I don't know it is because of the recent Supreme Court decisions or because of the huge number of visiting providers from Montreal and other metropolitan areas I noticed the escorting rates are steadily going down in Ottawa. There was a time when a GFE experience used to cost 200$ to 240$ for an hour and you couldn't get anything cheaper than 180$ but if you look at the current rates there are multiple providers charging 150$ to 160$ going into 180$ and 200$. I even got Greek included in 160$ and 200$ rates. This is striking cause the cost of living us now higher compare to what it was two or three years ago. I was always thinking that why rates in Ottawa are so much higher compare to Montreal which is just a shirt distance away, I guess the market is now adjusting itself. Any ideas, please she'd some light.
Escorting Rates Going Down in Ottawa
- Thread starter Vs_81
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In any case, the future looks good for hobbyists as prices will certainly go lower than those we have now. Decriminalization of prostitution will surely bring more supply. Currently a number of girls would not enter the "profession" because it is still a criminal activity when carried out in incalls or on the streets. The economic crisis is not done yet and some girls may find it profitable to start escorting, which will raise the supply and therefore bring down prices. More Montreal girls are now not "afraid" to come to Ottawa because of the language barrier. Those girls are learning few words and willing to try to work here on occasional basis, and they told me they like Ottawa men. This is all good for us.
Few weeks ago a young girl texted me $100 for hh including greek, which was impossible a couple of years ago.
3 weeks ago I had a nice one hour with a young MTL SP (reviewed here) for 160, including BBBJ, CIM, MSOG and a friendly escort.
3 hours ago, one well reviewed MTL SP texted me back saying she would drop her price from 200h to 180h if I was interested (and I never asked for anything).
All these are good signs that the rates are going down and all SPs will have to adjust to the new rates, otherwise they will vanish.
This trend will not matter for the occasional hobbyist, but personally I like this trend because I hobby very often (in fact I just came back from a session) and with the old prices, it was a bit tough on the wallet of a regular hobbyist.
Few weeks ago a young girl texted me $100 for hh including greek, which was impossible a couple of years ago.
3 weeks ago I had a nice one hour with a young MTL SP (reviewed here) for 160, including BBBJ, CIM, MSOG and a friendly escort.
3 hours ago, one well reviewed MTL SP texted me back saying she would drop her price from 200h to 180h if I was interested (and I never asked for anything).
All these are good signs that the rates are going down and all SPs will have to adjust to the new rates, otherwise they will vanish.
This trend will not matter for the occasional hobbyist, but personally I like this trend because I hobby very often (in fact I just came back from a session) and with the old prices, it was a bit tough on the wallet of a regular hobbyist.
Interesting. I've been seeing sp and mp regularly and haven't noticed this trend, but then again I usually don't book more than 1/2 so I don't pay attention to hr rates. If they are dropping maybe I should.
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Likewise, I have not noticed this trend. The few SPs from Montreal who I have seen or have been seeing are still charging $240/hr -$300/hr.
Here's my take:
It depends where you look and where the sp comes from. If anything mp rates have gone up quite a lot (depending on the parlour) in the last while so I don't visit mps much anymore. Agencies too, if anything are increasing. EH raised a lot of their ladies from $140/$200 to $150/$220 and MGF has increased as well. On the other hand, indies/backpage rates are dropping. Not that long ago $200 seemed to be standard for 1hr where now it's very easy to find $180 and $160, even $150 is being advertised. $100 for hh is almost the norm where $120 or $140 was more common not long ago. Most of the time it's Montreal ladies who offer the lower rates. I assume because rates are lower in Montreal so it's a relatively good deal for them. Toronto sps tend to charge more Toronto rates which are higher.
As far as quality, most sps in Ottawa seem to come from somewhere else, usually Montreal or Toronto. The number of Ottawa sps who actually live here is quite a small percentage, I think. The most popular ladies who can easily fill their calendars in Montreal or Toronto won't waste their time coming here so Ottawa tends to get ladies who come here cause they aren't busy enough in their home cities. Often, there is a reason why they aren't busy in their home cities.
It depends where you look and where the sp comes from. If anything mp rates have gone up quite a lot (depending on the parlour) in the last while so I don't visit mps much anymore. Agencies too, if anything are increasing. EH raised a lot of their ladies from $140/$200 to $150/$220 and MGF has increased as well. On the other hand, indies/backpage rates are dropping. Not that long ago $200 seemed to be standard for 1hr where now it's very easy to find $180 and $160, even $150 is being advertised. $100 for hh is almost the norm where $120 or $140 was more common not long ago. Most of the time it's Montreal ladies who offer the lower rates. I assume because rates are lower in Montreal so it's a relatively good deal for them. Toronto sps tend to charge more Toronto rates which are higher.
As far as quality, most sps in Ottawa seem to come from somewhere else, usually Montreal or Toronto. The number of Ottawa sps who actually live here is quite a small percentage, I think. The most popular ladies who can easily fill their calendars in Montreal or Toronto won't waste their time coming here so Ottawa tends to get ladies who come here cause they aren't busy enough in their home cities. Often, there is a reason why they aren't busy in their home cities.
Yes, rates in Montreal are generally lower so often Montreal ladies leave town because they can charge more in Ottawa, or Toronto. Look at the number of Toronto Mirage sps who are from Montreal, for example. In some cases they almost double their rates in Toronto. However, generally these are quite popular Montreal ladies. Toronto sps often drop their rates coming to Ottawa. EH represents some Mirage sps when they are in Ottawa and they charge less than TO. What you are saying is most accurate for the ladies towards the higher end of the spectrum from Montreal. My point applies more to some who aren't as in demand in Montreal or TO. The most in-demand sps will do well anywhere and can charge more in Toronto or Ottawa than in Montreal, most of the time, anyway.
I've noticed a very slight decline - many of the ladies I used to see were $260 - $280, now $240 or $250. Not a huge decline but every bit helps. It also speaks to the fact that rates haven't gone up either. I guess the market is quite varied as there still some charging $300 to $350 an hour, some with 1 1/2 or 2 hour minimums and they still seem to be surviving.
Well Mykaele from Montreal visits Ottawa quite regularly and she charges on the high-end for a quality service. I think she prefers the clients in Ottawa and there is far less risk of running into someone she knows.The most popular ladies who can easily fill their calendars in Montreal or Toronto won't waste their time coming here so Ottawa tends to get ladies who come here cause they aren't busy enough in their home cities. Often, there is a reason why they aren't busy in their home cities.
If it's the Nordic model, so be it, I don't care because I will stop hobbying altogether. But even in that case the prices would plunge as a lot of people will behave like me and stop hobbying, thus squeezing the demand further.Lol which country are you posting from?, New Zealand? Or better question which planet are you living on lol!!!!! All indications so far pointing to something similar to Nordic model in future Canada and even EU and you are talking about decriminalization during a majority ultra conservative government!!!. I will give that. You are an extreme optimist. Good on you.
Hard to predict what will happen with pricing in Ottawa when the Nordic model is introduced. If we agree that visiting girls from Montreal and maybe Toronto are increasing supply (and thus lowering prices), they are the ones most likely to be heavily impacted. Under the Nordic model you don't go see that brand new girl on BP 'up from Montreal' because she could very well be a cop. Instead you see an established girl who is more likely to be local. Thus while demand will drop here Ottawa, so will overall supply here in Ottawa. Of course some girls that visit have established reputations because they visit regularly. However as they retire they will drop off. However with every change new opportunities open. I can see multi-city agencies becoming popular again because they could provide the assurances that the girls are true escorts. However you won't see the girls that work for agencies in Montreal pop up to Ottawa under a different name as independents less often. In short, I truly don't what will happen with pricing here in Ottawa because of these factors.
I`d think the same claim can be made to lump the `maybe` vote in with the `yes` vote to then make the claim that less than one third say they will quit. Statistically most of the `maybe` votes tend to split along the decided votes which would put approximately 60% at least remaining in the hobby. I also think the poll is more likely a bit of scare tactic on behalf of hobbyists who want to spur the various sex worker lobby groups to step up and lobby the government against this bill.OFF, in a poll conducted on terb in the lounge when asked if you continue to hobby if Nordic model becomes law less than one-third (30%) said they would remain (which even that I doubt it once there will be a few high profile arrests and trials)
https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...A-Nordic-Model-is-Implemented-In-Canada/page7
Do you really think that the ads from touring SPs would fall so much that supply side in Ottawa would fall at least by 70% to compensate for loss of demand?. Especially when advertising for services in any type or form would likely become legal. I seriously doubt that. There will be significant price drop though I hope we never see that. I prefer current laws/current prices.
I expect that demand will drop fairly significantly at first. Guys will want to see what level of zeal various police forces decide to use and what types of precedents get established. As I`ve said in other threads the true likelihood of an indoor hobbyist getting busted other than through a targeted sting or being in a known bawdy house will be very low. Even now sting operations - cops posing as prostitutes is mostly done based on complaints to deal with street level prostitution. Having cops setup an indoor sex worker sting just to trap guys is a pretty stupid waste of police resources. I`m not saying it won`t be done and fear of it will certainly cause me to never see a provider that wasn`t already vouched for in some way. People will adapt, new verifications (except now to verify ladies instead of guys) will come up. Even in Sweden they don`t really know if indoor sex work has declined.
We agree demand will drop, we just don`t know exactly how much and for how long. I think you`ll see price drops in both Montreal and Toronto. I`m just saying I don`t think the drop will be as dramatic in Ottawa as an unusually high percent of our supply is touring girls who will stop coming here unless they have an established reputation (due to guys not seeing them as a result of concerns over sting operations). On this I`m talking at least in the short term. On the longer term more women may try to enter (as it won`t be illegal for them) and touring girls may use or create new verification methods.
Hey, I`d love to be wrong, I`d love to see a big price drop as I do believe that if one sees only ladies that are vouched as being true escorts that the odds of a conviction are virtually zilch. Nobody talks about it in Sweden but the conviction rate there is extremely low. People are busted during setup operations and if you think the police are going to manage to barge into a hotel at the moment you set that stack of cash down then you`re mistaken. Despite all the hysteria about girls turning guys in or blackmailing them the reality is the opposite. No girl wants will want a rep of co-operating with the police or even the hassle of going to testify. Whatever your occupation, just think if it became illegal for people to buy your services would you ever want to get known as someone who cooperates with LE?
We all have run various risks - risks of a bust of being in a bawdy house (before the SCC decision), risk of an STD, risk of being caught by SO`s, risk of being blackmailed to our SO`s. This hobby is all about risk management and once those risks are known, they will be managed and guys will participate. I fully understand you have a risk threshold of almost 0% and will among those that stop. I also know others that will too. However I won`t be one.
Criminalizing prostitution outright - whole new ballgame.
On the other hand while I am appalled at the idea of the Nordic model in terms of women`s rights over their own sexuality and how it will place them it at risk, I do see it benefiting via lower prices.
The poll question is "Will you quit hobbying if the Nordic model is introduced in Canada?"
44% say "No"
This means 44% will continue to see escorts. This is not as you state above of 44% saying they will quit. According to the poll, only 31% are saying they will quit.
Looking at the numbers, of 102 people that answered yes or no, 60 were saying they won't quit and 42 were saying they will. Thus its about 60/40 or 2/3 of decided people saying they won't quit. If the 'undecided' follow the statistically normal pattern of maintaining this 60/40 split then 66% of the remaining 25% will continue to see escorts which is 16.5%. So 44% + 16.5% = 60.5%.
In terms of the risks I seriously doubt LE will initiate prosecution based on finding evidence in a series of texts. Any good lawyer will simply have the client said that when he got to the room he changed his mind. The women is simply not going to want to be involved in getting dragged into court and she too will deny the encounter occurred.
I just don't see blackmail becoming an issue. The exposure to the women is not only the legal risks but also the exposure to the whole world via a potential trial that she was an escort. Blackmail to the press or an SO is already an existing risk. I don't see the addition of blackmail to the police adding to that risk. I think it is worse because the women would be going to the police themselves with the accusation that the guy paid for sex. This is private and all he has to do is show one email or text containing the blackmail and poof - she is arrested and there is nothing against him. Given most guys are not going to answer phone calls from escorts they just saw I can't see attempts at making purely verbal blackmail threats successful. It would at least need to start out with something like 'call me at xxx-xxxx or else'. Also girls on the desperate end are not likely to be this sophisticated. Finally I think guys will more careful about who they see. This is different from stopping completely. I seriously don't see LE pursuing cases of sex purchasing that occurred in the past and has only side (at most) alleging the act took place.
However I do agree that these are the things that will go through peoples heads and thus, yes, demand will initially drop off. Once news of actual facts surrounding some of these scenarios start to emerge, then demand will adjust. Even though I discount the risks you mention I too will initially stick with girls I've seen and know I can trust. If you're risks prove out and LE start prosecuting based on texts or a women making a complaint then yes demand will drop significantly on a permanent basis until these types of things wind through the courts and eventually back to the SCC. However if those risks don't prove to be true then demand will rise again.
44% say "No"
This means 44% will continue to see escorts. This is not as you state above of 44% saying they will quit. According to the poll, only 31% are saying they will quit.
Looking at the numbers, of 102 people that answered yes or no, 60 were saying they won't quit and 42 were saying they will. Thus its about 60/40 or 2/3 of decided people saying they won't quit. If the 'undecided' follow the statistically normal pattern of maintaining this 60/40 split then 66% of the remaining 25% will continue to see escorts which is 16.5%. So 44% + 16.5% = 60.5%.
In terms of the risks I seriously doubt LE will initiate prosecution based on finding evidence in a series of texts. Any good lawyer will simply have the client said that when he got to the room he changed his mind. The women is simply not going to want to be involved in getting dragged into court and she too will deny the encounter occurred.
I just don't see blackmail becoming an issue. The exposure to the women is not only the legal risks but also the exposure to the whole world via a potential trial that she was an escort. Blackmail to the press or an SO is already an existing risk. I don't see the addition of blackmail to the police adding to that risk. I think it is worse because the women would be going to the police themselves with the accusation that the guy paid for sex. This is private and all he has to do is show one email or text containing the blackmail and poof - she is arrested and there is nothing against him. Given most guys are not going to answer phone calls from escorts they just saw I can't see attempts at making purely verbal blackmail threats successful. It would at least need to start out with something like 'call me at xxx-xxxx or else'. Also girls on the desperate end are not likely to be this sophisticated. Finally I think guys will more careful about who they see. This is different from stopping completely. I seriously don't see LE pursuing cases of sex purchasing that occurred in the past and has only side (at most) alleging the act took place.
However I do agree that these are the things that will go through peoples heads and thus, yes, demand will initially drop off. Once news of actual facts surrounding some of these scenarios start to emerge, then demand will adjust. Even though I discount the risks you mention I too will initially stick with girls I've seen and know I can trust. If you're risks prove out and LE start prosecuting based on texts or a women making a complaint then yes demand will drop significantly on a permanent basis until these types of things wind through the courts and eventually back to the SCC. However if those risks don't prove to be true then demand will rise again.
Ah yes, CH, but speculation on what might be versus the reality of actual laws could very well illicit a very different response if/when the time comes. It's like asking if you would cheat on your taxes; I'm sure most would say yes, but never actually go through with it given the laws and audits in place. All I'm saying is that it depends on what laws are enacted and how they are enforced. Viewpoints change very quickly given reality.It is though surprising to me to see the high percentage who has voted yes they would stay in the hobby after purchase of sex becomes criminal. Very brave hobbyists I would say.
I suspect that with a Nordic model the prices for established providers will go up, especially as they may need to spend extra money providing a more discreet service for their clients. At the same time, the ones getting started with their first Backpage ad will probably have to cut prices to attract LE-wary clients.
M
Moderator
in Sweden when the Nordic model was introduced demand dropped but mostly the drop in demand was for street level workers.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/01/03/the-nordic-model-of-prostitution-law-is-a-myth/
Demand for indoor escorts was not affected very much.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2014/01/03/the-nordic-model-of-prostitution-law-is-a-myth/
Demand for indoor escorts was not affected very much.
OFF your are assuming that with the new laws there is no political will to hit prostitution at the municipal level or even higher levels as prov and federal govts can influence the municipal levels (as seen lately with police raids in incall places Canada wide). If the Conservatives are in power and want to show that they can protect communities (e.g. the Safe Streets and Communities act and its effect on places where drug users can safely inject), they can decide to hit hard on prostitution and yes in that case they will fund sting operations and publicize any big fish they catch. If the objective of the law is to hit the demand, they will have to prove to the electorate that the law they passed is working, and that will come only after there is a real perception in the community that the level of prostitution has really and significantly dropped. Once you hit prostitution hard, a number of established and known SPs will simply retire because there is less money to be made but new young girls will still enter the market ('cause it is still better than working at McDonald), which makes the information (on the SPs) in the market more and more opaque, therefore increasing the risk for clients which will squeeze the demand even further.
So the portrait will probably be "a lot of younger girls with small proportion of clients who are risk takers or clients who already have a criminal record and therefore have noting to loose if caught". Not to mention that we will see a lot of under-age girls entering on their own too because some under age girls are not entering the market now because of the "illegality" of prostitution. So if you get caught, you might be facing several charges including sex with an under-age girl. In this case prices will be significantly lower as the new young girls will compare the prices of prostitution to the salaries they get from waitressing or similar jobs. So I think the Nordic model will encourage more prostitution not less, unless you hit VERY hard on the demand.
The sex workers' associations succeeded in striking the current laws, arguing about the safety of prostitutes. With the Nordic model, the govt is attacking their wallets and livelihood; this is very sneaky and typical of this govt. All in all, if the Nordic model is adopted it's a loss for sex workers and not a gain as the present laws at least preserve their livelihood. So with the Nordic model the govt is saying to sex workers you are safe now but you will be very poor.
I am a long time hobbyist ad personally the risks outweigh the benefits by a LOT, so no hobby for me in Canada at all with the Nordic model.
So the portrait will probably be "a lot of younger girls with small proportion of clients who are risk takers or clients who already have a criminal record and therefore have noting to loose if caught". Not to mention that we will see a lot of under-age girls entering on their own too because some under age girls are not entering the market now because of the "illegality" of prostitution. So if you get caught, you might be facing several charges including sex with an under-age girl. In this case prices will be significantly lower as the new young girls will compare the prices of prostitution to the salaries they get from waitressing or similar jobs. So I think the Nordic model will encourage more prostitution not less, unless you hit VERY hard on the demand.
The sex workers' associations succeeded in striking the current laws, arguing about the safety of prostitutes. With the Nordic model, the govt is attacking their wallets and livelihood; this is very sneaky and typical of this govt. All in all, if the Nordic model is adopted it's a loss for sex workers and not a gain as the present laws at least preserve their livelihood. So with the Nordic model the govt is saying to sex workers you are safe now but you will be very poor.
I am a long time hobbyist ad personally the risks outweigh the benefits by a LOT, so no hobby for me in Canada at all with the Nordic model.
If the Nordic model is adopted then hobbying in the States (cheaper than Mexico) will be much less risky than hobbying in Canada. At least in the States, prostitutes will loose something if they are caught with you, and therefore all the blackmail, lack of discretion and BS will not be there in the USA. I will probably go to the US for my hobbying activities (faster and cheaper than other countries).
I am not sure about that. I heard some reps from the Status of Women around this issue and they seemed pretty extremists to me.(Feminism is alive and active but not extreme in Canada) and the fact that we have different culture and laws like having a Charter of Rights and Freedom we are all proud of
Under the Nordic model, true escorts (those involved in the business on an on-going basis as a means of earning money) have a lot to lose if one of their client's is caught and charged. The reputation is that they are dangerous to see effectively destroys their reputation and livelihood. The experiences in Sweden is that escorts are not willing to co-operate with police for both this reason as well as the reason they don't want to have to appear in court. I don't know what you do for a living but if it suddenly became illegal for your clients to buy your services would you want to be known as someone who co-operates with the police? The experiences in Sweden also show that the known escorts became the target of police harassment, searches of their belongings for items like condoms for proof that their clients were paying for sex. This made them even more underground and 'discrete' than the current situation here in Canada.If the Nordic model is adopted then hobbying in the States (cheaper than Mexico) will be much less risky than hobbying in Canada. At least in the States, prostitutes will loose something if they are caught with you, and therefore all the blackmail, lack of discretion and BS will not be there in the USA. I will probably go to the US for my hobbying activities (faster and cheaper than other countries).
As I've also stated, the fear of blackmail is ridiculous. Today blackmail is an issue and the threat is that the SP would go to your spouse. For you to fight this blackmail you would first have to deal with your spouse and then somehow track down and find the real life identity of SP in question which would not be easy (she is after all, blackmailing you) and go to the police. However to blackmail you under the Nordic model she would first have to make the threat. As long as you never give or use your real phone (which should already be standard practice), she has no way of communicating that threat. If your hobby phone rings (and who ever has the ringer on?), don't ever answer it. The would-be blackmailer then would need to leave a message, send you a text or send an email message. If this ever happened you just ignore it and if she goes to the cops (and thus self-reveals her real world identity), you simply deny the act and the show the proof of blackmail. Guess who will be getting arrested? This is also all under the assumption that the cops would even arrest you a women alleged that you paid her for sex. I don't see the police arresting for acts that they didn't witness and have only one side making the claim. They need to convince a crown attorney that they have a reasonable chance of getting a conviction. I just don't see this happening.
When the Nordic model is introduced, simply stay off the bleeding edge of finding the new and hidden gems of providers. Stick with girls that have been verified and established. If you go to the US and see bleeding edge providers you run the risk of sting operations. If you see established providers you'll be running no higher risk than you will in Canada.
My bet is also that the under the Nordic model demand will drop (amount is debatable) and supply will slightly increase, thus causing a drop in prices (certainly that has been the experience elsewhere although establishing a true cause-effect relationship is difficult). Where it is fully illegal, it tends to be more expensive for the ladies to compensate for their risk of arrest.
You're making some logical points, but you may have forgotten that not everyone is logical! Even today without the Nordic law, I have been blackmailed. There are bad apples in the barrel who are just driven by greed and short-sightedness.Under the Nordic model, true escorts (those involved in the business on an on-going basis as a means of earning money) have a lot to lose if one of their client's is caught and charged. The reputation is that they are dangerous to see effectively destroys their reputation and livelihood. As I've also stated, the fear of blackmail is ridiculous.
Scenario: imagine a nice and somewhat nervous gut goes into the hotel room. The SP is a bad character and sees someone to prey on, so as soon as she gets the money she tells him to leave or else she'll call the cops. This would work on a lot of guys who would be afraid of the risk of challenging her. So that teaches her to do it again, and so on until finally news spreads. Then she changes her name and goes to the next city . . . .
