DART uses Russian transport planes

[slowpoke]

This is embarrassing. The DART have left for Sri Lanka but had no transport of their own so they had to hire Russian transport planes to take them there. WTF???

Can't we afford a couple of those monster transport planes so we don't have to fly standby every time there's trouble across the pond? You'd think transport would be the first priority for any military or peacekeeping force, let alone an emergency response team like our DART. I'm still glad we're sending the team but they deserve better than this.

"...The local airport in Ampara is too small to accommodate the large Russian aircraft the Canadian government have hired to transport the team, so the planes will land in the capital of Colombo, some 200 kilometres away..."

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1105017699125_27?hub=topstories

 

[red]

please contact your mp and tell them we need to give the troops some equipment

 

[onthebottom]

Is this where I post my "I told you so", oh never mind no one likes those anyway. Who would have thought you'd have to travel to provide aid?

OTB

 

[slowpoke]

Unlike a few on this board, I have absolutely no problem admitting that we are not perfect. Nor am I. So you told me once and now you've told me again. I too have told things. Different handles, different times. We've both been telling each other a lot of things for quite a while now. And we both have quite a few hits and a great many more misses. So it goes....

 

[onthebottom]

Fair enough - call, write, email your MP!

OTB

 

[slowpoke]

I just did. Here's a handy MP locator for those of you who want to do the same. You just enter your postal code and it gives you your MP's e-mail, phone# etc. Everything you need to get your message across.

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/about/people/house/PostalCode.asp?lang=E

 

[blitz]

I could be wrong, I'm sure that I'll be told if I am, but these huge planes are the largest in the world and there are only four of them in existence. Russia made 'em and has all of 'em. They are often contracted for this type of of work.

Why should DART go piece at a time?

 

[slowpoke]

blitz, you're right about the Antonov being the biggest jet on the market but there are more than 4 and any country can buy one. I hunted around and found that the Antonov AN-124 is for sale at a cost of only $98 million. I presume those are USD. Delivery is a mere 2.5 years.

"...The new variants of Ruslan exceed it closest rival, American C-17 manufactured by Boeing, in all major characteristics. Thus, during a takeoff from a 2450m strip the new model of An-124 will be able to lift 85% more cargo by weight than the C-17. At the same time, the new An-124 can carry 80 tonns of cargo 4100km (80%) farther then the C-17. When transporting 80 tonns of cargo to 5000km, the new An-124 will be able to use 35% more available airfields worldwide. Finally, the internal cargo bay volume of An-124 is 1160³ compared to C-17's 580m³. This is all considering that the An-124 will cost between $92-$98 million, which is 1.8-2 times cheaper than the C-17. An-124-200/210 may be delivered to customers in under 2.5 years after the order is placed...."

http://www.aeronautics.ru/an124210a.htm

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/antonov/

If we had even one of those jets, we could've immediately moved DART into the general area of the disaster and had them waiting nearby while the Canadian government dithered about where they'd finally deploy. That would have saved time. I heard retired Gen. Lew MacKenzie on the radio this morning and he couldn't understand why they didn't have such a plan already mapped out for emergencies like this.

We could also have been airlifting supplies into the disaster area around the clock while the final preparations for DART were underway. The Antonov can also drop cargo so we could've parachuted emergency supplies into areas where all the roads were wiped out like in Sumatra. I think they can even parachute bulldozers to rebuild roads. Or how about 375,000 lbs of gravel in one shot. It doesn't take a genius to know right away that tents, medical supplies, fresh water, fuel, generators, basic nutrition etc. would always be needed and it wouldn't have been a big stretch to coordinate our efforts with the other donating countries to make sure we weren't all delivering the same stuff.

I know dick about military technology but we undoubtedly need some kind of heavy transport to get our equipment in place without hitchiking or flying standby. Apparently our gov't debated for too long so DART had to relinquish its early reservation on the Antonov, a flight that would've gotten them there ages ago. Once the politicians had gotten their thumbs out, DART had to rebook and wait even longer to get another flight. This is just f**king pathetic.

I don't expect our military to be a large, all-purpose monstrosity but we definitely need more reach. And we need better military equipment to regain our place as a preferred peacekeeping nation. The UN has a lot of catching up to do and it is high time we did our share of the heavy lifting.

 

[Mcluhan]

Great editorial comments slowpoke! Also please take into consideration that Canada cannot effectively police her coastline. We are sitting ducks to the Polish and other merchant fishing fleets. Russian freezer factory boats have been raiding our fishery for years. NLFD and N.S. fishing fleet is wiped out because of it.

Yes, agreed. Its important to launch and deploy DART overseas on short notice. Also agreed that gov bureaucracy is sadly lacking in its ability to respond and execute.

Canada is a small population of roughly the same as California and we yet manage the largest land mass territorially in the world. We have a role to play in world affairs but we need to also think of looking after our own boarders (adequately). So far, I have seen very little ability in this quarter.

Moving Dart to the Indian basin would not be high on my priority list, as far as budgets and advance response planning goes, yet the same capacity is likely required to move DART to Vancouver in 24 hours. Canada needs to prioritise in terms of managing its boarders where we are sadly, sadly lacking.

 

[strange1]

What sense does it make to spend 98 million plus maintenance to have a plane sit on a runway for the vast majority of the year when there are planes like the ones that were hired. If Canada was planning to deploy dart around the world on a regular basis but, unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time EVER that dart was deployed outside of Canada. I'm sure the money to buy the plane could be spent on much more worthwile things.

 

[Mcluhan]

What sense does it make to spend 98 million plus maintenance to have a plane sit on a runway for the vast majority of the year when there are planes like the ones that were hired. If Canada was planning to deploy dart around the world on a regular basis but, unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time EVER that dart was deployed outside of Canada. I'm sure the money to buy the plane could be spent on much more worthwile things.

Exactly, contract it out.

BTW, who is feeding that space station these days? lol

 

[slowpoke]

What sense does it make to spend 98 million plus maintenance to have a plane sit on a runway for the vast majority of the year when there are planes like the ones that were hired. If Canada was planning to deploy dart around the world on a regular basis but, unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time EVER that dart was deployed outside of Canada. I'm sure the money to buy the plane could be spent on much more worthwile things.

It all depends on how much importance you place on having a military that can respond immediately in a variety of roles, like peackeeping or disaster recovery. I like the Antonov but my argument is about our need for better military and humanitarian transport capability than we have right now. We wasted precious days with our deployment of DART but, luckily, the delay didn't seem to cost any Canadian lives. So it will pass unnoticed and soon be forgotten.

But it could just as easily have been another Rwanda with tens or even hundreds of thousands dying every day and we'd have been just as flat footed and incapable. Just think about all those people. I see this as the military equivalent of running a red light and getting away with it. It is not good enough so I can only hope that our legislators / bean counters will see it as a wake-up call.

So, if you can buy or rent equivalent military transport that will be available 24/7, on a moment's notice, for peacekeeping, disaster recovery and emergency airlift operations, be my guest. If you can do it for less than $98 million well....ummm.....sir, if I could just get your signature here...and here....and your initials here ...

LOL

 

[slowpoke]

Yes, agreed. Its important to launch and deploy DART overseas on short notice. Also agreed that gov bureaucracy is sadly lacking in its ability to respond and execute.

Canada is a small population of roughly the same as California and we yet manage the largest land mass territorially in the world. We have a role to play in world affairs but we need to also think of looking after our own boarders (adequately). So far, I have seen very little ability in this quarter.

I couldn't agree more about Canada being an oversized and underpopulated basket case. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to service 32 million people if they were all contained in an area the size of the British Isles, for example. No icebreakers...Only a few air ambulances...Hospitals & schools all neatly distributed...No frozen Arctic wasteland...Low HVAC costs...One tenth the travel time from end to end etc., etc.

 

[onthebottom]

Look at Australia, they have a much smaller population, a very large land mass and yet they seem to manage a military that can make it to Asia withou a rental. I think the Aussies are the only other countries military involved todate - could be wrong on this.

Aim higher!

OTB

 

[n_v]

...unless I'm mistaken, this is the first time EVER that dart was deployed outside of Canada. I'm sure the money to buy the plane could be spent on much more worthwile things.

You are mistaken. DART was deployed 5 yrs ago for the terrible earthquake that hit Iran. The plane wouldn't just be sitting waiting for DART. There are many more uses for it than just DART. It's a transport plane for Christ's sake.

 

[slowpoke]

Look at Australia, they have a much smaller population, a very large land mass and yet they seem to manage a military that can make it to Asia withou a rental. I think the Aussies are the only other countries military involved todate - could be wrong on this.

Aim higher!

OTB

I could be wrong too but our Arctic alone looks about the size of Australia if you include all those waterways between the islands. Australia doesn't have the severe winters either.
http://www.innsnorth.com/html/map_location.htm

I still think we could use some of Martin's $10B surplus and buy our own military transport. Sure it'll sit around most of the time but you need it to train your military personnel and you need it around when it really matters. Right now Canadians are focussed on this disaster so they're more aware of the need for transport than ever before. So, politically, now would be a good time to announce that they're ordering one.

 

[Funsearcher]

Somewhere in the political/bureaucratic system the acronym DART got mixed up and now it really means:

Delayed Action Response Time !!!!!

 

[Cinema Face]

Somewhere in the political/bureaucratic system the acronym DART got mixed up and now it really means:

Delayed Action Response Time !!!!!

That's funny! I love it.

It's just another example of the Liberals evicerating our military. We are now incapable of doing anything.

We were the last to arrive and we can't even get there on our own.

On second thought, that's not funny, that's pathetic.

 

[Argocock]

Don't blame Canada for this one, its a good move

umm...lets not blow this out of proportion and start bashing the Canadian military on this one. God knows Canada deserves there lumps for underspending on the military, but not on this particular case...I was part owner in a charter company a few years ago so I am pretty knowledgeable on the Antonov planes in particular.

The fact is the Antonov airplanes, If I remember correctly the Antonov 124 WERE( I don't know if they still are as I have been out of this business over 5 years now)...but they were the only airplanes IN THE WORLD capable of moving extremely large loads, you name it, tanks, bulldozers, big generators, ...things that just will not fit in a conventional aircraft. This was an airplane the Russians invested alot of money in when they were still commies, and whoever the Russian mafia guy was that took over the business when Russia went capitalist is making a fortune with these planes. They are used ALL OVER THE WORLD, and especially by the UNITED STATES.

I have never seen them move any military cargo, but they move things that are too heavy to transport by road and by ocean. It is literally the only means of transportation that is capable of moving extremely large loads, I remember on one job we hired the Antonov to move train locomotives....you show me another airplane that can move a fuckin TRAIN. It just can't be done.

If you ask me, this is one thing Canada actually did right. That Dart equipment is too big to carry by regular airplanes, it is too heavy to be transported even by ROAD or by RAIL in CANADA, never mind Sri Lanka whose roads and highways are completely fucked up right now.

Its easy to bash Canada on this one, but do a bit of research on the Antonov and you will find that this criticism is unfounded. Someone in the government actually did their job this time. Even the Americans don't have a plane to match the 124 antonov.

 

[anon1]

I read that the two Antonov's carried the load that would have taken 30 flights of the Canadian military's Hercules transport.
Somebody in Ottawa did something right this time.