Gas Prices

[Guy7]

Still the heavily taxed citizen's of Canada are awaiting for some relief from the Federal Govt. On Prices Of Gas, which is killing everyone of their budget, & with off-set of spring people would like to travel by road and enjoy out-doors, especially in summer people do tend to take road journey's.
Lots of citizen's had high hopes for the new Harper Govt. but its disappointing that uptil now they have not even considered freezing GST on Gas which can give some relief to its consumers.

 

[CosaNostra]

The cure for high gas prices is..... high gas prices.

Price is an economic signal regarding the state of pruduction/supply. A high price suggests a signal to reduce consumption. Period.

I don't believe it's the role of government to subsidize fuel prices for consumers. We all make our own lifestyle choices and we should live by them.

If one chooses to drive an SUV and live 50km+ from work, that person will pay more than one that chose a smaller vehicle and lives closer to work.

Reap what you sow and leave the government out of your lifestyle choices.

 

[a 1 player]

The big problem here is that the demand for gas is pretty even to the amount in which it is produced. When there is even just a little twinge that there might be an interruption in the supply chain, the prices rise.

 

[pussylicker]

The cure for high gas prices is..... high gas prices.

Price is an economic signal regarding the state of pruduction/supply. A high price suggests a signal to reduce consumption. Period.

I don't believe it's the role of government to subsidize fuel prices for consumers. We all make our own lifestyle choices and we should live by them.

If one chooses to drive an SUV and live 50km+ from work, that person will pay more than one that chose a smaller vehicle and lives closer to work.

Reap what you sow and leave the government out of your lifestyle choices.

True. But I saw a chart yesterday, and 37% is the cost of oil, 17% is the cost of refining and getting it to the pumps, 44% is going to the Gov't in taxes, and only 2% is profit.Yet the BIG oil companies are raking in huge profits, increasing by each fiscal quarter. In my eyes, both the oil companies and the Gov't are responsable for HIGH prices.

So if everyone buys gas on even or odd days, boycots Petro Canada, drives less, maybe(just maybe) the price might come down a few pennies.

 

[burlboy]

Still the heavily taxed citizen's of Canada are awaiting for some relief from the Federal Govt. On Prices Of Gas, which is killing everyone of their budget, & with off-set of spring people would like to travel by road and enjoy out-doors, especially in summer people do tend to take road journey's.
Lots of citizen's had high hopes for the new Harper Govt. but its disappointing that uptil now they have not even considered freezing GST on Gas which can give some relief to its consumers.

What's stopping you? Don't you own a bicycle? Besides if Harper drops the GST 1% then your gas will be cheaper. As far As I know the GST has been "Frozen" at the same rate for years.

 

[skypilot]

It is George Bush's falt. Even the Canadian prices.

 

[CosaNostra]

It is George Bush's falt. Even the Canadian prices.

Blaming George Bush is too easy, and somewhat lazy. Americans have a culture of entitlement when it comes to gas prices, God intended for gas to be cheap.

So 5% of the world population uses 25% of the world gas production. And any polititian who dares raise gas taxes is immediately voted out. I can't fault them for wanting to keep their jobs, I just wish a few would show some leadership and try to make the population understand how higher taxes leads to less consumption, and focus less on the short term pain.

 

[pussylicker]

Besides if Harper drops the GST 1% then your gas will be cheaper. As far As I know the GST has been "Frozen" at the same rate for years.

I think Guy7 was referring to Harper's idea when he was in opposition. He said they should cap the GST at it's $.85 value( $.06), so the Gov't doesn't get 7% of the price when it goes over the dollar, which would then be $.09 per litre when it hits $1.20 instead of a preferred $.06

 

[Guy7]

Gas Prices Reduction

I think Guy7 was referring to Harper's idea when he was in opposition. He said they should cap the GST at it's $.85 value( $.06), so the Gov't doesn't get 7% of the price when it goes over the dollar, which would then be $.09 per litre when it hits $1.20 instead of a preferred $.06

Tks pussylicker for truly understanding my thread on Gas Prices, other terbites just had one sided opinion of themselves, Goodluck to them, some of them are just here to flame whichever thread they read, so unfortunate!

 

[hyperbole]

True. But I saw a chart yesterday, and 37% is the cost of oil, 17% is the cost of refining and getting it to the pumps, 44% is going to the Gov't in taxes, and only 2% is profit.Yet the BIG oil companies are raking in huge profits, increasing by each fiscal quarter. In my eyes, both the oil companies and the Gov't are responsable for HIGH prices.

The deceiving part of those charts is that the number they record for profit is just on the gasoline distribution end of their business. Now factor in the fact that the price of oil is giving the oil/gasoline companies a huge profit as well and the real profit is likely coming in towards 20% or better. At least we get services for the taxes but we get nothing for the profits of Big Oil.

So if everyone buys gas on even or odd days, boycots Petro Canada, drives less, maybe(just maybe) the price might come down a few pennies. [/QUOTE]

Out of curiosity, why Petro Canada? The government no longer owns a stake in it, so why not pick a larger fish like Esso?

hyperbole

 

[biog]

Never understood that one.

True. But I saw a chart yesterday, and 37% is the cost of oil, 17% is the cost of refining and getting it to the pumps, 44% is going to the Gov't in taxes, and only 2% is profit.Yet the BIG oil companies are raking in huge profits, increasing by each fiscal quarter. In my eyes, both the oil companies and the Gov't are responsable for HIGH prices.

So if everyone buys gas on even or odd days, boycots Petro Canada, drives less, maybe(just maybe) the price might come down a few pennies.

I don't believe the 2% profit margin one bit. They make a massive markup from refinery to pump then plead it's not their fault as they only make 2% profit.

Here's my math issue with Petro Canada on that one. Easy numbers so I don't get a headache . Gas is $1.00/L meaning their profit is .02/L. Okay, so I sign up for the Petro-Canada Mastercard (or Visa, don't recall) and I will immediately save *GASP* .02/L on all my gas purchases.

So are they trying to tell me they are willing to make ZIP at the pumps just to drive customer loyalty hoping I'll buy a car wash or bag of chips?

 

[tboy]

And all those prices and charts don't equal in the fact that if an oil company buys a barrel of oil at $45.00, then processes it and turns it into gasoline and gets it to the pump where it is selling for $0.85/litre, then the price of the barrel goes up, they IMMEDIATELY raise the price of the gas in the distribution system to reflect the new price of the oil. IMHO this should be illegal as they are profitting on what WILL be the price of gasoline once the current crop of crude reaches the gasoline stage.

IMHO this equates to the price of a loaf of bread changing whenever the price of wheat changes.

Also what no one has commented on is the fact that 30% of the price of crude is caused by speculation that the price of crude MIGHT go up and the supply chain MIGHT be interrupted. Remember Katrina and the "distribution problems" caused by NOLA's being flooded? Remember the price of gas then? Well I tell you, the gasoline that was already in the supply chain had been there for a least a month so it shouldn't have been immediately affected by the possible supply problems (which never occurred btw).

I will admit that we have to be finding alternative forms of energy but the whole oil/gas game is just that, just a game played by Big business and our governments to rob us on what has become an essential commodity.

 

[raydeon]

The cure for high gas prices is..... high gas prices.

Price is an economic signal regarding the state of pruduction/supply. A high price suggests a signal to reduce consumption. Period.

I don't believe it's the role of government to subsidize fuel prices for consumers. We all make our own lifestyle choices and we should live by them.

If one chooses to drive an SUV and live 50km+ from work, that person will pay more than one that chose a smaller vehicle and lives closer to work.

Reap what you sow and leave the government out of your lifestyle choices.

Well said CosaNostra. We are used to cheap gas in Canada, and people have never shown any concern for economy or environment. Almost everwhere else in the world the cost of gas is twice or more what we pay here, but people drive smaller vehicles and live closer to work. It is our choice and we should not expect the government to subsidize our wasteful habits. How many people really need to drive a big SUV? All the one I see never have more than one person aboard.

You better get used to it. Gas prices are only going to go one way: UP.

 

[mediaguy]

Not that expensive

Think of the millions and millions of dollars that the oil exploration companies spend to unlock petro reserves. And how many dry holes they come up with before actually uncovering a reserve that they can tap. Think of the conditions off-shore and in the high arctic. There's a huge up-front cost that most of us would never want to be part of. These companies are the ultimate gamblers. It does pay off, but the downside is tremendous.

Then they refine it, market it, distribute it. Strip the tax out of the cost and then compare that $/litre to bottled water, pop, milk, juice; products that don't have the risky up-front exploration costs.

Gas prices in this context are a deal!

(Despite the above, I still cringe like everyone else when I fill up.)

My 2 cents worth (of which 47% is tax)

 

[tboy]

Think of the millions and millions of dollars that the oil exploration companies spend to unlock petro reserves. And how many dry holes they come up with before actually uncovering a reserve that they can tap. Think of the conditions off-shore and in the high arctic. There's a huge up-front cost that most of us would never want to be part of. These companies are the ultimate gamblers. It does pay off, but the downside is tremendous.

Then they refine it, market it, distribute it. Strip the tax out of the cost and then compare that $/litre to bottled water, pop, milk, juice; products that don't have the risky up-front exploration costs.

Gas prices in this context are a deal!

(Despite the above, I still cringe like everyone else when I fill up.)

My 2 cents worth (of which 47% is tax)

You're totally correct of course but even WITH all the exploration, extraction and distribution costs the big oil companies are STILL raking in record profits....what does that tell you?

BTW: relatively speaking we in north america have been paying less for gas than other countries (europe mostly) but compared to the US, we're paying a little less than double what they are. For what reason? taxes....as Canadians we're taxed to death.

 

[shack]

. Okay, so I sign up for the Petro-Canada Mastercard (or Visa, don't recall) and I will immediately save *GASP* .02/L on all my gas purchases.

So are they trying to tell me they are willing to make ZIP at the pumps just to drive customer loyalty hoping I'll buy a car wash or bag of chips?

I noticed that same scam myself. It makes their claims of 2% profit so transparently false.

BTW, I read an article in The Star today that said the price of gas in Venezuela is, get this, 3cents/litre. At least they don't charge their citizens the world rate like they do here in oil producing Canada.

 

[pussylicker]

Petro Canada was just a suggestion

The deceiving part of those charts is that the number they record for profit is just on the gasoline distribution end of their business. Now factor in the fact that the price of oil is giving the oil/gasoline companies a huge profit as well and the real profit is likely coming in towards 20% or better. At least we get services for the taxes but we get nothing for the profits of Big Oil.

So if everyone buys gas on even or odd days, boycots Petro Canada, drives less, maybe(just maybe) the price might come down a few pennies.

Out of curiosity, why Petro Canada? The government no longer owns a stake in it, so why not pick a larger fish like Esso?

hyperbole[/QUOTE]
I haven't bought gas from Petro Canada in almost 6 years. Esso, only if I'm in a pinch, like today. $15 to make sure I got home from Barrie, and as I drove up the Golden Mile (Bayfield st) I saw gas at $1.07.9 all the way to Midhurst, and then drop to $.99.9 in less than half a mile. I could have made it, but wasn't sure. So I got gouged. Lesson learned. 95% of the gas I buy is from Sunoco(mixed blend= cleaner gas) or Canadian Tire.

We need to join together and pick one company and boycott. Not for a day, week, or month, but long enough to hurt them. We are the consummer, and we have a say and the final choice. Let's stand united, and show them we won't take it laying down.

 

[pussylicker]

I don't believe the 2% profit margin one bit. They make a massive markup from refinery to pump then plead it's not their fault as they only make 2% profit.

Here's my math issue with Petro Canada on that one. Easy numbers so I don't get a headache . Gas is $1.00/L meaning their profit is .02/L. Okay, so I sign up for the Petro-Canada Mastercard (or Visa, don't recall) and I will immediately save *GASP* .02/L on all my gas purchases.

So are they trying to tell me they are willing to make ZIP at the pumps just to drive customer loyalty hoping I'll buy a car wash or bag of chips?

Promotions and advertising are a business cost, and if a loss is incured, can be written off. You might be surprised at how much cheaper products could be without the cost of advertising, and free draws factored in. If they can suck you in, they have won.

 

[CosaNostra]

BTW, I read an article in The Star today that said the price of gas in Venezuela is, get this, 3cents/litre. At least they don't charge their citizens the world rate like they do here in oil producing Canada.

This government policy of super-cheap gas is one way governments bribe citizens with their own money. Venezuelans are some of the worst gas hogs in the world. They burn gas indiscriminantly, increasing pollution in large cities and fueling a black market where citizens have extra gas tanks installed in their vehicles, then go over the border to neighbouring countries and sell it.

Now think of the opportunity cost... I mean the money that gas would have been sold for on the world market could have paid for social programs.

Here in Canada, where we pay the world price, we make choices to conserve and use less. Not only do we make more efficient use of a non-renewable resource, but we have more to sell to Americans. This money we use for social programs, education, etc.

 

[pussylicker]

Well said CosaNostra. We are used to cheap gas in Canada, and people have never shown any concern for economy or environment. Almost everwhere else in the world the cost of gas is twice or more what we pay here, but people drive smaller vehicles and live closer to work. It is our choice and we should not expect the government to subsidize our wasteful habits. How many people really need to drive a big SUV? All the one I see never have more than one person aboard.

You better get used to it. Gas prices are only going to go one way: UP.

We went through this in '73 on. Why do you think Ford, GM and Chrysler started making smaller cars. To compete with the Asian imports that were becoming so popular. Even a 4 cylinder Ford Pinto only got 17 to 23 mpg, where a Toyota got 28 to at least 35mpg. People got used to stable prices, and a good economy year in and year out, and the growth for bigger vehicle started again. Now Nissan and Toyota are making huge trucks, and Nissan is making a huge SUV. Honda is a lot bigger in it's car size(interior volume), Toyota and Nissan have made big increases too, except Toyota has gone back to making smaller models available. I think a change in consumer mindset will change the need for certain products, and manufacturers will have to conform to the consumers will.

But we don't all live in the city. Yes the majority of Canada's population is in central Canada. But I choose to live in rural Ontario, and I need a bigger vehicle for my choice in career. And some other people do too. I think someone was on the right track to ban large SUVs from the city. If you live there, and don't need it, buy something smaller.