Furnace Questions

[bazokajoe]

Thanks guys. A lot of diverse feedback.

My furnace guy said I should replace my HE furnace next year (15 years old). He said a new furnace will cost $3,000-$3,500.

I think 15 years is a rather short life and $3,000-$3,500 is rather expensive for a new furnace.

What was his reasoning for saying you needed a new one?

 

[curvluvr]

Heating/Cooling | Napoleon

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napoleonheatingandcooling.com

Anyone try Napoleon?

I only know Napoleon for their BBQ's and gas fireplaces. Their gas fireplaces are good.

 

[curvluvr]

Yes, pvc liner right up the chimney. It is a special liner made for that application and comes complete as a kit. No different than the old metal liners for mid efficiency furnaces, only a smaller diameter.

Why?

Because I'm tired of listening to all the noise associated with side vents at the same elevation as my ears. Its a very loud annoying form of noise pollution. You walk down a street on a nice quiet night in the winter and all you hear is the whine of exhaust blowers. It's obnoxious. In addition there is the steam which will freeze to your bricks and eventually destroy the brick.

I live in the old part of the city of Toronto where lots are small and tight and there are mutual driveways, or just a small path between houses to access the back yards. Dumb / lazy installers will run the exhaust into a mutual driveway or pathway because, yes, it is cheap and easy, but not better. In addition, side venting into a mutual driveway is in violation of the gas code, as is side venting into a tight pathway. They just either don't know, or don't care.

But you're correct, it is cheaper and easier.

This venting up the chimney is only available in older construction houses. New construction generally doesn't have a chimney, since there's no traditional fireplace, and the they probably had older high-efficiency furnaces installed, which probably had 1 vent pipe.
Even if a chimney were available, very few homeowners would pay the extra money for the venting that you describe, just to reduce the noise that pedestrians hear walking by the house. That's not a value-added feature for any homeowner.

 

[Archer2012]

I had mine replaced last year - GREAT HVAC Guys. Installed a Trane HE Two stage - have noticed more consistent temp throughout the house - better air circulation and way more powerful than my 20+ year old one. AC - worked amazing this summer during heat wave.
With new furnace - most will recommend to actually run the blower 24/7 as the start stop if you short cycle is harder on the DC blower.
Also a smart thermostat is definitely the way to go - I went with ECOBEE and some room sensors - it works way better than NEST. As well - ECOBEE is a Canadian Company .

 

[james t kirk]

This venting up the chimney is only available in older construction houses. New construction generally doesn't have a chimney, since there's no traditional fireplace, and the they probably had older high-efficiency furnaces installed, which probably had 1 vent pipe.
Even if a chimney were available, very few homeowners would pay the extra money for the venting that you describe, just to reduce the noise that pedestrians hear walking by the house. That's not a value-added feature for any homeowner.

Not everything is about a buck.

Noise pollution is a very real problem and needs to be considered. I have seen my neighbours complain to the city about locations of side vents that were installed in locations that affected their property and the city of Toronto had to step in and issue an order to comply to the offending resident to move the exhaust outlet.

As is steam and the products combustion.

And chimney liners are not expensive. Up until recently, all products of combustion had to be exhausted up through a chimney at roof top level. Somehow with the advent of high efficiency furnaces, this was overlooked, however, a high efficiency furnace produces every bit the same amount of CO2 and CO as a mid efficiency furnace. The only difference between a mid and high efficiency furnace is that a high efficiency furnace has a secondary heat exchanger on the exhaust plenum which extracts that little bit more of heat which is contained in the exhaust and that is what takes your efficiency from 80 ish percent to 90 ish percent. You still produce pollution.

 

[VIPhunter]

Not everything is about a buck.

Noise pollution is a very real problem and needs to be considered. I have seen my neighbours complain to the city about locations of side vents that were installed in locations that affected their property and the city of Toronto had to step in and issue an order to comply to the offending resident to move the exhaust outlet.

As is steam and the products combustion.

And chimney liners are not expensive. Up until recently, all products of combustion had to be exhausted up through a chimney at roof top level. Somehow with the advent of high efficiency furnaces, this was overlooked, however, a high efficiency furnace produces every bit the same amount of CO2 and CO as a mid efficiency furnace. The only difference between a mid and high efficiency furnace is that a high efficiency furnace has a secondary heat exchanger on the exhaust plenum which extracts that little bit more of heat which is contained in the exhaust and that is what takes your efficiency from 80 ish percent to 90 ish percent. You still produce pollution.

Add to all that, the PVC pipes popping out all over (along with front mounted Hydro Meters) look like absolute hell.

 

[Darts]

What was his reasoning for saying you needed a new one?

He just said that after 15 years, "it is time to replace the old furnace". I suspect he might need money for the private school his two kids attend.

 

[james t kirk]

I always figure you should get 20 years out of a good quality furnace.

If your existing furnace still works, the heat exchanger isn't cracked so that the products of combustion are being mixed into the air flow, then you're good to go.

But always have a CO detector in use. CO contamination is the one big thing you need to keep an eye on.

After 15 years though, if you are looking at an expensive repair, it's probably wise to junk it and get a new one. But if she's still running, then no need.

 

[curvluvr]

Noise pollution is a very real problem and needs to be considered. I have seen my neighbours complain to the city about locations of side vents that were installed in locations that affected their property and the city of Toronto had to step in and issue an order to comply to the offending resident to move the exhaust outlet.

Noted. Ouch. That's gotta hurt.
I live outside of Toronto, so the side vents are never an issue. I can understand how it can be an issue in the denser neighbourhoods, where there might be open windows adjacent to these side vents.

I always figure you should get 20 years out of a good quality furnace.

If your existing furnace still works, the heat exchanger isn't cracked so that the products of combustion are being mixed into the air flow, then you're good to go.

But always have a CO detector in use. CO contamination is the one big thing you need to keep an eye on.

After 15 years though, if you are looking at an expensive repair, it's probably wise to junk it and get a new one. But if she's still running, then no need.

Totally agree.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And always take a furnace guy's recommendation to replace a unit with a grain of salt. They would always prefer to make a $3000 sale than a cheap $120 repair.
However, if the furnace is old, then you should start thinking about the cost of a repair versus the cost of a new one, in addition to the added efficiency (gas and electricity) you might get with a furnace upgrade. Appliances are the same way.
For you and your family's safety, CO detectors are a must.

 

[bazokajoe]

He just said that after 15 years, "it is time to replace the old furnace". I suspect he might need money for the private school his two kids attend.

I think your instincts are correct. If it still works keep it until a major repair is needed.

 

[Mr.Know-It-All]

Be happy you're replacing a furnace rather than a boiler.

 

[nervousintheservice]

Be happy you're replacing a furnace rather than a boiler.

Why? What's the difference aside from a little extra piping for the installer? A small residential boiler wouldn't cost much more than a high efficiency furnace and ductwork modifications. Provided your existing valves hold, the old boiler should come out easily. Plus a high efficiency boiler uses the same pvc venting that furnaces use.

 

[Darts]

15 years and one of the motors died (the one that blows the exhaust outside). The HVAC guy performed "CPR" and revived the motor but he said the fix is only temporary. Cost to replace motor is $700 if he can get the part because supply chain issues and COVID.

 

[Carvher]

I got a motherboard for my lennox he furnace from ebay for 50 bucks. When i swapped it i noticed it was EXACTLY the same. Same part numbers and everything. It works great.

 

[james t kirk]

I got a motherboard for my lennox he furnace from ebay for 50 bucks. When i swapped it i noticed it was EXACTLY the same. Same part numbers and everything. It works great.

Love when that happens!

 

[Velvets]

PM me if you can recommend a good company for a new furnace.

 

[Darts]

10-12 yrs before you need expensive repairs, like a new ecm motor which will cost close to 1000 bucks.

When it gets to that point, might as well put the $1,000 into a new furnace.

The alternative is to put the $1,000 into the old furnace and then something else fails a year later and a new furnace has increased in price by $500.

I asked the HVAC guy if the old furnace has any trade-in and/or salvage parts and/or scrape value?

 

[NotADcotor]

2003 York
Still going fine.

 

[Darts]

2003 York
Still going fine.

I had a used older than 23 years old Lennox furnace and got talked into replacing it with an HE furnace. Damn mistake!

That is why I'm hanging on to my 40 year old GE refrigerator instead of replacing it with one of these "energy efficient" crap.

 

[dsc]

Thanks guys. A lot of diverse feedback.

My furnace guy said I should replace my HE furnace next year (15 years old). He said a new furnace will cost $3,000-$3,500.

I think 15 years is a rather short life and $3,000-$3,500 is rather expensive for a new furnace.

So I am reviving this old thread because it had a lot of good advice.
My 14 year old Bryant furnace is looking at its third ECM replacement. My HVAC guy, who I do trust said the motor is hard to get but might be able to fix or replace with used to keep going. New ECM is like $2000, and new new furnace installed is $5500. Anybody had a recent repair or replacement? What are you seeing for costs?