There is a BIKE LANE at this point which I was traveling in, and I was RIGHT beside her. Since she had JUST passed me... she should have also known I was there. She cut me off... It's really not that difficult to understand, unless you believe the roads belong strictly to cars.benstt said:
Drivers cause 90% of accidents with bikes
- Thread starter staggerspool
- Start date
Sorry. Being beside you is different. I'm not the only one who wondered when you said she turned 'in front of you'.Cycleguy007 said:
I do not believe roads belong to cars. I cycle as well.
I do question the interpretations that some cyclists put on the rules of the road.
No worries... but I figured it was rather obvious when I said "I slammed my brakes to avoid hitting her..." This would seem to indicate it was not safe for her to make the right hand turn in front of me.benstt said:
Carry on...
The typical illegal car move is to pass the cyclist and then immediately turn right in front of them, leaving the cyclist no time to react or do anything other than smash into the side of the car.benstt said:
Car drivers appear not to understand that a bike lane is an actual lane and that turning right across a bike lane requires the same care and caution as turning right across a normal traffic lane.
Worse, many motorists will do this even when no bike lane is present--they will overtake a cyclist in the same lane and then turn right in front of them suddenly. Moreover, aside from danger from cars making illegal right turns, if a cyclist follows the HTA exactly and sticks to the edge of the lane then MOST motorists will attempt to pass the cyclist at an illegal and unsafe distance, often just inches, to avoid having to pull out into the lane to their left while passing the cyclist.
As a result of this mortal danger cyclists more or less HAVE to move out left and take control of the entire right-most traffic lane, then selectively choose when to allow motor vehicles to pass by pulling right to let them by. Motorists who have to cross a lane boundary in order to pass a cyclist tend to be far more cautious and attentive in executing that pass, which is safer for everyone.
Motorists who view someone doing this as an "asshole cyclist" should realize that cyclists who do not control the lane have a high chance of being killed by an asshole driver.
Excellent point, I started cycling around the city this summer after not doing this for several years. I swear I would be dead now if I hadn't taken over entire lanes, especially on busier streets like Yonge, King and Queen.fuji said:
Glad to have the misunderstanding cleared up. It wasn't obvious to me as I can easily keep up with the speed of traffic, even exceed it if my lane happens to open up for a bit so I've had to "slam on my brakes" on occasion when someone has moved into my lane (legally) and then proceeded to make a right turn (again legally even if they could have let me by before moving over <grin>).Cycleguy007 said:
EXACTLY! But... (you knew there was a but didn't you...)fuji said:
Since MOST drivers are of the belief that when we do this, WE (as cyclists) are the assholes taking up a full lane, WE are the ones at risk when the ASSHOLE DRIVERS pass within inches, narrowly missing us (or in the case of larger vehicles, possibly getting us caught up in their draft), and since as I have said on more than one occasion now that MY SAFETY IS MY RESPONSIBILITY regardless of what the law says.... I will never win an arguement with a 1-2 ton piece of swiftly moving metal!
This being the case, and since I value my life.... I choose to stay OFF city streets as much as possible. I know however that not all cyclists have that option... and I am thankful that I do not have the need to ride streets like Yonge, King and Queen.
Sure you do, you can ride on the sidewalk!Cycleguy007 said:
Moreover you can ride on the sidewalk safely, and in a way that is courteous to pedestrians. Namely, pass pedestrians at a walking speed, never, ever whiz by them at speed. If the pedestrian in front of you doesn't notice you, then slow right down to their speed or even slower and follow them at a safe distance until they notice you.
Cyclists who ride that way on the sidewalk merge in seemlessly with pedestrians and are no risk whatsoever to anyone--the only problem is in the City of Toronto you face a bylaw fine, but if riding on the road is completely unsafe then maybe it is best to pay the fine.
Outside the City of Toronto it's perfectly acceptable for bicycles to ride on the sidewalk, it's not illegal anywhere else, and even in Toronto it's only a bylaw.
Of course if you can ride on a more bike friendly road that's preferable to either controlling a lane on a busy street or riding on the sidewalk.
The law says they have to. Realistically if they slow down to a walking speed as they pass by then there isn't any risk to anyone. That is illegal, but it's not unsafe.blofeld said:
No doubt some of the cyclists passing the streetcar weren't doing that, and were passing at speed--as with my post above about riding on the sidewalk I think cycling past a pedestrian area is perfectly safe ONLY if you cycle at a pedestrian speed. Even in areas where it is perfectly legal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk you're still an asshole if you fly by a pedestrian doing 20 clicks, not to mention putting both their life and yours in danger.
At walking speed you can react as quickly as anyone walking can to someone stepping out, and if you run into anyone at that speed it'll be more embarassing than harmful. At faster speeds of course a cyclist who darts past a pedestrian is a danger to themselves and others.
It's not a big deal to slow down on a bicycle; it IS a big deal to stop. It takes a lot of effort to regain the inertia lost from a full stop. It takes an asshole not to slow down to a reasonable speed.
The law of course clearly calls some of this perfectly safe behavior illegal. Equally some perfectly legal behavior is retarded and highly unsafe.
As I have said on a number of occasions, I do not ride on sidewalks... What you are describing is in my opinion counter productive to my style of riding, not to mention (I believe) mostly said "tongue-in-cheek". LOLfuji said:
I am most often a trail rider. I am fortunate to live in a city that has a whole network of trails throughout the city and I make use of them when ever possible. I have also recently started riding on country roads, where traffic is also rarely an issue. Since I live on the edge of the city, getting to and from the country roads necessitates very little "city street" riding at all.
I thought I would share this with everyone interested since it is important information to know. I read this in the Star yesterday where a reporter asks a police officer a few questions about bikes and cars on the road:
Q: Many cycling accidents occur at intersections when cars are turning right. Who has the right of way?
A: The trick is waiting your turn, and that applies to cyclists as well as motorists, says Smith. Chclists should not pass cars on the right. Thbe safest tactic is to behave just as a car would- stay behind a car that is signalling right, or to the left of it. If a car reaches the intersection first, let it turn before advancing on your bike. For drivers, the same waiting rule applies: If a bike reaches the intersection first, and the cyclist signals a right turn, the motorist should wait behind the bike and let it turn first.
Makes sense to me, we need more public education on this, not may occupants of the roads know this based on my experience, I've seen many near misses. Hope this helps.
I do believe that roads belong strictly to cars. I hate the fact that every time I fill up my gas tank, approximately 45% of the cost goes to supposedly pay for roads, whereas bike riders don't pay anything directly to cover road costs. I realize that all the money stolen by the government is in fact pooled together and siphoned off, but I'm talking directly being taxed for road usage here.
I find bike riders who used the road cause such chaos as everyone tries to avoid them as they use up 20% of the right lane. When the cars start wandering into the left lane to avoid them, it always creates a bit of panic.
I find bike riders who used the road cause such chaos as everyone tries to avoid them as they use up 20% of the right lane. When the cars start wandering into the left lane to avoid them, it always creates a bit of panic.
THIS ^^^^^^^ attitude is PRECISELY why I avoid riding in traffic if at all possible! Judging by many of the drivers I encounter when I DO have to ride on roads, I would say this attitude is rampant amongst drivers.
FYI... I am ALSO a DRIVER and have been for almost 30 years. I get raped by the government everytime I fill up my gas tank and so does my wife and as will my children when THEY start driving. I pay my taxes and pay for insurance etc. so I have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT to ride on these roads as you do Mr. mb12ca!
Again, although I HAVE THE RIGHT to ride on roads, I also have a RESPONSIBILITY for my own safety, and I will NEVER win an argument while on my bike with a car, so... due to drivers with the above attitude... I choose to avoid this situation as much as possible.
Sheesh!!!!!!
The gas tax doesn't NEARLY cover the damage your car does to the environment. It doesn't even cover the full cost of the roads; nothing is contributed to cover the harm to future generations. In fact those members of society who do NOT drive cars subsidize those who do, as a result of this effect.
If car drivers were to pay their fair share of the resources that they consume in our society the gas tax would have to double or triple.
If car drivers were to pay their fair share of the resources that they consume in our society the gas tax would have to double or triple.
You're wrong here.
In cities, roads are funded through municipal, chiefly property, taxes.
The tax on gas is to go to highways, roads that are most often not shared by cyclists.
On top of that, you assume that all cyclists do not drive also. I bike, but own and run a car as well. Biking in town is faster, cheaper, makes me feel better (since I don't go to a gym) and helps keep the overall traffic and parking levels a little less crowded.
