Fat butts on planes

[The Cunning Linguist]

And that is what this thread is all about.
The fat man in a restaurant after eating his dinner, should not be allowed to walk over to your table, elbow you out of the way and start eating the dinner you paid for. But the airlines allow this to happen the way things are.
Most obesity is the result of moral degeneracy. Fat people I've noticed are not jolly like Santa Claus. They tend to be mean and nasty and cranky and very unpleasant to have to spend time with. eg Rush Limbaugh.

Moral degeneracy? Who made you the arbitrator of what's moral? You're on a FUCKING ESCORT REVIEW BOARD!!! Men on here pay women money for sex!!!You may well be cheating on your spouse!!! And yet I don't judge, but you see fit to judge me as immoral because of my size??? And literally millions others?

FUCK YOU!!!

 

[The Cunning Linguist]

Did mathematics creep up on you in school, too? Calories in, calories out, plain and simple. Sure, people have different metabolisms, and some people have health issues that can affect their weight. However, that doesn't change the fact that 2 calories in and 1 calorie burned = weight gain. If you're gaining weight, you're eating too much, can't make it any easier to understand... Either eat less, or burn more!

Thanks for the lesson...I never figured it out till just now.

 

[CapitalGuy]

Moral degeneracy? Who made you the arbitrator of what's moral? You're on a FUCKING ESCORT REVIEW BOARD!!! Men on here pay women money for sex!!!You may well be cheating on your spouse!!! And yet I don't judge, but you see fit to judge me as immoral because of my size??? And literally millions others?

FUCK YOU!!!

Relax man. No one is judging you for your size. Its a simple issue that your circumstances or issues are not other people's issues. I am happy for you if you are ok with your size; its totally irrelevant. But you don't have the right to make your issues become my issues. When I pay for an airline seat, you can't have a portion of it. I have as much right to an entire airline seat, as you do to being whatever size you want to be. You can be large, but you can't impact me. That's all this is about.

 

[LadyTY2Uall]

Most obesity is the result of moral degeneracy. Fat people I've noticed are not jolly like Santa Claus. They tend to be mean and nasty and cranky and very unpleasant to have to spend time with. eg Rush Limbaugh.

This has got to be ajoke,,,,,,right? That is like saying all black people are criminals,,,,or all Native Americans are alcoholics or all asians are good with computers.

 

[ig-88]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/sfl-united-fat-passengers-041509,0,1253444.story

The airline in question is United Airlines, which says that they received over 700 complaints from skinny folks who had their space intruded upon.

But what do we know about these "complaints"? Are these complaints with substance? Did the flight attendant witness the problem? Were both sides of the story presented?

How do we know if this is simply fat-bashing or if the skinny passenger really had their space encroached upon?

Effective Wednesday, passengers who are too large to fit comfortably in a coach seat are required to buy a second ticket or upgrade to business class, where seats are larger, if United's flight attendants can't find two open seats for them.

...

"How do you eyeball someone and decide they're not going to fit?" said aviation consultant Robert Mann, president of R.W. Mann & Co. "From a knees-to-seatback perspective, I don't fit. I'm 6 feet 4 inches. It's reached the point where it's essentially impossible to sit in coach and have the person in front of you recline."

United's flight attendants, who will have the delicate task of enforcing the new policy, have traditionally sought to accommodate, free of charge, larger passengers.

United said it will waive fees it would normally charge for changing travel plans. If seating is not available and a passenger decides not to travel, the ticket will be refunded without any penalty, even if it is a non-refundable ticket.

 

[brocko]

I would sure not want to be the fat guy on a plane full of terbites heading somewhere! Not meant as a joke. Look around we are a nation of over weight people. The whole concept of 2 seats for an overweight person is actually quite fair (like it or not obesity is a disability) and avoids confrontations and discomfort for the slender terbite seated next to the heavyweight. The problem is Air Canada makes folks jump thru hoops to get that extra seat as well as the inherent problems of saying I am too fat for one seat while Air Canada decides if they can accomodate the person. Buying two seats is the best answer but not if you cannot afford itand when doing so if the purchaser does not ask the questions they will in fact overpay for the extra space on items such as fuel surcharge and security taxes.

 

[KBear]

Anyone know what would happen if the person next to you needed his seat and part of yours. Do you have to lift the armrest and let them take over part of your seat?

 

[SkyRider]

At first I had to sit beside a medium size woman who had the worst body odor imaginable.

I love airplane stories. Here are a couple for your entertainment.

1) Seated next to me was a woman with the cutest 2 year old girl sitting on her lap. Yes, you guessed it. As soon as the plane was airborne, that cute little girl screamed the entire trip and worst during the landing process.

2) Seated next to me was this cute 20 something East Indian woman. (Yes, I lucked out on that trip.) Then she asked me to hook up her seat belt. I said there is no way I can buckle your seat belt without touching you. She said touching was fine. Query: How can a 20 something year old woman not be able to buckle her own seat belt?

 

[oldjones]

I weigh 230 and am 6'3".
I barely fit in an airline economy seat especially the legroom.
I am quite uncomfortable all the time on airplanes.
Would the airlines consider me obese because I barely fit in the seat due to my body size?

Mebbe not, but a whole pack of TERBivores would make you stand all the way.

The real trouble is the airlines don't want to turn away any customer, so they have no standards. Because then they'd have to refuse those who don't fall within them. Look how many years they went w/o enforcing the carryon standards they had. And those were just for luggage, not for ladies and gentlemen of substance. Maybe when the first suicide hijacker hides her bomb in her avoirdupois, and they can use security as an excuse…

This one will go on for a long time, possibly forever, because there's no 'one size fits all' solution.

<Sorry, but, no one could resist that one.>

 

[tboy]

I strongly disagree with you; I know someone who was obese herself, had a kid and then stuffed it with bad food. The kid had no choice and over the years I seen her grow up and by the age of 12 reached almost 300 lbs, just like her mother. Nothing anybody could do, it wasn't genetics for the kid, it was the mother who is always depressed (or possibly has Munchhausen Syndrome) and using food as an anti-depressant, or attention getter to her self and her kid.
Now the kid is obese and has little control over what she eats, because she's been taught to eat junk food. So yeah this kid has been forced to become someone she is not.

I'm talking adults there kiddo. But then, how many children do you see buying airline seats to Boston for that big presentation? Not many.....

Sorry, the current fare for a travel ticket on an airline is per seat. If you pay for one seat, you get one seat. If you need two seats, you pay for two seats. EOS.

As for the poster who stated that he was too big for economy class seats. I feel for you dude, I really do but who said you MUST TRAVEL ECONOMY? Again, I doubt anyone put a gun to your head and forced you a) onto the plane and b) into economy class. If you need more room, buy one business class, 2 economy, or don't fly.

I have been flying for, ahem, close to 35 yrs and back in the day when air travel was expensive, you wouldn't have ANY of these problems (as well as many others as seen on that show on the discovery network). Only when the ticket prices came down so low that you could get the riff raff on board did most of these problems come up.

There are lots of alternatives to air travel. Take Montreal for eg. I won't fly there because it takes about the same time as by car. Then you have the train, bus, mule, camel, and if you'd that overweight, flatbed truck.......

 

[Bale]

Solutions:

1) Create specially designed "Jumbo Jets" for people of wide girth which can support the extra weight and offer larger seats, aisles and washrooms. The people would generally feel more comfortable as fellow passengers would not be passing judgment and galking as skinnies do on the regular flights. The airlines can get the money back by charging a bit more for tickets on these flights but for that comfort and peace of mind, I think obese people would pay. The only downside would be the limited number of these jets in the beginning so people would have less choice on flight departure times. If popularity increased, I don't see why production would not follow. On the same line of thinking, they could just rip out the back 1/4 seats in existing planes and replace them with seats to fit biggies.

2) Don't charge big people more, charge people under 200 lbs less - like half price. It will give bigger people incentive to lose weight!

 

[oldjones]

Ok. let's please define 'oversize passenger' in terms you could print on a ticket.

Does the weightlfter with a tidy wee bottom, but shoulders a yard wide and biceps like beer kegs get to sit next to you? A 4'10" sweetie like mine, could have a BMI like a lard bucket and still be a comfy seat companion. Are the only people allowed to fly those whose shoulders are narrower than their bum in an airline seat? That'd be nobody. I don't make it, and I'm 5'10 amd 165 on a fat day. And that's without a heavy sweater, nevermind the shoulderpads of our fashionable past. Face it, most of us 'normal' folk are already encroaching on our neighbours.

So when exactly do these 'fat' folks get refused? At ticket buying time, when no one knows how many empty seats there will be? Or how optimistic the person on the phone is about what their weight will be by vacation time? Do they get their ticket yanked by phone, because the last 'spare' seat just sold—to a six year old? Or only when a squishee complains two minutes before takeoff? And why does their discomfort get fixed and not the armpit stench from the guy next to me? Never mind all the disputes over misrepresented size, and "I was when I booked, and now Mom's dying, you can't throw me off" And people do get violent when their lies are exposed.

Or do we just order airlines to keep a certain few (How many?) seats unsold for such cases? Like that'll fly <sorry> when pretty much all airlines are teetering on bankruptcy.

Granted this is a problem, but there's no simple, practical, perfect solution; it'll take debate and experiment and we'll get some of those wrong. But like most problem-solving we should begin with what the definitions and rules (Oooh! More government regulation!) are. Me, I vote for standard seat size and spacing, upright and reclined, as a first step, 'cause we don't even have that as yet.

And wasting breath and bandwidth telling people it's their own fault and just to lose weight, will be as useful as it's always been.

 

[tboy]

Solutions:

1) Create specially designed "Jumbo Jets" for people of wide girth which can support the extra weight and offer larger seats, aisles and washrooms. The people would generally feel more comfortable as fellow passengers would not be passing judgment and galking as skinnies do on the regular flights. The airlines can get the money back by charging a bit more for tickets on these flights but for that comfort and peace of mind, I think obese people would pay. The only downside would be the limited number of these jets in the beginning so people would have less choice on flight departure times. If popularity increased, I don't see why production would not follow. On the same line of thinking, they could just rip out the back 1/4 seats in existing planes and replace them with seats to fit biggies.

2) Don't charge big people more, charge people under 200 lbs less - like half price. It will give bigger people incentive to lose weight!

Do you really think larger people would voluntarily or happily pay more? they can do that now: by purchasing business class seats and they don't. They want the cheap economy fare, 2 seats, or if there is someone next to them, their seat and half the person next to them.

As for the weight lifter example: it is based on size, not BMI or whatever. If you encroach on my space, you pay more. EOS.

This discussion is one of the reasons I just don't fly anymore. I flew for 2 yrs straight (minus 3 or 4 weeks) and I put up with oversize people, screaming babies, ignorant passengers, lollygaggers, idiots and neanderthals. I had enough to last me a lifetime.......

 

[Captain Fantastic]

So what's next, telling tall people they have to pay more? What if you have broad shoulders/thick arms, but otherwise "average"? Pregnant women?

The airlines have to take the bulk of the responsibility for this - they have steadily reduced the size of seats (width and pitch) AND the spacing between seats/rows to the point where if you are over 5'9" and 160lbs, or have a waist over 34", you will be incredibly uncomfortable.

Perhaps this is all part of cute-bald's revenge?

Here are some sites that give the lowdown on seats and other airline stuff:
http://www.seatguru.com/
http://www.airlinequality.com/

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Story in Business Week:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily...op+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+++analysis

The cattle-car quality of air travel is getting even less comfortable for some plus-size passengers. United Airlines (UAUA) on Apr. 15 announced it will require passengers who do not fit within one seat to buy another when no alternative can be arranged. And Euro-discounter Ryanair (RYAAY) is advancing the idea of a fat tax, which suggests to many observers the company may price its tickets based on body mass.

It's not the first time airlines have looked for ways to account for the fact that more fliers don't fit in one seat. At least a half dozen other U.S. airlines have policies about seat spillage. In 2002, Southwest (LUV) began making large passengers buy two seats when there were no open seats on a flight. Later that year the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance made the Dallas-based carrier's policy the central topic of discussion at its national conference in Atlanta.

Space Invader
United says it changed its policy after receiving nearly 700 complaints last year about "seat infringement." United will rebook the overweight traveler on another flight, charging the same fare for a second seat.

"Should the flight be full, which is rare in today's economy, and United is unable to re-accommodate the guest who is infringing on someone else's seat, we will offer the second seat on another flight at the same fare that was originally paid…even when a second seat is purchased on the day of departure, which is when fares are often much higher," United spokeswoman Robin Urbanski wrote in an e-mail. On its site, the airline says "we care a great deal about all of our customers' well-being, and we have implemented this policy to help ensure that everyone's travel experiences with United are comfortable and pleasant."

A quick review of other online sentiment finds that Southwest and United are often singled out by many fliers as hostile to the overweight, while Delta Air Lines (DAL) is seen as accepting. Lara Frater, a blogger, activist, and author of the 2005 book, Fat Chicks Rule, has begun an online petition drive seeking at least 700 people to sign a protest against United's policy. As of Apr. 20, the petition had 311 signatures.

Coach, But Not Second Class
Not surprisingly, the petition has generated a lively debate. "I am a fat person who is tired of being blamed for airline woes. You should also know that I can fit into a coach seat, so this policy doesn't affect me," Frater wrote on her blog. "However I am writing this as a plea to not treat fat people as second class travelers."

"If you really want to address the actual problem, it's seat sizes overall," one signatory named Wendy wrote. "Not just fat folks but anyone who's bigger than a hummingbird has a problem fitting in the average coach airline seat. That's because in the interests of money, airlines have decided to ignore the real world and install seats that in no way reflect the average size of their actual customers."

 

[elmo]

Maybe they should have something that measures the width of your ass at check in, just like they do for the oversize carry ons. "If your fat fukin ass doesn't fit into this device, you need to upgrade to business, buy another seat or check yourself into cargo. Thank you for flying the friendly skys."

 

[LadyTY2Uall]

I was reminded of my recent trip to Mexico,,,,my sister, her friend and myself had a row of three seats,,,,I am a big girl but my sister and her friend are not and they had difficulty fitting comfortably in the seats. Regardless, we managed to lard me up and stuff me into the seat and fortunately the seat belt managed to fit around my massive bulk,,,,,we were as comfy as possible until the 5'8" thin fella in front of me decided he needed to recline,,,,without a 'how do you do' or any type of warning he suddenly slams his chair back knocking my water out of my hand and pretty much pinning me into my seat. Apparently he is within his rights to recline HIS seat,,,regardless of how much of MY space he was now taking up......I could not put down the tray, could not read a magazine, could not get up to stretch my legs without sliding across the seats beside me. I am thinking he should have had to reimburse some of my ticket fare,,,seeing as he took up at least half my room for the entire flight.

On a serious note,,,,perhaps if airplaines simply designated a few rows with the old sized seats, the ones that actually fit normal sized people, and charge an extra few $ for the comfort.....that might be a tactful approach to seating oversized people without condemning them for their size.

 

[canucklehead]

I always fly first class ... lot of seat room. Being fat and being someone that exercises and cycles and actually eats healthy and has people on the time saying wow i thought you would eat more ..... i find part of this funny and truly amazed and what some of you think.

 

[tboy]

So what's next, telling tall people they have to pay more? What if you have broad shoulders/thick arms, but otherwise "average"? Pregnant women?

The airlines have to take the bulk of the responsibility for this - they have steadily reduced the size of seats (width and pitch) AND the spacing between seats/rows to the point where if you are over 5'9" and 160lbs, or have a waist over 34", you will be incredibly uncomfortable.

Perhaps this is all part of cute-bald's revenge?

Here are some sites that give the lowdown on seats and other airline stuff:
http://www.seatguru.com/
http://www.airlinequality.com/

The thing is, a tall person doesn't infringe on anyone else's space....and if a woman is that pregnant, she shouldn't be flying........

 

[canucklehead]

i do not know about you but my buddy is 6 5 and a 48 chest .... maybe about 210 .... i think that would infringe on people space.