Cyclists need to obey the law

[fuji]

A bicycle is a vehicle under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA). This means that, as a bicyclist, you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users.

Sorry but you are factually wrong here. A bicycle is a "vehicle" yes, but it is not a "motor vehicle", it is a "bicycle" under the HTA, and as a result the rules that apply to bicycles are different than the rules that apply to motor vehicles.

In most cases the HTA specifies the same rule for bicycles and for motor vehicles, but not in all cases. For example the rule about slow moving vehicles specifically does not apply to what the HTA calls "bicycles".

So no, not all rules that apply to vehicles apply to bicycles. Only those that the HTA says apply to bicycles apply to bicycles.

 

[Questor]

Have you ever driven over the speed limit tboy?

If I see you driving over the speed limit, is it okay for me to shoot your tires out as an act of pre-emptive self defence?

LOL Come on now...he's only pretecting his dear old mother and his one year old niece. Besides, he would never drive over the speed limit. That is against the law!

 

[shakenbake]

It's about time the cops crack down on this. I don't have anything against protecting the environment, exercise or pure enjoyment but I can't begin to tell you how many times I have been almost run over by cyclists.

http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_23872.aspx

As both a past cyclist, a driver and occasional pedestrian, I agree. A bicycle is considered a vehicle under the Highway Traffic Act. Therefore, cyclists MUST obey the law. Plain and simple.

 

[shakenbake]

Did you miss this part???

A bicycle is a vehicle under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act (HTA). This means that, as a bicyclist, you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users.

The laws above are not the only laws a bicyclist has to abide by.......notice the word ALL traffic laws above????

Well, except in Fuji land where he is fine with following some laws, not others and that changes depending on whether it is to his benefit or not.....

Agreed!

 

[tboy]

Have you ever driven over the speed limit tboy?

If I see you driving over the speed limit, is it okay for me to shoot your tires out as an act of pre-emptive self defence?

No, but if you see my driving my vehicle on a sidewalk or through a playground you can stop me........

LOL Come on now...he's only pretecting his dear old mother and his one year old niece. Besides, he would never drive over the speed limit. That is against the law!

For the record it is PROtecting.... there IS a difference between driving a vehicle safely on a ROAD intended for vehicles and driving a vehicle on a pedestrian sideWALK. For that matter, if you DO see someone driving erratically or speeding excessively you DO have a right to make a citizen's arrest.

A more appropriate comparison would be: if I was driving my vehicle through a playground or an area like the CNE. Ever notice how when official vehicles DO travel in these areas they move at a snails pace and or have someone walking in front?

You people just don't get it do you: if the idiot who nailed my mother hit a child, that child probably would have died......but I guess that's ok, cuz, I mean, serves the kid right for daring to WALK on a ahem sideWALK......

See, the difference is: you CHOOSE to ride a bike, you have CHOICES where you can ride. So if a pedestrian can't be safe from vehicles on the sidewalk, where are they supposed to WALK? on the ROAD?

Sorry but you are factually wrong here. A bicycle is a "vehicle" yes, but it is not a "motor vehicle", it is a "bicycle" under the HTA, and as a result the rules that apply to bicycles are different than the rules that apply to motor vehicles.

In most cases the HTA specifies the same rule for bicycles and for motor vehicles, but not in all cases. For example the rule about slow moving vehicles specifically does not apply to what the HTA calls "bicycles".

So no, not all rules that apply to vehicles apply to bicycles. Only those that the HTA says apply to bicycles apply to bicycles.

What part of ALL traffic laws don't you understand? Oh I know, it is your everchaning definition of what laws to abide by and what laws to break when it suits you best.

Sorry, it is clearly written: you have the same rights and responsibilities to obey all traffic laws as other road users.

LOL I guess since you don't drive on the ROAD the laws don't apply! So by using your logic, if I drove my truck on the sidewalk the rules wouldn't apply to me either?

 

[Jade4u]

If they are too young to listen for sounds ie... the sound of a motor running then they should be with thier parents riding. At an older age around 7 and up I would hope the rule of look, listen and live is installed into thier minds and that they are reminded of this constantly. Bikes are quiet but cars are not. Several times I have heard the sound of cars turning over and look in the direction it is coming from and had my kids stop. Maybe if you see a child like this you can tell them to listen for cars and not just look. Just a short sentence to them as they go by and let them be on thier way. Sometimes I believe parents forget this rule and it could save lives.

I would also think a judge would look at all circumstances and you would not get first or second degree at least.

 

[thompo69]

For that matter, if you DO see someone driving erratically or speeding excessively you DO have a right to make a citizen's arrest.

It would have to be pretty excessive or pretty erratic before you could do that. The powers of citizens arrest are pretty limited with respect to the HTA, and it would pretty much have to be stunt driving or careless driving (or, bizarrely, a bunch of offences related to defacing licence plates and stuff like that). Also, a citizen's arrest could potentially be made for impaired driving under the Criminal Code.

 

[tboy]

If they are too young to listen for sounds ie... the sound of a motor running then they should be with thier parents riding. At an older age around 7 and up I would hope the rule of look, listen and live is installed into thier minds and that they are reminded of this constantly. Bikes are quiet but cars are not. Several times I have heard the sound of cars turning over and look in the direction it is coming from and had my kids stop. Maybe if you see a child like this you can tell them to listen for cars and not just look. Just a short sentence to them as they go by and let them be on thier way. Sometimes I believe parents forget this rule and it could save lives.

I would also think a judge would look at all circumstances and you would not get first or second degree at least.

WOW Jade: look listen live.....mind if I use that LOL Best advice so far in this thread!

For the record I went and "measured" a bike lane near my house, it is one pace or maybe 1 metre wide. I also looked at the bike route along the lakeshore and it is MAYBE 2 metres wide for 2 directions.

Funny as it sounds, as I was waiting for the lights at DVP and Lakeshore, a city works truck turned onto the bike path....guess what? No bikes or bladers for as far as the eye could see but he STILL puttered along at walking speed. WHat's my point? That if you must drive where you are not supposed to you go really realy slow and careful even if there's no one apparently around......

 

[tboy]

It would have to be pretty excessive or pretty erratic before you could do that. The powers of citizens arrest are pretty limited with respect to the HTA, and it would pretty much have to be stunt driving or careless driving (or, bizarrely, a bunch of offences related to defacing licence plates and stuff like that). Also, a citizen's arrest could potentially be made for impaired driving under the Criminal Code.

You're correct but they aren't as limited as you think. I was on my way home from work along the gardiner one night and I saw some idiot accelerating excessively they screeching to a stop every time the traffic moved forward at all. He was also trying to bully his way through traffic so I called 911. I asked them if I could stop him legally and they said yes, but we can send the cops right to me if I stay on the line. So I got close enough to get the licence number, they confirmed the make and model and colour of the vehicle, and I read them off our location as we travelled along the gardiner.

The erratic driver then bullied his way into the long long exit lane to spadina and I told them this. The 911 operator informed me that a cruiser was just arriving at that ramp and was about to go up but stopped at the bottom. So when the guy got off, he was nailed. I was a little perplexed when they didn't need me to meet with the cops but they said they had all my info and my "testimony" and if they needed me, they'd call......

 

[Jade4u]

WOW Jade: look listen live.....mind if I use that LOL Best advice so far in this thread!

Go ahead and use it I stole it a long long time ago when I saw it posted in a bus shelter with a car approaching a rail road track. I figure it can apply to many situations.

 

[markvee]

No, but if you see my driving my vehicle on a sidewalk or through a playground you can stop me........

You have reasoned that you may personally enforce traffic law for cyclists on the sidewalk based on your mother's experience being injured by a cyclist on the sidewalk.

I have seen people, pedestrian and cyclist, who were killed by cars on the road (legally crossing an intersection for the pedestrian) while the car driver was breaking a traffic law.

If your reasoning for personally a enforcing traffic rule is personal (or near-personal experience in the case of your mother) experience with injury due to violation of the rule, why should the rest of us be limited to your experience. If I have witnessed injury or death from a different traffic law violation why should I not be able to enforce that law?

And why should I be limited to a citizen's arrest when you allow yourself to assault the cyclist and damage his property?

 

[tboy]

....

And why should I be limited to a citizen's arrest when you allow yourself to assault the cyclist and damage his property?

If you don't see the difference between shooting at a moving vehicle, and manually stopping someone from potentially injuring someone, then you need to give your head a shake.

My actions will only stop and only have the potential to injure the offending party, no one else.

Now, using your experience, if you see someone who is about to injure or run over a pedestrian crossing at a crosswalk, that is entirely different than simply going over the speedlimit. Just by in and of itself speeding does not create an immediate peril to anyone. Now if someone was speeding towards a crosswalk with people crossing, or towards a school bus stopped with it's flashers going, that is totally different.

The main difference is if a bicyle rider is close enough to me to be able to bodily knock them off their bike, then the danger to me is immediate.

See the difference? Of course you don't.

But I will also say this: I have been stopped at a crosswalk with the lights going and am awaiting the pedestrians to cross, , and seen a vehicle in my rearview mirror approaching the crosswalk and obviously NOT going to stop and I have moved my vehicle into it's lane to get them to stop. Fortunately or unfortunately they swerved around me but missed the people crossing in front of me. If I hadn't done that the pedestrians would have been flattened. (Mom and two kids about 8).

I also stop pedestrians from doing stupid things. I was walking across gerrard the other day at an intersection, I had the green, and just as I started out, a cop came barrelling around a vehicle with it's lights and siren going. As I was halfway across an idiot nanny (I guess) pushing a stroller was JUST starting across towards me. I put my arms out to stop her and said WAIT, she looked at me and I pointed to the cop car speeding towards the intersection, she looked at the speeding cop car and she WENT TO MOVE AROUND ME the fucking idiot. So I stepped again to block her as the cops slammed on their brakes because they thought she was going to dart in front of them.

So if you think I'm the big asshole for stopping people in vehicles from injuring someone then fine, I'll be the asshole but don't you DARE come near me on the sidewalk on a bike. I am totally fine being the asshole that so far has saved 2 adults and 3 kids from being killed or injured.

Luv is a happy solution to the problem: she gets off the sidewalk when there are pedestrians present. Now it isn't perfect because people can still be coming out of store fronts etc but it is better than simply using people and kids and racing pylons.....

 

[markvee]

The main difference is if a bicyle rider is close enough to me to be able to bodily knock them off their bike, then the danger to me is immediate.

Was the danger to you immediate or were you angry that someone told your friends to fuck off? I'm not defending use of such language, but be honest with us tboy.

 

[markvee]

A person on a bike is in a very vulnerable position, and I don't advocate people running their mouth from this position.

My personal rule is: If I tell people to fuck off then I face the consequences.

But I still wouldn't push someone else for saying fuck off.

 

[tboy]

Was the danger to you immediate or were you angry that someone told your friends to fuck off? I'm not defending use of such language, but be honest with us tboy.

A person on a bike is in a very vulnerable position, and I don't advocate people running their mouth from this position.

My personal rule is: If I tell people to fuck off then I face the consequences.

But I still wouldn't push someone else for saying fuck off.

Nope, he narrowly missed the first two guys ahead of us which is why they told him to slow down and since we middle two were able to body check him he was pretty much heading right for us (cuz his head was turned while he yelled at the first two)........We certainly didn't need to move much in order to knock him off, we basically just leaned into him and off he went......

And him telling the other guys to fuck off only just exacerbated the situation......

It was pretty funny actually, kind of like those body hits you see in hockey when one player doesn't see the body check coming.....bike went one way and he went the other lol....The only thing that would have made it better is if we were able to nail him in mid curse.... Like "Fuck OFoh shitttttttttttttt"

LOL I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not going to knock a 8 yr old little girl off her hello kitty pink bike......but if you're going too fast and getting too close to the people? I hope you have your airmiles card handy cuz you're taking flight!

 

[tboy]

As for people on bikes being vulnerable. You're right, they are. But pedestrians are MORE vulnerable and kids are even more vulnerable than adults.

Sure, they are vulnerable to injury on the road, but on the sidewalk? They are potentially lethal weapons.........that's the thing that many don't realize. You get a 140 lbs body, and a 20 lb piece of steel, moving at 10 or 15 kph, and you've got a nice little missle happening. Plus all the sharp points and exposed nuts etc ? It's pretty fricken dangerous.......

At least cars have designs built in to minimize the damage if they hit someone. I mean Jaguar even have cushion hoods now.....

 

[markvee]

What is the potential for injury in pushing someone off of a bicycle?

I've read only one account of a cyclist killing a pedestrian.

I've seen three pedestrians and two cyclists who were killed by motorists in addition to the numerous cases I've read about.

In my experience, the infractions (drunk driving, running a red light, cutting off, murder) have all been committed by the motorists.

 

[Questor]

ROFL Well, I'm just going to kneel by my bed tonight and give a prayer of thanks that we have tboy patrolling the streets and keeping things safe for us all. What would we ever do without him....all those lethal missiles careening down the sidewalk without any regard for the safety of our poor defenceless nieces and mothers. Its a wonder I can walk to the mall anymore to get my groceries. Its a jungle out there. Three cheers for our little vigilante, tboy.

 

[DshRipRock]

TBoy likes to be judge and jury. I can assure Tboy if he knocks someone off their bike for riding on the sidewalk he would be charged if the police were called.

Sorry Tboy that's the way the law works. I doubt you called 911 for a traffic issue. That line is for real emergencies. Not your "imaginary" emergencies.
They would have told you that and hung up.

Unfortunatly for you Tboy your internet bully act is getting thin. Now you seem to be just making up BS stories to prove your sad point.

Go have a nap.

 

[Garrett]

Plus all the sharp points and exposed nuts etc ? It's pretty fricken dangerous.......

At least cars have designs built in to minimize the damage if they hit someone. I mean Jaguar even have cushion hoods now.....

Exposed nuts? Cars being one big cozy cushion when they hit you?

Your arguments are getting more and more ridiculous.