Drivers cause 90% of accidents with bikes
- Thread starter staggerspool
- Start date
Sorry I cut this so it would be private, you beat me to it. I guess you were revising your reply.SecretRendezvous said:
I should have been clearer. I just want to caution you that if you upset someone, your phone number is right there. I am not at all interested, but if you get on the case of the wrong guy, it might not be hard for him to track you down. You would never know why this guy is so hostile.
I'm really trying to help you out here. I dont know you, don't want to, will never contact you, we will never meet. We are disagreed on this issue, end of relationship.
LOL... Yes, she is... it is one of her many hidden talents! ;-)tboy said:
I'm just messing with Cydney... she seems like a lot of fun! ;-)
1 pm today? Sorry- no can do, I'm off for a ride and a kayak now... care to join me?SecretRendezvous said:
Do you see the business I am in? I don't even want to bother this one. Thanks for your concern.staggerspool said:
Cycleguy007 said:LOL... Yes, she is... it is one of her many hidden talents! ;-)
I'm just messing with Cydney... she seems like a lot of fun! ;-)
1 pm today? Sorry- no can do, I off for a ride and a kayak now... care to join me?
I only DATY in a kayak. No head.
It is this new Union Rule. Sorry.
staggerspool said:
You are sounding more like you are making threats then just "helping" out.
Should I bow down to you out of fear now? Is that your point?
Typical Cyclist. Everyone should do as you say and stay the hell out of your way.
Sorry guys, I have to leave now. Staggerspool is going to hunt me down if I don't.
Enjoy the rest of your holiday Monday boys, I am going to go get dined on for while.
Well, one last time for everyone who has trouble reading, I am not threatening anyone, simply pointing out that this person is putting themselves in a position where, should they piss off the wrong person, they might be vulnerable. Clearly this is above the head of the poster. I post this so reasonable people cannot misunderstand this situation. I am not threatening nor am I suggesting anyone else threaten this person. From what I can see, they are likely to generate lots of negativity all by themselves, no need for me to help. I hit a nerve in this person, I'm sure others will have the same experience. Hopefully they will be kind.SecretRendezvous said:
Perhaps this discussion is useful for other service providers, to demonstrate how not to use this board. But then, most of them have some common sense.
The point of this thread was to put a little objectivity into the car/bike discussions. I don't know that it worked, but thanks for reading, I'm off on my bike.
Staggerspool, take a deep breath, sit back, relax, and take your meds.
Your aggressive posting rampage has no one interested in debating with you, you're just an online bully, evening picking on a cute woman who just wants to talk about sex, lol, and we have no time for you. Bullies in a school yard would get the crap kicked out of them, but online bullies will be bullies and need to be ignored.
You have no credibility or objectivity when you're in a rage in my books as you are a hot head who desperately needs to take anger management courses in order to communicate in an effective, respectful manner.
Good to hear you're going for a bike ride now, I'll just get in my truck and hopefully we'll meet up at an intersection.
Now back to SecretRendezvous,
Cycleguy, did you not know that pussy is supreme, they rule and control the roads and what they say goes. Did you see those ladies on the Rendezvous site???? You will get ahead when they say so, it's not your call. lol, I learned that a long time ago.
Your aggressive posting rampage has no one interested in debating with you, you're just an online bully, evening picking on a cute woman who just wants to talk about sex, lol, and we have no time for you. Bullies in a school yard would get the crap kicked out of them, but online bullies will be bullies and need to be ignored.
You have no credibility or objectivity when you're in a rage in my books as you are a hot head who desperately needs to take anger management courses in order to communicate in an effective, respectful manner.
Good to hear you're going for a bike ride now, I'll just get in my truck and hopefully we'll meet up at an intersection.
Now back to SecretRendezvous,
Cycleguy, did you not know that pussy is supreme, they rule and control the roads and what they say goes. Did you see those ladies on the Rendezvous site???? You will get ahead when they say so, it's not your call. lol, I learned that a long time ago.
Mia.Colpa said:Staggerspool, take a deep breath, sit back, relax, and take your meds.
Your aggressive posting rampage has no one interested in debating with you, you're just an online bully, evening picking on a cute woman who just wants to talk about sex, lol, and we have no time for you. Bullies in a school yard would get the crap kicked out of them, but online bullies will be bullies and need to be ignored.
You have no credibility or objectivity when you're in a rage in my books as you are a hot head who desperately needs to take anger management courses in order to communicate in an effective, respectful manner.
Good to hear you're going for a bike ride now, I'll just get in my truck and hopefully we'll meet up at an intersection.
Now there's a threat I can respond to!
I note you came back for more, without dealing with any serious argument. I like that too. Seems to me I have accomplished the task of separating the men from the boys. I can only hope you ignore me! You haven't got the guts!!!!
If the cute girl just wants to talk about sex, why was she on this thread? SHe just thinks she's right, can't support her position, and started calling me names. Boring.
Yes, I'm being a little aggressive here, but I'm sure folks can handle it. And as for training, I've spent my time debating at the post-grad level, and my posts are all coherent arguements. Some can't handle that and get to the name calling.
You and your big truck... gonna get you into jail yet! You are going to have to murder a lot of cyclists to get to me.
Neither study talked about in this thread conclusively finds that drivers are responsible for most of the accidents involving driver/rider. The studies talked about in this thread don't even do a good job of suggesting it, imo.staggerspool said:
In my view, based on these two studies, you cannot come to any conclusion about who is more responsible for accidents involving driver/rider.
Anyways, I'm done here. I don't think you've changed very many minds here, staggerspool. Nor do I think that you've done a good job of chastising drivers. You have done a very good job of making some veiled threats, though, and of making yourself look like an on-line bully (the worst kind of bully, imo).
P
OK, I'll come clean. I didn't start this to create a debate. I did it to put a fact out there, and see how many folks I could get to demonstrate that they don't understand how an argument works, or what constitutes sound reasoning. There were a couple of interesting replies, and a lot of pure bs. People actually believe their opinion (based on their biased experiences) trumps academic study of the matter in question. I don't need to change any minds. I'd hoped something interesting might come up, maybe some growth might be evident through the process, but alas... no one who showed up has the chops to play. The clever ones know what the truth is.Pencap said:
There isn't really a debate to be had here. The truth is out. Better minds than yours have already done the assessments of the issues in question, your participation is noted and appreciated.
Oh, and this charmer - on-line bullies are the worst kind... Yes, hurt feelings are more important than actual physical abuse. PRICELESS!! Regarding 'veiled threats'. Well, I have been completely explicit in noting that I make no threat, and was simply pointing out a possibly hazzardous approach to posting by those who can easily be identified. You should have been able to understand that, and I think you did, but acknowleging that would have deprived you of a verbal weapon to use against me. Classy. I'm not intimidated.
People who call 'bully' online when the real problem is their inability to present coherent argument... It just looks lame.
So, thanks for playing! See you next round! Actually, I think I'll move up a league or two. Though, of course, if anyone else has anything to say...
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She can't turn right in front of me if i am going straight unless it is safe to do so. Technically I am entitled to a full lane... It is like making a right turn from the left lane of a 2 lane street, while there is traffic too close to them, in effect cutting the right lane drivers off.Moraff said:
Doh!Moraff said:
(at myself!)
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Trying to understand. If someone needs to turn right ahead of me, they signal, I brake if needed, they turn, and I proceed once they are done.Cycleguy007 said:She can't turn right in front of me if i am going straight unless it is safe to do so. Technically I am entitled to a full lane... It is like making a right turn from the left lane of a 2 lane street.
Doh!
If they are a lane over, they move to my lane first. They signal, I let them in to a gap even if it means I need to brake, they signal to turn, etc.
If there is a cyclist to my right rear in my lane, I would expect them to yield to me if I was ahead of them turning right. Even if they had to brake a bit to make this work. I am in the rightmost lane, turning right. I have the right of way, as far as I know.
So if a motorist is in the right vehicle lane signalling to make a right turn and there is a bicyclist behind the car, the motorist has to make sure it is safe to do so. Does the cyclist have no responsibility to look ahead and notice that a motorist is signalling a right turn and he/she should slow down to let the car make the right turn? Or does the bicyclist keep going straight forward at normal speed, hopefully not speeding up, and assume the motorist will let the cyclist through? Interesting scenario, especially if there's also other vehicles behind and are forced to stop. I wonder how many motorists know this?Cycleguy007 said:
It's a more complex situation than surmised.
As many espouse, and is most common, a cyclist is riding near the curb.
The car moving faster goes by the cyclist, both are sharing the lane.
The car, not entirely past the cyclist, or just past and not far ahead, makes sudden right turn into driveway.
This situation is extremely common. I used to cycle a lot. This situation occurred several times every day.
Technically, the car driver is in the wrong according to the HTA. Reason is the HTA spells out a complete lane change while passing slower moving vehicles, and of course not entering driveway across multiple lanes.
For me, after too many close calls like this, I solved the situation. Bicycle in the middle of the lane, forces more of a lane change by the driver. Also, if idiot driver still makes quick right turn my bicycle isn't pinned against the curb, there's some lane available to escape, maybe.
As many espouse, and is most common, a cyclist is riding near the curb.
The car moving faster goes by the cyclist, both are sharing the lane.
The car, not entirely past the cyclist, or just past and not far ahead, makes sudden right turn into driveway.
This situation is extremely common. I used to cycle a lot. This situation occurred several times every day.
Technically, the car driver is in the wrong according to the HTA. Reason is the HTA spells out a complete lane change while passing slower moving vehicles, and of course not entering driveway across multiple lanes.
For me, after too many close calls like this, I solved the situation. Bicycle in the middle of the lane, forces more of a lane change by the driver. Also, if idiot driver still makes quick right turn my bicycle isn't pinned against the curb, there's some lane available to escape, maybe.
There's nothing in the HTA that says a cyclist can't ride on the sidewalk. That is merely a Toronto bylaw, and has the mere status of a bylaw. It has nothing to do with the rules of the road.tboy said:
Not if he had a green light, which it sounds like he did..
Crosswalk, or marked crossing area on an intersection? Two very different things. The latter isn't illegal.
My understanding is that, yes, per-capita, cars cause more of the car/bike accidents than bikes do. The article quoted says 90% but the ones I've read elsewhere (e.g., recently in the star) are more along the lines of cars cause twice as many of the car/bike accidents than cyclists--that would be more like 60-70% caused by cars vs. 30-40% caused by bikes.
If he's in front of you it isn't your lane, it's his lane, and you are only entitled to pass him when it is safe to do so. Plainly it wasn't safe to do so.
In the future try not to drive so dangerously, you should not have been passing the cyclist that close. Your reckless driving put his life in danger.
I realize you probably think that is ridiculous but that's because you need to rethink your understanding of whose lane that actually as at that moment in time, and how much space you really are required to give cyclists when you pass them.
If you can't safely move into the lane to the left of you, you shouldn't be passing the cyclist as it leaves you with no option but to hammer on the brakes as you had to, which is dangerous.
Yes that means you have to consider the cars in the next lane over, whether oncoming or in your direction, before attempting to pass a cyclist. Yes that's the law.
Yes, clearly you attempted an illegal pass without enough room for clearance otherwise you could have simply pulled further left to pass him. If it wasn't safe to pull left, then it wasn't safe to pass the cyclist. Period.
It depends on how close, of course. I found this from the MTO. I think it is invoking the principle that you do not overtake on the right.antaeus said:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/cycling-guide/index.shtml
Right-turning traffic
Motorists don't always check for bicycles when making right-hand turns, so cyclists need to take extra caution. It's important to leave space around you for a safety cushion (one meter between you and the curb and you and the vehicle).
When a motorist is making a right-hand turn, cyclists can either stay behind the vehicle or pass the right-turning vehicle on the left by shoulder checking, signalling, should checking again and then passing on the left. Never pass a right-turning vehicle on the right.
