European Gas Prices Hit Record High As Germany Blocks Nord Stream 2

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,607
5,057
113
Gas in most of Europe has always been more expensive. They've been adjusting for decades by switching to smaller and smaller engines and perfecting the diesel technologies. Also the driving distances are shorter and the public transportation infrastructure is well developed. How high is too high has never really been answered over there.
Correct, for most individuals, gas is more like a luxury item, not a necessity like it is here.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Frankfooter

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
Stop lying about what I post.
I have never said such a thing.
That can get you banned.



Stop lying about what I post.
I have never said such a thing.
That can get you banned.
[/URL]
Frankfooter said it cost $210 billion last year to pay for the "climate disasters" that he attributed to the 1C increase in the Earth's temperature since the late 19th century.

There was nothing false in what I posted.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
Answered your questions above. ^^^^^
Bullshit. Replying to my questions with a load of rhetoric and your own questions is not answering the questions.

If you know what the numbers are, provide them.

The onus isn't on me to calculate the costs and benefits. I'm not the one pushing the Green New Deal insanity.

In fact, it's actually quite remarkable that bver_hunter accuses me of ignoring the facts and then replies "come up with real facts yourself." It would appear he doesn't know what these "facts" are that he accuses me of ignoring.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JohnLarue

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
My source? That's not the page that I cited.

Furthermore, that estimated cost for each dollar invested is solely for infrastructure improvements such as retrofitting existing buildings, dams, etc. It doesn't include things like the enormous cost to replace the energy supply that comes from fossil fuels.

The source I cited said the total bill would be more than $4 trillion a year, which is 20 times greater than the $200 billion Frankfooter says it costs to address "climate disasters."

The Earth's climate has always changed and always will. I actually think investing in mitigation is very smart (something that should have been done to protect the Sumas Prairie from flooding in B.C.).

However, investing in mitigation is entirely different than rushing to eliminate fossil fuels with very little in place to replace that lost energy.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JohnLarue

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,172
23,110
113
To begin with, it's remarkable to think that Frankfooter believes we all would have been much happier if life was more like what existed in the late 19th century. Well, we sure wouldn't have to worry about lining up to get vaccinated.😃

But let's consider the numbers. Frankfooter says "climate disasters" cost $210 billion last year. Putting aside his ridiculous belief that eliminating fossil fuels will mean the end of tornadoes, etc., let's pretend his number is accurate.
Post will be reported for intentionally lying about claims unless you retract these statements and apologize.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,172
23,110
113
My source? That's not the page that I cited.
Its from the same source.
Are you saying you don't think they are credible now?
Make up your mind.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
19,045
5,431
113
Lewiston, NY

danmand

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2003
46,607
5,057
113
Yup, food shortages will lead to more migration as well.
There are 2 Billion people living in poverty in the south.

They can see on the internet how well people live in the North. Nothing will be able to stop them from migrating North.

Get used to it. Or vote fascist and have the government kill would be immigrants.
 

y2kmark

Class of 69...
May 19, 2002
19,045
5,431
113
Lewiston, NY
There are 2 Billion people living in poverty in the south.

They can see on the internet how well people live in the North. Nothing will be able to stop them from migrating North.
Unless Covid really thins that herd...
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,708
3,265
113
There are 2 Billion people living in poverty in the south.

They can see on the internet how well people live in the North. Nothing will be able to stop them from migrating North.

Get used to it. Or vote fascist and have the government kill would be immigrants.
If you truly wanted to help those 2 Billion people the simplest way would be to help them gain access to inexpensive reliable energy
Access to energy enables access to clean water, sanitation, increased agricultural output, higher levels of education and reduced population growth

Instead the developed nations / UN are attempting to restrict financing for any new fossil fuel developments
Virtue signaling that just ensures continued abject poverty

Mass migration of 2 billion people will result in violence
 

JohnLarue

Well-known member
Jan 19, 2005
17,708
3,265
113
My source? That's not the page that I cited.

Furthermore, that estimated cost for each dollar invested is solely for infrastructure improvements such as retrofitting existing buildings, dams, etc. It doesn't include things like the enormous cost to replace the energy supply that comes from fossil fuels.

The source I cited said the total bill would be more than $4 trillion a year, which is 20 times greater than the $200 billion Frankfooter says it costs to address "climate disasters."

The Earth's climate has always changed and always will. I actually think investing in mitigation is very smart (something that should have been done to protect the Sumas Prairie from flooding in B.C.).

However, investing in mitigation is entirely different than rushing to eliminate fossil fuels with very little in place to replace that lost energy.
The idea that a trace gas @ 400 parts per million, controls our extremely complex and constantly evolving climate is absurd (and just plain wrong)

The climate is going to do what it is going to do independent of human activities
We are still emerging from an ice age

Mitigation is prudent
Had a small fraction of the annual spend promoting the climate change propaganda been spent on shoring up the Abbotsford dykes ...
Building on a drained lake / flood plain at the bottom of mountains with rivers running through them ?
That was asking for a disaster independent of climate changes
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
Its from the same source.
That would be the source that put the total cost to transition from fossil fuels at more than $4 trillion a year. I'm glad to see we're now agreed on that point. 👍

Meanwhile, it appears that owning your own car could become a "fad of the past."

 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,172
23,110
113
That would be the source that put the total cost to transition from fossil fuels at more than $4 trillion a year. I'm glad to see we're now agreed on that point. 👍
So you agree that every dollar invested in green energy will provide $4 in savings, as your source clearly stated.
That's a start.
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
So you agree that every dollar invested in green energy will provide $4 in savings, as your source clearly stated.
That's a start.
No, that reference was not the cost of investing in "green energy." That number was the cost for infrastructure improvements.

Surely, you don't believe that spending over $4 trillion a year to transition from fossil fuels is less than the cited $400 million a year that your link says is spent on "climate disasters"? 🤔

By the way, that link you provided only had numbers for "developed countries." As the Indian government would be happy to explain to you, the cost burden would be much greater in the developing world.

 
Last edited:

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,705
7,626
113
Bullshit. Replying to my questions with a load of rhetoric and your own questions is not answering the questions.

If you know what the numbers are, provide them.

The onus isn't on me to calculate the costs and benefits. I'm not the one pushing the Green New Deal insanity.

In fact, it's actually quite remarkable that bver_hunter accuses me of ignoring the facts and then replies "come up with real facts yourself." It would appear he doesn't know what these "facts" are that he accuses me of ignoring.
See, you did not answer a question. All You are good at is asking some stupid questions. Today the Global debt is $229 trillion. If Global Climate Change is not addressed expect this to balloon with all the damage to infrastructure, , industries, homes, crops and lives. You and the rest of the Climate change deniers refuse to accept this critical fact!!
Moviefan-2, what actual facts have you ever come up with? You quote an Obama staffer hired by Trump called Steve Kooning. But You have yet to clarify what exactly did he contribute to create a so called "Presidential Committee on Climate Security". What the Hell was the role of this "Climate Security? A dumb as hell POTUS who hired him to come up with this so called "Security" on Climate Change!!
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
29,705
7,626
113
That would be the source that put the total cost to transition from fossil fuels at more than $4 trillion a year. I'm glad to see we're now agreed on that point. 👍

Meanwhile, it appears that owning your own car could become a "fad of the past."

So the Conservatives are stupid according to your opinion??
 

Moviefan-2

Court Jester
Oct 17, 2011
10,489
172
63
Moviefan-2, what actual facts have you ever come up with?
To repeat: I'm not the one championing the rapid elimination of fossil fuels. The advocates of this plan to overturn the world economy are the ones who have a duty to present the cost/benefit analysis.

But if you want to rely on me to provide the numbers, so be it. Here's the analysis by Bjorn Lomborg, the economist who has crunched the numbers using the UN's own projections.


It appears it would cost the U.S. and the E.U. alone more than $5 trillion a year to implement their plans to eliminate fossil fuels.

And I still think it's fascinating that thousands of virtue signallers went to their climate gabfest in Glasgow with no economic analysis of the impact of the net-zero target.
 
Toronto Escorts