Do you support the ban of logos referring to natives in sports clubs?
- Thread starter Zaibetter
- Start date
I am going to assume you didnt see that i wrote depends..... it means i allowed for the possibilty that osu owns the buckeye trademark. turns out they do. regardless it doesnt change my point that cleveland has optio s for mascots other than a cartoon indian of no know tribe.
there are native groups who have been invilved as well. it doesnt have to be a 100% native initiative to validate a claim.
aaaaaand this is where i stop speaking to you
the white kid had more access to education, was less likely to be removed from his or her home, had a better income and enjoyed white priveledge...... but aside from that suuuuuure their experience is the same as a native... sarcasm.
have you ever coached before? ever wonder why the same coaching methods from the same coach doesnt get the same results every time? it is because humans are far more complex than you making it out to be.
i am not sure if you are just ignorant of native challenges or just dismissive but either way you are just flat wrong.
the idea that on this day all races should be at the same point is silly considering the various races started with different rights, wealth, education and values
many first world initiatives to fix third world problems fail because the are applying first world thinking to a third world problem all the while ignoring the culture they are trying to help.
so some would consider land, tax breaks and other benefits to be great but obviously it or the structure around it is not working. to continue providing those same initiatives and expecting a different result is foolish.
If increased suicde rates is not a flag that somethings is deeply fucked up then i dont know what is.
Like I said before categorically dismissing other peoples' problems is not constructive.
so some would consider land, tax breaks and other benefits to be great but obviously it or the structure around it is not working. to continue providing those same initiatives and expecting a different result is foolish.
If increased suicde rates is not a flag that somethings is deeply fucked up then i dont know what is.
Like I said before categorically dismissing other peoples' problems is not constructive.
You stopped reading long ago
We were never talking about the white immigrants from England
We were discussing how ALL minorities had it rough (I had thrown out black, asian, italian, irish & portugese)
Yet nearly every other group somehow was able to overcome hardships
Really it is those who refuse to assimilate who fail (whether indians on reserves or blacks who live in extreme poverty areas)
Oh and since we were discussing last 100 years + prejudice and all how about those India Indians?
They seem to have done quite well despite what was obvious second class citizenship back in the day
Not even sure what this is supposed to prove but... um hate to break it to you non-whites do far better in most sports
Basketball, soccer, football you name it
Only place your white privilege comes into play is stuff like polo
Or are you an apoligist who thinks a non-white is less able to read, write, and add?
Absolutely not! Keep the logos, keep the names. Why should a a small minority be listened to, when a clear majority is against something.
In the case of the Cleveland Indians though, they should update their logo to one that is not a caricature, but a more majestic interpretation of the North American Indian.
In the case of the Cleveland Indians though, they should update their logo to one that is not a caricature, but a more majestic interpretation of the North American Indian.
However quite obviously Cleveland is in Ohio as is the Ohio State University that would be an important factor even beyond the legally determining issue that Ohio State owns a copyright.
okay couple points
assimilation what does that mean to you?
my kitchen was done by asians that i couldn't speak with because i dont speak chinese
my floor was done by a russian that again i couldn't communicate with
i have a nunber of italian friends with nonas who don't speak english
for me learning some basic english is a criteria for assimilation
so i question exactly to what degree are different groups assimilating? i feel that asians if they want to remain isolated can easily do that if they want in the gta
with regards to groups like italians they have tv shows in their language and cultural festivals. that to me sounds like they are still keeping parts of their heritage.
to me this is a fundamental difference between us melting pot vs canadian mosaic.
as for my coaching analogy....... my point is this...... given the same opportunities differe t people will have different levels of success. so your expectatio that natives should be at a certain point is not fair.
but it is more complicated than that...... imagine all races are running a race but each group is starting from a different place and each group has their own obstacles to pass and each group must also contend with other peoole blocking them or actively pushing them back.
given that scenario is it a surprise that the people starting furthest behind and facing the most obstacles are struggling?
hope you can see the difference between an explanatio and an excuse. i am just trying to explain why things arent as simple as the world you are describing
as for indians they had an iconic leader in gandhi which makes a difference. he said some questionable stuff but the first nations dont really have a lightning rod like that.
would be interesting to know of the people who voted no how many would support a new more heroic logo of a native
wish more people would explore this topic of bootstrappi g
http://ideas.time.com/2012/09/07/the-myth-of-bootstrapping/
as fo blacks there are a lot of improveme ts going on there are more blacks graduating high school today, more in college and university and more graduating. this should translate to elevation in wealth.
these things take time. how many generations did the irish or italians need? i would say it has only been in the last 50 years where doors began opening for blacks
people want to think of blacks in a certain way but i think it would surprise people to find out how many blacks go to church 3 or more times a month.
i am by no means saying church going makes you a good person but i am saying that many blacks are at least associated with a positive group
http://ideas.time.com/2012/09/07/the-myth-of-bootstrapping/
as fo blacks there are a lot of improveme ts going on there are more blacks graduating high school today, more in college and university and more graduating. this should translate to elevation in wealth.
these things take time. how many generations did the irish or italians need? i would say it has only been in the last 50 years where doors began opening for blacks
people want to think of blacks in a certain way but i think it would surprise people to find out how many blacks go to church 3 or more times a month.
i am by no means saying church going makes you a good person but i am saying that many blacks are at least associated with a positive group
We listen, because if we don't no one knows what the majority opinion is. Nor can anyone know if the minority idea makes more sense, if they don't listen. It's called free speech, and without it, democracy hasn't a hope of deciding anything intelligently. But if intelligence isn't what you're after, you don't have to listen to anybody.
I listened to your better images of North American Indians idea, and I nominate the Boston Red Sikhs: Google it. Or Cleveland's First Nation might perhaps be saleable as a tribute to those "majestic' people you mention, in a way Indians clearly hasn't made it. Why shouldn't we listen to the people directly involved, about how they want their name used and respected?
That is a great point about free speech and how you dont need to be the majority to be right
