Ok so what you are saying is because it is not forced it is ok.zuzi said:
Fine, if others decide to wear face coverings it is also ok, based on your arguement.
Finally justice - This is Canada
- Thread starter toughb
- Start date
Fine, if others decide to wear face coverings it is also ok, based on your arguement.
Legally, yeah. Now why are you wearing it? Muslim women wear it out of respect for their religion. If you wear a face covering in order to be an asshole like the hooligans in Quebec proposed to do, then, well, while you wouldn't be breaking any laws that I know of, you wouldn't be the sort of person I'd want in this country. I'd prefer to have the Muslim women wearing face coverings in Canada over ignorant jerks like that, any day.papasmerf said:
I can imagine situations where we would allow the Muslim face covering, but disallow assholes from doing the same. The objective, fair criterian would be whether people have a "legitimate reason" to cover their face. Someone with a disfigurement, or a religious duty, etc., would have a good reason. Someone just trying to be a dick would not. I don't think that applies to the polls, though, I suspect you could still vote even if you shows up wearing a ski mask just for not better reason than that you're an asshole.
fuji said:
I don't live in Canada. I am merely pointing out that if you allow one person to do it, you must allow others. You should hope that intelligence prevails and no clashes occur. I suspect that the majority of voters will not protest. After all isn't that what you are condemning? While I do not agree with the method I support the protest right.
But what are the guys who threatened to show up in Hallowe'en masks, or with Jesse James bandannas, and clown costumes protesting? Not the government's denial of freedom, but the use of freedom by women whose beliefs they don't share. They were promising to disrupt the very basis of democracy—elections—to demand we repress others. As tboy pointed out, those guys are quite free on 'their cultural occasions (it's why they're called Hallowe'en masks) to go about with faces covered. Had they simply appeared in burkas and quietly and respectfully voted as I'm sure the few veiled muslim women will, why would there have been any trouble? That's your "…if you allow one person to do it, you must allow others".papasmerf said:
As for wearing face-coverings in general, we (and I suspect your various American states—think KKK) have criminal sanctions against them that could have, and should have been used against the clowns and hooligans, had they shown up. The Electoral officer caved instead.
Zuzi dude, you have balls to say those things about me considering you have no idea who I am, what race I am, or who my friends are.
Not that I have to prove anything to you or anything but you couldn't be more wrong on all your points.
1) I have or have had, friends, neighbours, business associates of ALL races and nationalities and treat ALL of them with the same respect they show me.
2) Sure, I have yet to attend a mosque but I have attended synagogue (however you spell it), catholic services, orthodox services, protestant services but haven't attended any religeous based classes so I gain my knowledge from reading books, watching public television, TLC etc. Sure some documentaries are sensationalist but some just point out the facts. As I said in my example: the one I was referring to showed the negative aspect of the "veil" and also some who embraced it. So in my mind it wasn't all negative.
3) As for ASsimulation into our culture. Yes, different customs and practises do make us more diverse and should be welcomed as long as they don't undermine the basic social rights or structure. For eg: It is widely known that many other races (other than caucasian) hate other races and often bring that hate with them to Canada. Should we allow this discrimination to occur just because an immigrant brings it with them when they move to Canada? NO, definitely not. Same as the problem we had with (I think it was sikhs) who wanted to were their ceremonial swords in public. We have weapons laws that prevent this and these laws should not be overturned. The laws apply to EVERYONE not just some.
As for Fuji's response to my mask/police/identification point: Dude, get a grip ok? Don't go off the deep end of rationality just because I think it is wrong for anyone to go around wearing a mask. BTW: did you know it is already mandatory for someone to carry identification with them at all times? Did you also know that the police already have the right to stop us and demand identification at any time for just about any reason? So what I am talking about is not allowing any one race or religion to be exempt from those laws.
Not that I have to prove anything to you or anything but you couldn't be more wrong on all your points.
1) I have or have had, friends, neighbours, business associates of ALL races and nationalities and treat ALL of them with the same respect they show me.
2) Sure, I have yet to attend a mosque but I have attended synagogue (however you spell it), catholic services, orthodox services, protestant services but haven't attended any religeous based classes so I gain my knowledge from reading books, watching public television, TLC etc. Sure some documentaries are sensationalist but some just point out the facts. As I said in my example: the one I was referring to showed the negative aspect of the "veil" and also some who embraced it. So in my mind it wasn't all negative.
3) As for ASsimulation into our culture. Yes, different customs and practises do make us more diverse and should be welcomed as long as they don't undermine the basic social rights or structure. For eg: It is widely known that many other races (other than caucasian) hate other races and often bring that hate with them to Canada. Should we allow this discrimination to occur just because an immigrant brings it with them when they move to Canada? NO, definitely not. Same as the problem we had with (I think it was sikhs) who wanted to were their ceremonial swords in public. We have weapons laws that prevent this and these laws should not be overturned. The laws apply to EVERYONE not just some.
As for Fuji's response to my mask/police/identification point: Dude, get a grip ok? Don't go off the deep end of rationality just because I think it is wrong for anyone to go around wearing a mask. BTW: did you know it is already mandatory for someone to carry identification with them at all times? Did you also know that the police already have the right to stop us and demand identification at any time for just about any reason? So what I am talking about is not allowing any one race or religion to be exempt from those laws.
ahahaahahahaahahaha tboy, ahahahaha hahaha
Trust me when i tell you we are not in the same universe so NEVER EVER EVER bring that slick talk 'round here partner 'cause you really don't want it with me. Hahaa, c'mon man you 'downy' soft ain't no reason to act hardbody when you soft as a taco shell. tsk, tsk, hahaha, you crazy kid...
neway,
read your posts and tell me they're not xenophobic, racist and stereotype diffrent peoples. Hmmm. does that sound like someone who is respectfull, tolerant and welcoming of others? When you get your education of diffrent people from TV its extremely extremely problematic because them dudes know as much as you!!! Hence why you need a cultural sensitivity training, need to travel to diffrent part of the world south of the equator and if this were real life a slap.
Trust me when i tell you we are not in the same universe so NEVER EVER EVER bring that slick talk 'round here partner 'cause you really don't want it with me. Hahaa, c'mon man you 'downy' soft ain't no reason to act hardbody when you soft as a taco shell. tsk, tsk, hahaha, you crazy kid...
neway,
read your posts and tell me they're not xenophobic, racist and stereotype diffrent peoples. Hmmm. does that sound like someone who is respectfull, tolerant and welcoming of others? When you get your education of diffrent people from TV its extremely extremely problematic because them dudes know as much as you!!! Hence why you need a cultural sensitivity training, need to travel to diffrent part of the world south of the equator and if this were real life a slap.
Z: well, what can I say? Other than anytime anywhere I will show you how "soft" I am, and you could attempt to give me that slap you think I deserve.
AND you can judge all you want, if you knew the english language you'd read my posts and realize I am NOT contemptuous of things foreign and as I've said, had many friends and business associates of all races and religions.
I actually could cite you some examples but hey, you aint' worth the time of day. However, I will make time to meet you so you can give me that slap you think I deserve.
AND you can judge all you want, if you knew the english language you'd read my posts and realize I am NOT contemptuous of things foreign and as I've said, had many friends and business associates of all races and religions.
I actually could cite you some examples but hey, you aint' worth the time of day. However, I will make time to meet you so you can give me that slap you think I deserve.
Exactly my point...
My ancestors arrived and practiced their religion, lived by Canadian laws and were very happy to be in a great country.
They expected only rewards from their work. They didn't try and push their beliefs on others crying these are my rights.
A little of humility might be in order for those who come here and start demanding their rights and attempting to push their way of life on us.
"Immigrants, have rights under the charter, but if you don't like it you are free to leave". Couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!!!!!
**********************red said:
My ancestors arrived and practiced their religion, lived by Canadian laws and were very happy to be in a great country.
They expected only rewards from their work. They didn't try and push their beliefs on others crying these are my rights.
A little of humility might be in order for those who come here and start demanding their rights and attempting to push their way of life on us.
"Immigrants, have rights under the charter, but if you don't like it you are free to leave". Couldn't agree with you more!!!!!!!!!!!
A slap is sensitivity and cultural training?
"OBLIGATED to wear the Hijab BUT ARE NOT FORCED TOO!"
OBLIGATED:- Definition:-Force or compel somebody to do something.
This is a contradiction. Do you understand your culture or religion?
"ahahaahahahaahahahaahahahaha hahaha". Must be some new sophisticated language or way of intelligently expressing ones self that I'm not aware of.
"Slap":-A blow from a flat object (as an open hand). I don't care which culture your from this is not accepted here in Canada.
You should learn more tolerance and take a law course.
*****************************zuzi said:
"OBLIGATED to wear the Hijab BUT ARE NOT FORCED TOO!"
OBLIGATED:- Definition:-Force or compel somebody to do something.
This is a contradiction. Do you understand your culture or religion?
"ahahaahahahaahahahaahahahaha hahaha". Must be some new sophisticated language or way of intelligently expressing ones self that I'm not aware of.
"Slap":-A blow from a flat object (as an open hand). I don't care which culture your from this is not accepted here in Canada.
You should learn more tolerance and take a law course.
How does a handful of women wanting to wear a niqab while they vote automatically amount to "attempting to push their way of life on us"?toughb said:
You're also making the assumption that Canadian law is perfect as it is and are implying that if someone was not born in this country, they should just shut up and take it even if it conflicts with their religious beliefs. While I understand that your main point is immigrants should be more open to assimilation and embrace Canadian laws and culture, the "leave if you don't agree" argument sounds like you are telling a large portion of the population that their opinion only matters if they agree. Otherwise they should "shut up and go home because you should be thankful they're here".
No it's not pretty simple. There are many many holes in that argument. See my above reply to toughb for one. Here's another one. I think it's safe to say that many (perhaps even you if you frequent incalls) on this escort review board does not obey or agree with every law in Canada. Why can you, if you frequent incalls, stay and they cannot?Planner said:
You are just plain wrong. We do NOT live in the sort of police state that you imagine.tboy said:
The police have NO RIGHT to arbitrarily stop you, question you, detain you, or force you to identify yourself. NO RIGHT at all. They can ask. You can walk away. Unless they are prepared to arrest you they can't force you to do ANYTHING.
In order to arrest you they have to have reasonable grounds to believe that you have committed an offense, or that you will commit an offense. They can't just make this up. There are standards that those reasonable grounds have to meet. They have to be able to explain it convincingly to a judge why they suspect you might have committed an offense.
If they do suspect you of an offense then you DO have to identify yourself to the police. You STILL don't need to give them picture ID. You just need to identify yourself. And they have to accept that... UNLESS they have some grounds to believe you might be lying. At which point they can hold you until they've satisfied themselves as to your identity. Photo id MIGHT satisfy them, or it might not (it might be fake). Other things that might satisfy them: Someone vouching for you, you producing some evidence that what you say is true (a letter addressed to you, whatever).
Wherever did you get this crazy, outrageous idea that the police can just arbitrarily seize you and force you to identify yourself? That's not Canada. That might be Nazi germany, but it's not how things work in Canada.
You are extrapolating maybe from driving. If you are driving a car the onus is on you to prove that you have a right to drive a car, and the police can demand that proof (ie: they can demand to see your license). That's a common, but legally very odd situation. It is not at all like that if you are out strolling down main street. In that case you don't have to prove nothing to nobody no matter what uniform they wear (unless you are suspected of an offense).
Well gee, if you walk away, and they tell you to stop and you keep going...fuji said:
What do you think will happen next?
They'll have suspicion then.
Which in turn will give them a reason to stop you and ask you ?'s.
So, in essence they can arbitrarily stop you.
...and they do so. I'm pretty sure they can stop you at any time they like, if again, there is suspicion. But what constitutes suspicion from one person to another varies. But if they ask you to stop and you keep moving because as you say, you can do so - since they don't have a right to stop you....see how confusing that can be?
I have been south of the equator and east of the GMT. Strangely enough you don't find many bible thumping (as someone called them) westerners in these countries unless they are paid oodles of money. Why is that?zuzi said:
And, if Canada is such a Koran unfriendly, sex and alcohol laced society, why do Muslims continue to want to come here?
If I was a Muslim I would say to myself, why would I go to Canada under these conditions if there are many countries to choose from where I can fulfill my religious life to the fullest?
