in this thread and claims personal knowledge. I could be anyone, and could be making all of this up as I type (though for what possible motive I can't imagine). But on the other hand, if you don't speak/read German and as such don't have access to the conversation within German media, or haven't spent a chunk of time there over the past 4 years (and I don't mean a 3-day bus tour of the Rhine Valley with Neuschwanstein Castle at the end), then perhaps you might consider the possibility that this is somewhat accurate and at least a chunk of the pearl-clutching moral panic reportage you're reading is alarmist bullshit with an agenda.

In any case, as I said at the start, I'm not trying to pick fights so I will leave in peace as I came. But please know that what I have written above is a description of actual Germany as it functions and exists in 2019.

Thanks for that post, most intelligent read on that situation I've read her.
I'm still amazed that the right wingers here don't link cause and effect on their pet issue, immigration. They don't have a problem with western interventions that boosted emigration from Syria or polices that have lead to climate change refugees from Guatemala coming to the US through Mexico. Those are the issues they need to focus on, not anger at the people escaping horrid situations.
(and don't mean to drag you into this discussion more)

 

[Darts]

The current wave of Muslim migrants to Germany is actually the second wave post-WWII. The experience with the first wave was not very good.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastarbeiter

 

[canada-man]

You deleted the thread where you attacked antifa who were out to protest white supremacists, where you were ok with hammer wielding neo-Nazis but very angry that antifa would protest against white supremacists.

I deleted the thread because I admitted i was wrong. You who have been proven wrong multiple times on this board and refuse to back down. The latest one is when MSNBC reports a false story and was force to retract.

 

[Big Sleazy]

Merkel may go down as the worst German leader EVER ! Forget about opening Germany, an Historically Protestant Country into a migrnat welfare State to mass migration. Which burdens the German people and German Industry. On top of that the German 10 yr. note is now yielding negative. So people and pensioners that have worked all their lives are now seeing their savings depleted. Deutsche Bank is technically insolvent.

Maybe Germany needs to consider leaving the EU. It's been a disaster from day one.

 

[WyattEarp]

Maybe Germany needs to consider leaving the EU. It's been a disaster from day one.

Interesting point. We'll have to see how the EU experiment ends.

One thing for sure the German export machine has benefited from the tie-up with the weak Southern Euro Zone. Due to the Southern European countries, the Euro's value is suppressed and Germany has been cranking out exports for several years.

If the Deutschemark was still in existence, the DM would have soared in value.

 

[Darts]

"Example: the big moral panic story about the supposed hundreds of sex-mad refugees in Köln on NYE who allegedly committed mass sexual assault by groping innocent German women out for the night? Big scandal, front-page news for about a week. After which it became painfully obvious that it was invented out of thin air when no news media could produce a single actual witness, victim, or police officer who had intervened. ALL major German media subsequently issued retractions and apologies, and the Köln Chief of Police (who had been the primary stoker of the story, and who was, by coincidence, a hardcore AfD true believer) was forced to resign as a result of the fallout. The story was a complete hoax, and yet English-language media seem to have completely ignored this part and continue to reference it as though it were a thing that happened."

Coverup. Assaulted women were pressured to keep quiet.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-assaults-20160108-story.html

 

[bver_hunter]

provide evidence that i defend or support racists or stop lying.


you buddy frankfooter regular defends Hamas and you are silent

You tried to ridicule me when I mentioned the fact that the AfD is far right racist party. What the hell was the reason for it? You seemed to be ruffled by the fact that I made such a statement.

You seem to be infatuated by Frankfooter and making false claims about his political views. However, there were many of your buddies on the right wing that are defending racists. Why are you silent to it??

Do not try to dupe us, okay!!

 

[bver_hunter]

Merkel may go down as the worst German leader EVER ! Forget about opening Germany, an Historically Protestant Country into a migrnat welfare State to mass migration. Which burdens the German people and German Industry. On top of that the German 10 yr. note is now yielding negative. So people and pensioners that have worked all their lives are now seeing their savings depleted. Deutsche Bank is technically insolvent.

Maybe Germany needs to consider leaving the EU. It's been a disaster from day one.

I guess Hitler TO YOU was a BETTER leader, in spite of him being the most despicable human during that era. Typical right wing logic!!

Germany has been the driving force of the EU and one of the major economies in the world today. Do not feed us your nonsense.

 

[canada-man]

You tried to ridicule me when I mentioned the fact that the AfD is far right racist party. What the hell was the reason for it? You seemed to be ruffled by the fact that I made such a statement.

You seem to be infatuated by Frankfooter and making false claims about his political views. However, there were many of your buddies on the right wing that are defending racists. Why are you silent to it??

Do not try to dupe us, okay!!

provide evidence or stop lying. why is that so hard?

 

[bver_hunter]

provide evidence or stop lying. why is that so hard?

Not that hard.

The far right racist AfD Party made some gains, but thankfully no pains as they did not win any seats!!

canadaman is a Defender of Racist parties. Case closed!!

 

[Frankfooter]

I deleted the thread because I admitted i was wrong. You who have been proven wrong multiple times on this board and refuse to back down. The latest one is when MSNBC reports a false story and was force to retract.

You didn't admit you were wrong, you deleted the thread so you wouldn't have to.
And the MSNBC story is not corroborated, which is different from false.

 

[doggystyle99]

I'm mostly a lurker on this board as a whole, and am certainly not looking to start posting simply to pick fights with anyone. Given that, I'm assuming even this post is unwise. That said, I was born in (West) Berlin, grew up there, and moved here in my 20s (I'm 42 for reference). I go back every year, carry both passports, the whole business. And with due respect, it's utterly appalling how much sheer nonsense gets printed in (mostly US but also a lot of Canadian) media as though it were fact. Many of those speaking with the loudest sense of authority about the "disaster" occurring haven't actually been to any of the places they're talking about within the past 5 years, and are basically recycling translated xenophobic scare stories as fact. Many are simply not true.

Example: the big moral panic story about the supposed hundreds of sex-mad refugees in Köln on NYE who allegedly committed mass sexual assault by groping innocent German women out for the night? Big scandal, front-page news for about a week. After which it became painfully obvious that it was invented out of thin air when no news media could produce a single actual witness, victim, or police officer who had intervened. ALL major German media subsequently issued retractions and apologies, and the Köln Chief of Police (who had been the primary stoker of the story, and who was, by coincidence, a hardcore AfD true believer) was forced to resign as a result of the fallout. The story was a complete hoax, and yet English-language media seem to have completely ignored this part and continue to reference it as though it were a thing that happened.

On Merkel: I would slit my own throat before I would ever vote CDU/CSU, so I am by no means a supporter or a fan, and it pains me to even seem like I'm defending her on anything. But again, when the refugee business was happening, news coverage here utterly failed to report the actual reality of what was happening, which was the simple fact that there was a human wave of almost 2 million people literally walking into Europe because their alternative was death. Now, with due respect, anyone who thinks it's possible to erect a barrier that will stop a human wave on that scale with that little to lose, or that it's even possible to stop such a mass migration short of Nazi-scale atrocity and killing - please PM me cause I have an amazing investment opportunity for you. Merkel first tried to approach the other EU governments to work out an equitable resettlement scheme to spread them out over Europe, but given the recent Greek bailout business the response was primarily to tell her to get fucked. But these people were still obviously coming. So the German government made preparations for the eventuality, and although I'm obviously biased, in that moment doing so made them the only adults in the European room because they ended up being the only administration who actually dealt with the operant reality in front of them. Her miscalculation and naieveté was in having miscalculated so badly how hostile the other EU leaders would be in that moment, but very little of those refusals had fuckall to do with actual immigration concerns. And at the end of the day, when you are facing those numbers of people fleeing certain death, you can wish them away as much as you want but at some point you have to face reality and figure out what to do about it. Which is what she did.

In terms of internal disruptions, of course it was a challenge to take in such a surprising number of people, but those disruptions were mostly dealt with within 6 months as they were spread around the country and permanently settled. Between February and April of 2019 I spent at least a week each in Frankfurt, Köln, Berlin, Hamburg, Bremen and Dortmund. Beyond noticing a percent or 2 more non-white faces more in general than, say, in 2010 I can honestly say there is zero sign of "disruption", and particularly none of this ridiculous "no-go-zone" nonsense that gets breathlessly described in rightwing media here. This is a country that in 1945, with all of its cities bombed to rubble and a population of about 50 million, figured out how to absorb 12 million penniless refugees expelled from all over central and eastern Europe where the only thing they had was the ability to speak German. And they figured it out, so much so that less than 5 years later the Wirtschaftswunder kicked off. That was the point of Merkel's "Wir schaffen das" (we can do this) quote: if 1945 Germany could manage that then 2015 Germany with 82 million people and the 3rd largest economy and some of the best infrastructure on the planet could surely absorb 1.5 million of the most educated Syrians (remember, it costs money to get the fuck out of a death sentence. The bulk of those who came were penniless, but they had university educations. Because not having that status meant you were still dying in Damascus).

In July 2018 the Bundesministerium der Finanzen and Deutsches Institut für Wirtschaftsforschung (Federal Finance Ministry and German Institute for Economic Research) issued a joint public finding that based on their best calculations, the pendulum representing the cost of refugee settlement had already swung such that as of writing their position was that the (formerly) refugee population had ceased to be a net cost to the state and was already producing more wealth than it received.

As for the AfD, that's a very complicated subject that to be honest nobody without an understanding of the intersection between generation demographics and East-West social and economic relations and how each impacts the other can really understand. Our media is content to graft phenomena that we understand onto it as a means to explain, but it's misleading. But rather than take my word for it: objectively and rationally speaking, AfD activity and popularity has absolutely fuckall to do with immigration or refugees, though they will scream otherwise until they're blue in the face. Don't believe me? Consider this: Germany is a country made up of 16 federal states. Yes, at this point it's true that the AfD have some presence in all of them, but their power base is demographically and politically very geographically concentrated, and this is reflected by election results at the state and municipal level. The 3.5 states in which the Afd has been concentrated since its founding are Saxony, Brandenburg, Thuringia, and (I don't know the English for this one, sorry) to a lesser extent Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. These are the places the Afd hit 25% or close to it. So: want to know what the percentage is even of the *combined* immigrant and refugee population averages out to across these states? 1.5%. The average in the rest of the country is over 20%. So there is actually an inverse correlation between the actual number of foreigners about and the level of paranoia about foreigners translating into support for AfD. Funny, huh?

So why were these 4 states singled out for almost zero resettlement of any of the refugees from 2015? Because they're shit poor areas with almost no economy and the federal government (wisely) concluded that they shouldn't have to face any further challenges. Moreover, these are the states where every ambitious young person fucks off and goes to an economically viable part of Germany to find their fortune, which means they also have the highest average resident age (more than 10 years older than the national average), and the few young still there are basically the losers who couldn't even get their shit together to capitalize on the universal free university system or buy a bus ticket to a functional economy only about 3 hours away. THAT is the core of actual AfD support - old, bitter and resentful. IMO they resemble the Brexiteer demographic much more closely than anything we could compare them to here. But however you interpret that, the immigration stuff is a huge dog whistle and doesn't translate in any way to their actual demographics, centres of power, or sources of support.

We have our own rightwing media here with its own agenda and message and interests, so naturally (as all mass media) it just ignores all of these pesky details and lays a simple ideological blanket over the whole thing and confirms it to the pre-existing message. And, I suppose, if you're mainly concerned with confirmation of your existing beliefs, that's just fine. But the actual reality is quite different.

So, having typed this all out, why should you take my word for it? Good question. You probably shouldn't. After all, I'm just some random bloke who showed up in this thread and claims personal knowledge. I could be anyone, and could be making all of this up as I type (though for what possible motive I can't imagine). But on the other hand, if you don't speak/read German and as such don't have access to the conversation within German media, or haven't spent a chunk of time there over the past 4 years (and I don't mean a 3-day bus tour of the Rhine Valley with Neuschwanstein Castle at the end), then perhaps you might consider the possibility that this is somewhat accurate and at least a chunk of the pearl-clutching moral panic reportage you're reading is alarmist bullshit with an agenda.

In any case, as I said at the start, I'm not trying to pick fights so I will leave in peace as I came. But please know that what I have written above is a description of actual Germany as it functions and exists in 2019.

By far the most informative and well thought out post I've read on TERB. :applause:
Not that these Xenophonbes and right wing nutbars are still not going to post their nonsense as is evident by post #24, 26, 28.

 

[anto6]

"Example: the big moral panic story about the supposed hundreds of sex-mad refugees in Köln on NYE who allegedly committed mass sexual assault by groping innocent German women out for the night? Big scandal, front-page news for about a week. After which it became painfully obvious that it was invented out of thin air when no news media could produce a single actual witness, victim, or police officer who had intervened. ALL major German media subsequently issued retractions and apologies, and the Köln Chief of Police (who had been the primary stoker of the story, and who was, by coincidence, a hardcore AfD true believer) was forced to resign as a result of the fallout. The story was a complete hoax, and yet English-language media seem to have completely ignored this part and continue to reference it as though it were a thing that happened."

Coverup. Assaulted women were pressured to keep quiet.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...r-handling-of-mass-sexual-assaults-in-cologne

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germany-assaults-20160108-story.html

Wolfgang Albers (the only police offical quoted in the Guardian story) was the police chief who had for a year already made a media personality of himself with outrageous claims of Muslim danger, and was in the middle of being called out by major media for using his position to promote the AfD when the so-called event happened. Also, the Guardian article at least (I can't access the LA Times article) came out 6 days after the so-called event. And the fact remains that he resigned shortly after due to his alarmist claims being unsupported by any evidence, in the context of his responsibility as chief of police in Germany's 4th largest city.

This: https://www.spiegel.de/internationa...to-refugee-sex-offense-reports-a-1186734.html , while poorly translated, is an English version of one of the responses a week and a half later when it began to come out that the report of extraordinary numbers of women sexually assaulted in Köln by refugees was a total sham. The main 2 takeaways: 1. There has been no significant rise in sexual assault cases as a result of the wave of immigration, despite the best efforts of xenophobic websites and groups to argue such. And 2. This is true even though groping began to be identified as sexual assault without being differentiated from rape in 2015, having never even been tracked beforehand.

I can't find english-language translations of these, so presumably I'm also part of the coverup, but Albers literally claimed that in Köln's city centre (surrounded and surveilled by police on NYE), "approx. 2000 men of Arab or North African appearance" sexually assaulted "approx. 1200 women", presumably en masse. And presumably in full view of masses of police (or else how would one have arrived at those estimated numbers?) who presumably did nothing about it. In the aftermath, 153 refugees were rounded up, of which 14 ended up in investigate custody. 6 ended up being convicted (although there were simple pickpocketing convictions mixed in), none for rape, and the longest custodial sentence was 1 year 6 months. Taken against claims of 2000 refugees sexually assaulting 1200 women, it's a hoax. Unless we're headed into claims that the entire municipal, state and federal levels of government colluded to silence the victims and suppress thousands of charges and claims for the purpose of concealing a grave danger to the German state as a whole for unknown motives, at which point I bow out because tinfoil hats give me a rash.

And, as per my original post: English-language media seem to have completely ignored this part and continue to reference it as though it were a thing that happened.

I recognize that this is the sort of argument that doesn't get resolved in the internet, because anyone can find someone's claim that backs up what they believe, so I won't respond again, and you're welcome to post further refutations if you feel the need to. But as I also posted above, if you're not German, able to read German/follow German media, or are there regularly on a non-tourist basis, you're getting mostly third-hand reporting, some of which is pretty ok but a shocking amount of which is just batshit crazy and making claims left and right that simply are not true. Example: there are exactly zero "no-go zones" anywhere in Germany that are dangerous for white Germans due to having been "taken over" by Muslim refugees. That's simply bullshit. Sadly and shamefully, there *are* a handful of "no-go zones" for non-white Germans and absolutely Muslims (whether or not they are refugees) in which it is extremely dangerous for them to even exist there (as borne out by crime statistics), but they are thankfully regionally concentrated and not representative of the country as a whole. (Primarily in the Länder I listed in my first post when mentioning the AfD... which is a complete coincidence given that they are neither xenophobic, racist, nor even right-wing of course.)

 

[oil&gas]

Sounds like taking on one million unscreened migrants
is the smart thing to do. Canada and the U.S. can learn
a thing or two on border control from Germany. Good for
the world if Germany will remain the de facto shelter for
unwanted migrants.

 

[anto6]

It's actually pretty simple. We have the second-fastest-aging population in the world after Japan. And the Japanese are already demonstrating how to clusterfuck and destroy your society by putting xenophobia ahead of facing basic demographics.

The majority of the Syrian refugees who got to Europe were university educated and had made up the middle/upper-middle classes in Syria before the war. That's why they were the ones with the resources to get out. We're not absorbing 1.5 million stone-age Taliban goat herders, nor did we just irresponsibly throw open our borders - we catalogued and processed every single person who came in. If you are conflating these things then I guarantee you have never had to deal with German bureaucracy, police, or immigration control - there is a reason we have that reputation .

Also, every one of those guys knows we were the only ones to take them in when most of the world would have rather they just fucked off and died somewhere instead. As such, they have been a net contributor to our economy since just over a year ago, according to our own economic ministry. As above, one could argue that the conspiracy of police and judiciary and 3 levels of government all colluding to suppress the fact that one of the richest and safest countries in the world is descending into Mogadishu-type lawlessness in front of our very eyes has spread out and implicated the Federal Finance Ministry and the German Institute for Economic Research in their dastardly scheme, but given the actual conditions in the real country called Germany that creates a pretty significant burden of proof on the claimant.

The absorption and integration of the Syrian refugees has been a net win, and will continue to be so. That a significant plurality of North Americans seem unable to distinguish between actual tribal semiliterate Wahhabi extremists like many Pashtuns and Saudis, and urban and relatively educated populations who happen to be Muslim like most Syrians or Lebanese, doesn't make that not so.

 

[oil&gas]

The majority of the Syrian refugees who got to
Europe were university educated and had made up the
middle/upper-middle classes in Syria before the war.

How many of these well-educated Syrians speak German?
5%? With refugees from Afghanistan I guess it is closer
to 1%.