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Ethical Dilemma- please help with my paper :)

Mervyn

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I doubt a convicted sex offender would ever legally be allowed to obtain a job in the child care field. So i would think you would be obligated to report him .

Further your friend knows where you work, and what you do , if you simply told him, Dave, don't hire that man, that should be enough , you probably wouldn't even have to tell him why.
 

HOF

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OJ,

The links I added are Federal and Province of Ontario. Assuming that the OP is an Ontarian Terbie and the BB is TO, I felt it rather safe to provide Ontario information. What happens outside of this area can differ by far and large. I would believe that the Provinces and Territories would be similar if not same as Ontario. Now, the USA, I have no idea.

If fact, I could make a strong argument that reporting the scenario is in the best interest of not only the children but Mickey. If someone's a diddler and not proactive enough to stay out of risky situations, I'll certainly make a call. In fact, the person with the knowledge of abuse or potential abuse is supposed to report to police or CAS initially, not to their immediate supervisor. It's there in the CFSA legislation, the onus is the individual, don't pass the buck.

LOL, Daveinphoenix with esalien massage bullshit! I used to see him wander around the Hamilton Strip. You want to discuss creeper? LOL.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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OK, then the answer to the OP's question about 'What should John do?' is: Know the law—whatever it is wherever you are, John—and follow it. Heck, didn't you take a Social Work and the Law course?

No ethics component at all, just as the OP said. Somehow I thought there was more to it than that, seeing as the prof set it as a topic.

But now that's settled: Tell me you're not suggesting Dave and Mickey have some kinda Cornwall Perv Ring going in this imaginary scenario, just because I tried to widen the geography.
 

Madeline Rhodes

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Jul 23, 2010
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Admittedly I am amazed at how many thought there was any confidentiality issues or any other course of action out side of following the guidelines defined in the PDF I linked.

Since people failed to read it there is also a 1000$ fine, as well as a career ending aspect in a failure to report situation.

Unless you are a Lawyer you are mandated to report it. Period.

Take the 5 minutes to read the pamphlet.
 

Aardvark154

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Hopefully I'm not approaching this more from a legal than an ethical perspective, but the major issue here is that John can't directly tell the Davids that Mike is a convicted sex offender (pretty much the external issues). Other than that as has already been mentioned there are several opitions which it is completely legal for John to take: such as warning Mike about taking the job, contacting the police as a mandated reporter, through informing the Davids about how to check someone's background. (the internal issues i.e. protecting the children)
 

HOF

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OK, then the answer to the OP's question about 'What should John do?' is: Know the law—whatever it is wherever you are, John—and follow it. Heck, didn't you take a Social Work and the Law course?

No ethics component at all, just as the OP said. Somehow I thought there was more to it than that, seeing as the prof set it as a topic.

But now that's settled: Tell me you're not suggesting Dave and Mickey have some kinda Cornwall Perv Ring going in this imaginary scenario, just because I tried to widen the geography.
Gee, I thought that I had answered the question and not in a roundabout manner.

REPORT to the appropriate authorites, which would be the Police and/or CAS. When one of my subordinates approaches me with this dilemma or anything related, the legislation is provided, the appropriate calls are made, an investigation is initiated, actions are taken and there is a conclusion made. The client's confidentiality can be breached if there is a threat being made to harm self, someone else, public safety or commit a crime.

Let's get something crystal clear, Mickey is not a client, he is an inmate of a sex offender's step down unit operated by an agency such as John Howard or Salvation Army. The ultimate objective of the counsellor is to ensure the safety and security of the public at large, provide assistance to the inmate in their rehabilitation and report on progress or failure.

The cycle of abuse is difficult to stop, those that are abused usually have difficulties in life. Chemical or surgical castration is the only way to go, and even then there are some sadists that just enjoy inflicting sexual pain to others. They're wired wrong.

Someone said earlier that it's a small percentage that re-offend. Well that's spoken like an offender or a bleeding heart.

Hmmm, I wonder what the Staffords, Mahaffeys, Deviliers and Frenchs would have to say on the matter?

Then there's Jonathan Thimpsen from LaRonge, SK and Rina Virk from BC. The victims families of Picton and Olsen.

Ask these victim's families and friends if there's a dilemma!

I'll tell you alittle story. There is a woman in TO that parades around with a picture of her murdered son on a t-shirt in support of stop the violence. Her son was shot in 2001 and the case is unsolved, yet she regularly cries the blues about this tragic event in her life. What she negates to mention is that her dead son molested and sodomized two youngsters in the community and was locked up for this. Urban legend says his death was retribution by associates of the molested youngsters community and considered NHI. Street justice as her son was a young offender and didn't suffer.

Now, OJ, I didn't take anything that you said personally and I hope that you didn't debate is good. I've seen the abusers, the abused daily for 23 years, and I've had to be part of hirings, firings, internal investigations and work with external entities. There is no place for sex offenders that can keep the general population safe.

That DIPshit just the thought of his nonsense creeps me out.

Nazia best of luck on your assignment. I hope that you're never placed in the scenario of needing to act.
 

HOF

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Hopefully I'm not approaching this more from a legal than an ethical perspective, but the major issue here is that John can't directly tell the Davids that Mike is a convicted sex offender (pretty much the external issues). Other than that as has already been mentioned there are several opitions which it is completely legal for John to take: such as warning Mike about taking the job, contacting the police as a mandated reporter, through informing the Davids about how to check someone's background. (the internal issues i.e. protecting the children)
John cannot tell David about Mickey. John has the obligation to contact the Police and CAS even prior to informing his superiors. Lawyers can argue the issues amongst themselves, the legislation is clear on duty to report and the safety of children. My understanding is if John influences David in any way, then he's breached confidentiality as David is not in the circle of authority and professionals.
 

HOF

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Admittedly I am amazed at how many thought there was any confidentiality issues or any other course of action out side of following the guidelines defined in the PDF I linked.

Since people failed to read it there is also a 1000$ fine, as well as a career ending aspect in a failure to report situation.

Unless you are a Lawyer you are mandated to report it. Period.

Take the 5 minutes to read the pamphlet.
Madeline, I didn't read your link, I will later, but now I'm going to a hockey game with my nephew!
 

Morpheous

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Gossip is part of how communities work Morph, but it's also torn communities apart and caused irreversable damage to individuals. That's why we invented all sorts of institutions to try to do the job better. You can only hope you did the right thing. Nothing to boast about.
It wasn't Gossip OJ. The person in question was a convicted sex offender. And I apologize for "boasting" I felt I had a duty to report the abuse or possibility of abuse of a child to the community . I think if you lived in that same area and had young children you might appreciate it more...right or wrong.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Thanks for explaining further Morpheus. You feel you did good, but unless you handed out trial transcripts or copies of the judgement, you were nonetheless spreading heresay and gossip, however complete and however well intentioned. No one gave you the assignment, checked the info you were working with or how accurately you passed it on.

You took all that on as a self-appointed defender of your idea of a community in your idea of the right way, and I do applaud your good intentions. I might indeed be grateful for that information, but that isn't the way I want to get it or have it spread. The potential for someone doing what you did but maliciously or carelessly and doing more harm than good is just too great.

That is sorta the point that HOF and others are making: There are laws, institutions and carefully thought out procedures that we've gone to much trouble to set up in order to deal with such stuff. They're where we should turn first. None of us is really wise enough to act alone in such things.

But we're always gonna be tempted to try, because most of us try to do good. That's what ethics are for, to be thought over—and fought over— together so we'll try a bit better every time.

Glad your trying was good for your sleep.
 

Deviant

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Feb 22, 2004
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In Canada every convicted sex offender is in the Sex offender Registry.
John does not have to tell David anything.
What he has to do is ensure that Dave checks the Sex offender Registry for Mickey. Problem solved, no ethical dilemma.
 

Aardvark154

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In Canada every convicted sex offender is in the Sex offender Registry.
John does not have to tell David anything.
What he has to do is ensure that Dave checks the Sex offender Registry for Mickey. Problem solved, no ethical dilemma.
But to the best of my knowledge the Sex Offender Registry is only accessable by police.




In light of the following case this is shall we say a tad ironic

* also the second victim was actually a case of slightly older boyfriend with a 15 year old girlfriend whose father got upset.
 

CapitalGuy

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For added filler, google Kant and google Utilitarian ethics. Kant's work represents one of the major summaries of deontological ethics, which in general says that there are rules of ethics which must be followed regardless of the consequences. Utilitarian ethics, by contrast, examine the consequences and defer to the action which causes the least harm. There's much more to each philosophy than that (much much much more, ugh) but in a nutshell, that's them. You could always spin a few paragraphs outlining which camp of ethics would support which action, telling on him or not telling on him. Enjoy!!
 

Thunderballs

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Why don't you rape your teacher up the ass and then ask, "Which factors caused this dilemma for you, internal or external"?
 

Nazia Noor

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With the exception of Thunderballs, I wanted to thank you all for your responses. Some of you have given me great options to add to my paper for potential decisions to be made.

I had 5 ethical dilemma situations to choose from, and I chose this one as it is right up my alley, but I also do not see any ethical dilemma in it. I think that the case situation was created before the sex offender registry and before sex offender laws changed in Canada... the accompanying video looks like it was made in the early 90s.

Anyways, thanks for your help. I knew that posting here I would have got great feedback. Now if any of you know anything about change theories, please PM me. I have one last paper to work on, and that would be a bit tougher to get an answer on terb about... I have to create a theory... I have a theory in mind, but I also will need to back it up with other theories and evidence.......

Thanks again :)
 

HOF

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In Canada every convicted sex offender is in the Sex offender Registry.
John does not have to tell David anything.
What he has to do is ensure that Dave checks the Sex offender Registry for Mickey. Problem solved, no ethical dilemma.
John cannot tell David anything that would be a breach of confidentiality.

Dave will not have access to the NSOR. Only the RCMP, Provincial and Local PS, have access to this information. If someone needs a CPIC done and the reason is for any type of work with the disabled, children, seniors there must be a vulnerable sector search done by the RCMP. Page one would include drugs, weapons, theft, murder, etc. Page two is the vulnerable sector search. Page 3 is anything where the police have been involved such as detain for EPT, calling 911 or Police-it's a communication page.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/tops-opst/bs-sc/nsor-rnds/prog-eng.htm

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=M1ARTM0013190

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2004/12/15/sex-offender-registry041215.html
 

HOF

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Good luck on your paper Nazia!
 

Brill

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Now if any of you know anything about change theories, please PM me. I have one last paper to work on, and that would be a bit tougher to get an answer on terb about... I have to create a theory... I have a theory in mind, but I also will need to back it up with other theories and evidence.......
We're up for the challenge, we'll prove your theory or smash it to bits!
 

Art Mann

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May 10, 2010
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Nazia,

Congratulations on sparking one of the most interesting debates on the board, one that is remarkable for its civility. Too many threads degenerate into acrimonious pointless arguments. Congratulations also on using terb to generate discussion with a wide variety of opinions a very focussed subject with immediate useful consequences for you. No doubt your paper will be richly textured as a result.

Too many times I feel a bit guilty for the time I waste here browsing the board (and I may not be alone in this), but you have definitely turned your board activity into a worthwhile research tool. Very smart on your part.

As for the responses ... it's quite inspiring to see terbites helping a young woman work her way through university.
 

oldjones

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Nazia,
…edit…
As for the responses ... it's quite inspiring to see terbites helping a young woman work her way through university.
A question on ethics and you think there's no payback? No karma? Did you miss the secret identifiers encrypted in every answer?
 
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