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Elizabeth Warren Ancestor Rounded Up Cherokees For Trail of Tears

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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Reminds me of that 23 and Me or Ancestry.com commercial where the dude who thinks he has German ancestry turns out to be genetically Scottish. Fact is, people often think they have a certain ancestry which turns out to be untrue.
Somehow when this woman said the same sort of thing most everyone says about their ancestry, it was blown up into a huge deal by the GOP Candidate and his Snow Flurries, and he and they have made sure it still is to this day. No wonder they attract the even nastier racists with the torches and swastikas.

Sadly she fell for his stupid $2 test ploy, not realizing that no 'proof' can ever be good enough to satisfy believers in the myths of race, and those who exploit and manipulate the believers.
 

Bud Plug

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Somehow when this woman said the same sort of thing most everyone says about their ancestry, it was blown up into a huge deal by the GOP Candidate and his Snow Flurries, and he and they have made sure it still is to this day. No wonder they attract the even nastier racists with the torches and swastikas.

Sadly she fell for his stupid $2 test ploy, not realizing that no 'proof' can ever be good enough to satisfy believers in the myths of race, and those who exploit and manipulate the believers.
I would have thought you would have approved of Trump's efforts to de-weaponize the identity politics that Warren practices by exposing her laughable claim. Sounds like you think race should not play a part in politics, given its dubious relevance (or even existence). Or do I misread you?
 

Promo

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Leftists Attack Cherokee Nation For Criticizing Elizabeth Warren


http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=59210


leftists have no problem with white leftists stealing from and scamming black Americans(Shaun King) and Native Americans
Just C-M posting more fake information. Google the picture, it's from 2 years ago and has nothing to do with this story. I checked a 4 tweets against the originals ..... would it surprise anyone that 2 of them were modified from the original tweets?

Canada-man: righties have no problem with righties (white or black) stealing, scamming and lying-to black americans and Native Americans. Clearly you don't either.
 

Aardvark154

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Reminds me of that 23 and Me or Ancestry.com commercial where the dude who thinks he has German ancestry turns out to be genetically Scottish. Fact is, people often think they have a certain ancestry which turns out to be untrue.
But what does the man in the commercial say "When I first got on Ancestry I was surprised that I wasn't finding all these Germans in my tree." So basically he is using classical genealogy*, then --it is an advertisement after all, he decides to use Ancestry DNA, to double check what genealogy has already shown.

Senator Warren on the other hand stopped with the opening line "Growing up we were German." Seemingly she never did her own genealogical research, nor did she employ professional genealogists. If she had she wouldn't have been taken unaware by all of this, or at least she would have made her statements more accurate -- there is an unsubstantiated family tradition that my great-great-great grandmother Sarah Smith had native ancestry.


* It's a commercial, but then he should confirm what the leafs have to say using original documents.
 

oldjones

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I would have thought you would have approved of Trump's efforts to de-weaponize the identity politics that Warren practices by exposing her laughable claim. Sounds like you think race should not play a part in politics, given its dubious relevance (or even existence). Or do I misread you?
What I saw was him going after Pochahontas with all his meanest, nastiest attacks over the most ordinary sort of inconsequential sharing of her personal history, making the most of it he could. The very opposite of de-weaponizing. If Donny was against identity politics, he wouldn't have dared her to take a $2 test. But he's no such thing. Saying so is like claiming your white supremacist rally is against racism, because that's what some other guys said about theirs.

If you're only just now realizing I despise the spurious concept of the existence of races and their comparisons, particularly in politics, then I need to try a whole lot harder. But until Americans stop making official documents where you have to fill in such crap, we're stuck with talking about races as if they were real.
 

Aardvark154

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^ Of course another point of irony is that Pochahontas (Rebecca Rolfe) and her husband have a great many descendants among them James Webb, former U.S. Senator and Secretary of the Navy; Edward Norton, actor and director; Edith (née Bolling) Wilson (2nd wife of Woodrow Wilson); and Rear Admiral Richard Byrd, U.S.N. Even people who voted for President Trump.

The President's misappropriation of her name is for lack of a better term inappropriate!
 

Bud Plug

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What I saw was him going after Pochahontas with all his meanest, nastiest attacks over the most ordinary sort of inconsequential sharing of her personal history, making the most of it he could.
Her sharing of "her history" would have been inconsequential had she not relied upon it for: a) recognition as a law professor, and, later, b) political capital among liberal voters (who are very much into identity politics).

Sadly, all we really learned about Elizabeth Warren in this debacle is that, apparently, she comes from a long line of liars.
 

oldjones

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Her sharing of "her history" would have been inconsequential had she not relied upon it for: a) recognition as a law professor, and, later, b) political capital among liberal voters (who are very much into identity politics).

Sadly, all we really learned about Elizabeth Warren in this debacle is that, apparently, she comes from a long line of liars.
I believe you'll find it was actually Harvard that 'relied' on it, but that they ( and she, if you are correct) did so entirely within the rules, exactly as her presidential attacker did in claiming he was bankrupt to avoid paying his creditors, which he says is 'smart'.

You call him corrupt, and I'll agree she was. The same goes for what the two pols chose to say to their respective voters (for his idea of political capital I'll offer 'smart' again) but really… Have you never listened to politicians?

Since the term 'liberal voters' includes whatever you choose, if you say they're into 'identity' politics so be it. I'm kinda wondering though: How do you 'identify' that class of citizens? By their 'identity' cards? And why are you into that identity stuff?
 

bver_hunter

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Trump and his family are the biggest line of liars. We know that Trump has made around 4000 lies, misstatements and very dodgy statements about everything relating to his family life, sexual molestation allegations, seedy business dealings, political policies pertaining to Russia / Saudi Arabia, Bank / Tax fraudulent limelights, and lastly Birther movement falsehoods including his own blatant lies about his ancestral ties to Sweden. His base are okay with it, but go ballistic when Warren had proved that she has ancestral ties to Native Americans albeit 6 to 10 generations ago!!
 

Bud Plug

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And why are you into that stuff?
I think a lot of people are amused by stories about well known moralizers who are proven (or even accused of, as in the case of Roy Moore) to be hypocrites. Warren puts herself forward as a straight shooting defender of the little man (from banks, etc.) who believes in open borders, that diversity is always good, and women should always be believed. Of course it's amusing to find that she's a female liar, falsely claims association with an historically disadvantaged group, is about as diverse in her background as medieval English royalty, and doesn't mind bending rules if it's to her advantage.

I wouldn't like her policy positions any better if she were 100% Cherokee, but her hypocrisy amuses me.

It's also interesting to me how the Democrats are not cutting her loose after this embarrassment (meaning, making it clear she would lack support to run for President). They need her to shut up fast if they are going change the conversation in to lock down the House (I think they have no shot at the Senate), especially if they want to make impeachment a real threat (of course, actual impeachment proceedings would never fly in the Senate, but the threat of it gives them leverage with Trump) . This self destructive tendency of the Democrats (and the left in general) also amuses me.
 

oldjones

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I think a lot of people are amused by stories about well known moralizers who are proven (or even accused of, as in the case of Roy Moore) to be hypocrites. Warren puts herself forward as a straight shooting defender of the little man (from banks, etc.) who believes in open borders, that diversity is always good, and women should always be believed. Of course it's amusing to find that she's a female liar, falsely claims association with an historically disadvantaged group, is about as diverse in her background as medieval English royalty, and doesn't mind bending rules if it's to her advantage.

I wouldn't like her policy positions any better if she were 100% Cherokee, but her hypocrisy amuses me.

It's also interesting to me how the Democrats are not cutting her loose after this embarrassment (meaning, making it clear she would lack support to run for President). They need her to shut up fast if they are going change the conversation in to lock down the House (I think they have no shot at the Senate), especially if they want to make impeachment a real threat (of course, actual impeachment proceedings would never fly in the Senate, but the threat of it gives them leverage with Trump) . This self destructive tendency of the Democrats (and the left in general) also amuses me.
Thanks for the response. Even if it ignored identity politics, and your own style of it, which I was actually asking about, it was entertaining.

American party politics, not so much.
 

Promo

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I'm curious as to how many of you have used the AncestryDNA or 23andMe services? Let's stop the bullshit and be honest for a minute.

I got AncestryDNA as a Christmas present and got the results in March. Based on a professional genealogical search, I already knew my background to about 10 generations back. The AncestryDNA results showed the same authenticities, but not at the same % I expected.

DNA doesn't lie, but the AncestryDNA or 23andMe databases are being continually updated and refined. I just rechecked my results and my % mixes changed by as much as 20% on 5 of the regional categories, getting closer to the genealogical search.

Sooo, I ask my fellow terbites who have used these services, have you looked at updated results lately and did they change by more than 10%? Does that make you think about Warren's results and how this is still not an exact science?
 

Bud Plug

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I'm curious as to how many of you have used the AncestryDNA or 23andMe services? Let's stop the bullshit and be honest for a minute.

I got AncestryDNA as a Christmas present and got the results in March. Based on a professional genealogical search, I already knew my background to about 10 generations back. The AncestryDNA results showed the same authenticities, but not at the same % I expected.

DNA doesn't lie, but the AncestryDNA or 23andMe databases are being continually updated and refined. I just rechecked my results and my % mixes changed by as much as 20% on 5 of the regional categories, getting closer to the genealogical search.

Sooo, I ask my fellow terbites who have used these services, have you looked at updated results lately and did they change by more than 10%? Does that make you think about Warren's results and how this is still not an exact science?
I haven't had the test, but my son has, and yes, you are absolutely correct. Same experience.
 

Darts

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Jan 15, 2017
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oldjones

CanBarelyRe Member
Aug 18, 2001
24,495
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38
I'm curious as to how many of you have used the AncestryDNA or 23andMe services? Let's stop the bullshit and be honest for a minute.

I got AncestryDNA as a Christmas present and got the results in March. Based on a professional genealogical search, I already knew my background to about 10 generations back. The AncestryDNA results showed the same authenticities, but not at the same % I expected.

DNA doesn't lie, but the AncestryDNA or 23andMe databases are being continually updated and refined. I just rechecked my results and my % mixes changed by as much as 20% on 5 of the regional categories, getting closer to the genealogical search.

Sooo, I ask my fellow terbites who have used these services, have you looked at updated results lately and did they change by more than 10%? Does that make you think about Warren's results and how this is still not an exact science?
Bingo! At close range, your DNA can identify you and verify how close is your family connection to relatives who have submitted theirs. But the further you go back up the generations the exponentially larger the number of contributors, and the greater the uncertainty how or when you and any other individuals acquired the bit of DNA you share.

At some point all that can be stated with certainty is that x percent of your DNA is common among the folks who lived and interbred together in a given bit of geography, over a given range of time. Which is how the geneticist was able to say that 'between here and here in the family tree', Warren did have at least one ancestor who contributed Native American DNA as late as she says, or others earlier but could not be more specific about the generation or nation.

As far as proof goes, it establishes her story, as it was told to her could indeed be true, according to the DNA. Those looking to disprove it need some other evidence than genetics.
 

oldjones

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Aug 18, 2001
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^ Of course another point of irony is that Pochahontas (Rebecca Rolfe) and her husband have a great many descendants among them James Webb, former U.S. Senator and Secretary of the Navy; Edward Norton, actor and director; Edith (née Bolling) Wilson (2nd wife of Woodrow Wilson); and Rear Admiral Richard Byrd, U.S.N. Even people who voted for President Trump.

The President's misappropriation of her name is for lack of a better term inappropriate!
For a better term, try 'scummy', but his audience lapped it up and cheered.
 

Aardvark154

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Jan 19, 2006
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Bingo! At close range, your DNA can identify you and verify how close is your family connection to relatives who have submitted theirs. But the further you go back up the generations the exponentially larger the number of contributors, and the greater the uncertainty how or when you and any other individuals acquired the bit of DNA you share.

At some point all that can be stated with certainty is that x percent of your DNA is common among the folks who lived and interbred together in a given bit of geography, over a given range of time. Which is how the geneticist was able to say that 'between here and here in the family tree', Warren did have at least one ancestor who contributed Native American DNA as late as she says, or others earlier but could not be more specific about the generation or nation. . . .
Two further points the gold standard are still: wills, church records, port books and the like, and more recently public records: censuses, birth, marriage and death records. Further, one shouldn't overstate their case.
 
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