CupidsEscorts Tweets a Client's Information

[essguy_]

Laws changed. It is no longer outcalls are safe and incalls are not.

Cupids and any other agency can be charged for selling the sexual services of a third party. One of the lawyers here can give you the exact terms.

Also, the purchase of sexual services is now illegal. The selling of sexual services is not.

You may not understand why a girl would not go to the police, but you don't have to. There are plenty of reasons why a woman would not. It was already stated by Cupids, via twitter, they girl does not want to be re-victimized by police. Which is a very very real possibility.

We also don't know this girl's private personal life and how LE involved would affect that. Many of these girls work for an agency to keep this shit out of their personal lives.

This is why women in this industry are so preyed upon. Because even now, when we are not criminals for selling sex, we still can't really go to the police for many reasons. And since many, as you see here, are of the opinion that if you didn't go to the police then it didn't happen, who wants to deal with that? Really? On top of being raped, we are going to say it never happened because you didn't go get treated like shit by the police as well.


Sadly, while I understand the frustration of Jillian and many other women who suffer this way on a regular basis, the outing of his name has done nothing but set us and our attempts at remaining safe in this industry, back a few in the struggle. This thread shows it. Everyone is so much more concerned about the clients rights then the girl who was allegedly raped.

No one is going to bother remembering the girl that was raped. All they are going to remember is the very real fact that clients can and do get outed.

Very sad.

But this avoids the obvious question of mistakenly (or deliberately) outing a guy who did nothing wrong. It may sound harsh, but unless an owner and SP is willing to go the LE route, then incidents like this should be considered just one of the dark risks of the business and any info should be shared only privately, if at all. Cupid’s outing of this guy has accomplished absolutely nothing positive. As I’ve stated, this guy is still free to book anywhere he wants under a fake name. Now many people (including me) are questioning the trend of the industry (where formerly private information has the potential to be delivered with one keystroke to an unlimited audience). She has actually hurt her own business and has not made it any better for anybody involved, provider or client. This guy’s still on the street. And now the spectre of being “outed” on social media is one more reason for fake names and ID’s. so how has this helped?

 

[Jasmine Raine]

But this avoids the obvious question of mistakenly (or deliberately) outing a guy who did nothing wrong. It may sound harsh, but unless an owner and SP is willing to go the LE route, then incidents like this should be considered just one of the dark risks of the business and any info should be shared only privately, if at all. Cupid’s outing of this guy has accomplished absolutely nothing positive. As I’ve stated, this guy is still free to book anywhere he wants under a fake name. Now many people (including me) are questioning the trend of the industry (where formerly private information has the potential to be delivered with one keystroke to an unlimited audience). She has actually hurt her own business and has not made it any better for anybody involved, provider or client. This guy’s still on the street. And now the spectre of being “outed” on social media is one more reason for fake names and ID’s. so how has this helped?

I get it.

Your concern is not being false accused. My concern is not being raped. Both happen. What happens more though? What do you think happens more? Which do you think should take center stage? Which do you think is the most important? Because that is what this comes down too.

The general consensus is: The rapist's right to privacy trumps her right to speak out publically about her victimization. Very fucking sad if you ask me.

My last statement I thought was pretty clear though. I agree this has done nothing positive. As I said:

No one is going to bother remembering the girl that was raped. All they are going to remember is the very real fact that clients can and do get outed.

 

[essguy_]

Do I fear for my own information being revealed? No. I don't rape women. I don't stealth women. I don't assault women. I DO respect women. I DO work hard to make them feel comfortable and make our encounters fun. Is there a 0.001% risk that a troubled provider would make a false accusation against me, despite having nothing to gain from such an accusation? Sure. But I'm comfortable with that. It's probably the smallest of the risks we face in this pursuit.

The vast majority of clients do not rape or stealth women. And newsflash: The risks you state have just increased by multiples - and your attitude will increase that multiple.

How about this scenario, already discussed: The condom slips off by pure accident (has happened to me in real life and another person as described in this or the other thread). But this time it’s with a provider and the provider freaks out and accuses you of “stealthing” (and full disclosure, until recently, I had no idea this was a thing). She tells the owner and the owner outs you. Do you think you’re “I’m special, I don’t rape women” self image will save your reputation?

 

[mandrill]

But this avoids the obvious question of mistakenly (or deliberately) outing a guy who did nothing wrong. It may sound harsh, but unless an owner and SP is willing to go the LE route, then incidents like this should be considered just one of the dark risks of the business and any info should be shared only privately, if at all. Cupid’s outing of this guy has accomplished absolutely nothing positive. As I’ve stated, this guy is still free to book anywhere he wants under a fake name. Now many people (including me) are questioning the trend of the industry (where formerly private information has the potential to be delivered with one keystroke to an unlimited audience). She has actually hurt her own business and has not made it any better for anybody involved, provider or client. This guy’s still on the street. And now the spectre of being “outed” on social media is one more reason for fake names and ID’s. so how has this helped?

The guy in question has a track record of being an asshole and trying to get bbfs. So he's likely guilty of what the girl alleged in this case. And it's pretty serious. And it's understandable that the girl doesn't want to go to the police.

OTOH, no one would wish to see guys routinely outed for no showing an appointment without an excuse for instance. Some independents are not that smart or responsible and might actually do this if they were angry.

 

[essguy_]

I get it.

Your concern is not being false accused. My concern is not being raped. Both happen. What happens more though? What do you think happens more? Which do you think should take center stage? Which do you think is the most important? Because that is what this comes down too.

The general consensus is: The rapist's right to privacy trumps her right to speak out publically about her victimization. Very fucking sad if you ask me.

My last statement I thought was pretty clear though. I agree this has done nothing positive. As I said:

No one is going to bother remembering the girl that was raped. All they are going to remember is the very real fact that clients can and do get outed.

With due respect, I don’t think you understand my point. You’re talking about dealing with a crime via social media as if that’s the only route. What I’m saying is that the social media route accomplishes NOTHING. So again, apologies if this is harsh, but unless you are willing to report a crime - then incidents like this are an unfortunate risk of the business, and changing the model (I.e. using client info as a weapon) will likely result in more fake ID’s and MORE risk for the provider.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

With due respect, I don’t think you understand my point. You’re talking about dealing with a crime via social media as if that’s the only route. What I’m saying is that the social media route accomplishes NOTHING. So again, apologies if this is harsh, but unless you are willing to report a crime - then incidents like this are an unfortunate risk of the business, and changing the model (I.e. using client info as a weapon) will likely result in more fake ID’s and MORE risk for the provider.

No I am not. I know all the other options. I am not saying there is only one. However, you are dismissing the very real things being said about LE involved in matters like and therefore why that is not always a viable option.

You seem to think I am disagreeing you. I am not. I agree that this did more damage than good. Why do you think I am disputing that?

 

[essguy_]

The guy in question has a track record of being an asshole and trying to get bbfs. So he's likely guilty of what the girl alleged in this case. And it's pretty serious. And it's understandable that the girl doesn't want to go to the police.

OTOH, no one would wish to see guys routinely outed for no showing an appointment without an excuse for instance. Some independents are not that smart or responsible and might actually do this if they were angry.

But if he had this reputation, then how on earth was he ever a longtime client? Given his reputation, this last incident should have been the final straw to report him to LE, no?

Sorry, but I have trouble with the notion of a crime that isn’t serious enough to report to police but is deemed (by a jury of one) to be serious enough to break a principle that’s worked for this industry for decades. And again, what did it really accomplish? How is this activity better today, for anybody, then it was before this incident and outing?

 

[SeasonedOne]

The vast majority of clients do not rape or stealth women. And newsflash: The risks you state have just increased by multiples - and your attitude will increase that multiple.

How about this scenario, already discussed: The condom slips off by pure accident (has happened to me in real life and another person as described in this or the other thread). But this time it’s with a provider and the provider freaks out and accuses you of “stealthing” (and full disclosure, until recently, I had no idea this was a thing). She tells the owner and the owner outs you. Do you think you’re “I’m special, I don’t rape women” self image will save your reputation?

I know I'm not unique, and hope that most people reading this thread recognise themselves in my self-description as a non-rapist. The best thing we can do as clients to mitigate our risk is to be a good human during our sessions. I think the scenario you describe is another one that falls in the 0.001% likelihood. I tend to be pretty aware of the state and location of my condom at all times.

I get what everybody is saying - but I'm much more worried about the escorts in these situations than i am about clients, because assholes are much more statistically likely than any of these accident or revenge scenarios. So fine, a bunch of Terbites are going to swear off Cupids for a while. And then they'll be back. Just like they came back after the C-36 panic subsided. Just like they come back after every scare. Me, I'm still recovering from Y2K...

 

[Jasmine Raine]

But if he had this reputation, then how on earth was he ever a longtime client? Given his reputation, this last incident should have been the final straw to report him to LE, no?

Sorry, but I have trouble with the notion of a crime that isn’t serious enough to report to police but is deemed (by a jury of one) to be serious enough to break a principle that’s worked for this industry for decades. And again, what did it really accomplish? How is this activity better today, for anybody, then it was before this incident and outing?

The reason LE is not involved is not because it is NOT serious enough. There are other reasons why she decided not to go the police.

 

[essguy_]

The reason LE is not involved is not because it is NOT serious enough. There are other reasons why she decided not to go the police.

And those reasons are..... ? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the owner did the calculation and concluded that the risks to HER and her business were too great to go to the police. Otherwise, why not try? Sure, the police might have been assholes and brushed this off, but that’s on them. There is a possibility that they’d take this seriously and at least give this a-hole a visit (to his home, in front of his neighbours). So why not try?

 

[apoptygma]

And those reasons are..... ? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the owner did the calculation and concluded that the risks to HER and her business were too great to go to the police. Otherwise, why not try? Sure, the police might have been assholes and brushed this off, but that’s on them. There is a possibility that they’d take this seriously and at least give this a-hole a visit (to his home, in front of his neighbours). So why not try?

Because some people need a reason to justify this unacceptable outing.

 

[mandrill]

And those reasons are..... ? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the owner did the calculation and concluded that the risks to HER and her business were too great to go to the police. Otherwise, why not try? Sure, the police might have been assholes and brushed this off, but that’s on them. There is a possibility that they’d take this seriously and at least give this a-hole a visit (to his home, in front of his neighbours). So why not try?

Most girls are scared of the police and reluctant to deal with them. There doesn't even have to be a logical reason for this. They are just uncomfortable involving the police.

 

[apoptygma]

Most girls are scared of the police and reluctant to deal with them. There doesn't even have to be a logical reason for this. They are just uncomfortable involving the police.

Ya, it's much easier to 'handle' things behind the safety of a keyboard.

 

[essguy_]

Most girls are scared of the police and reluctant to deal with them. There doesn't even have to be a logical reason for this. They are just uncomfortable involving the police.

But you see, that’s the cost and risk of the business. So you either accept it and carry on or quit. If a provider’s (or owner’s) personal situation is such that they are reluctant to report a crime to police then they need to re-think their vocation or suck it up for the minority of times this may occur. Yes, that’s harsh but that’s reality.

Tilting this risk by holding our information like a bargaining chip or ransom note is a very dangerous slope to go down and will only result in more risk because more people will use fake ID’s. In fact, for any psycho out there who is into “stealthing” what they’ve learned from this is that LE will likely not be involved.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

And those reasons are..... ? I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that the owner did the calculation and concluded that the risks to HER and her business were too great to go to the police. Otherwise, why not try? Sure, the police might have been assholes and brushed this off, but that’s on them. There is a possibility that they’d take this seriously and at least give this a-hole a visit (to his home, in front of his neighbours). So why not try?

No, that is not just on them.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have never been victimized in a violation type situation. You have no idea how it feels to have police brush aside your very real concerns, fears, assault, etc. You simply have no idea what that does to you internally. So no, it is not just on them.

And I agree, I would press charges now. If I knew right away I was stealthed. But I say that as a person who has already been a victim of stealthing. In my civilian life.

And you know, I was so stupid. I didn't even know what was happening at the time. I remember being so confused as to why the condoms kept having issues. 3 times I re-applied a condom. 3 fucking times. Yet, they still "broke" or "fell off accidentally". I bought it. I bought the bullshit lie because I thought I was able to trust this person. This person who knew exactly what he was fucking doing at the time. Knew 1000% that I wanted a condom and he didn't and fuck my opinion. Fuck my consent. Fuck my safety. He was going in for the bare ride because that was what HE wanted.

It was not until a couple of years later, still in this relationship with this man, I learned the truth of that night. When he told me the truth in some changed narrative of the story. How he knew from the beginning that we were meant to be together. How he knew this was love ever after and couldn't bare the idea of having something separate us like a condom. WTF? Like what the actual fuck? Because you knew you would love me, you raped me! Are you fucking kidding me?

The years of abuse I would have saved myself at the hands of him. I can't even describe to you that feeling. That I was so stupid as to believe that whole time it was faulty condoms. If I was only smarter.

Now it is a couple years after the fact, how do I go to the police? You tell me, please. We both know I can't. What would it do? Except get me brushed off or worse, accused of falsely accusing him because we are no longer together. Like I am some vengeful bitch. Like I want to bother with that shit. But even if I did, even if they talked to him, there would be no charges because there is no way to prove it. And by that standard, I am not allowed to publicly say on my FB or my Twitter, the name of the man who raped me. And if I do, I will be labelled as not respecting HIS rights. By that standard, some men believe that it didn't happen to me because I don't have him charged? Really? That is what you are telling me?

Ya - that is what you are telling me. Exactly what you are telling me. And yes - I even fucking agree with you regarding outing as much as I hate it. But don't think for one minute I am not frustrated as hell because of it. That I am not revictimized even now, sharing the story again for you. Because I have to respect him while I share it.

This frustration is why Jillian and so many other women have spoken up and said "Fuck you! Enough is enough"

So I get it. I get it all. I get why she did what she did. I get why the girl didn't go to the police. I get why you are fighting for his rights so hard now.

What I don't get is how to change it, because it really sucks being the victim in shit like this, and not being able to do a thing about it.

Time for me to bow out now though I think. Thanks for the debate.

 

[apoptygma]

Jessica, I think you summed up this whole issue quite nicely in that post.

 

[essguy_]

No, that is not just on them.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say you have never been victimized in a violation type situation. You have no idea how it feels to have police brush aside your very real concerns, fears, assault, etc. You simply have no idea what that does to you internally. So no, it is not just on them.

And I agree, I would press charges now. If I knew right away I was stealthed. But I say that as a person who has already been a victim of stealthing. In my civilian life.

And you know, I was so stupid. I didn't even know what was happening at the time. I remember being so confused as to why the condoms kept having issues. 3 times I re-applied a condom. 3 fucking times. Yet, they still "broke" or "fell off accidentally". I bought it. I bought the bullshit lie because I thought I was able to trust this person. This person who knew exactly what he was fucking doing at the time. Knew 1000% that I wanted a condom and he didn't and fuck my opinion. Fuck my consent. Fuck my safety. He was going in for the bare ride because that was what HE wanted.

It was not until a couple of years later, still in this relationship with this man, I learned the truth of that night. When he told me the truth in some changed narrative of the story. How he knew from the beginning that we were meant to be together. How he knew this was love ever after and couldn't bare the idea of having something separate us like a condom. WTF? Like what the actual fuck? Because you knew you would love me, you raped me! Are you fucking kidding me?

The years of abuse I would have saved myself at the hands of him. I can't even describe to you that feeling. That I was so stupid as to believe that whole time it was faulty condoms. If I was only smarter.

Now it is a couple years after the fact, how do I go to the police? You tell me, please. We both know I can't. What would it do? Except get me brushed off or worse, accused of falsely accusing him because we are no longer together. Like I am some vengeful bitch. Like I want to bother with that shit. But even if I did, even if they talked to him, there would be no charges because there is no way to prove it. And by that standard, I am not allowed to publicly say on my FB or my Twitter, the name of the man who raped me. And if I do, I will be labelled as not respecting HIS rights. By that standard, some men believe that it didn't happen to me because I don't have him charged? Really? That is what you are telling me?

Ya - that is what you are telling me. Exactly what you are telling me. And yes - I even fucking agree with you as much as I hate it. But don't think for one minute I am not frustrated as hell because of it. That I am not revictimized even now, sharing the story again for you. Because I have to respect him while I share it.

This frustration is why Jillian and so many other women have spoken up and said "Fuck you! Enough is enough"

So I get it. I get it all. I get why she did what she did. I get why the girl didn't go to the police. I get why you are fighting for his rights so hard now.

What I don't get is how to change it, because it really sucks being the victim in shit like this, and not being able to do a thing about it.

Time for me to bow out now though I think. Thanks for the debate.

I'm sorry about your personal situation, I truly am. But other than the stealthing, it has very little relevance to this. This was a crime that was obvious WHEN IT HAPPENED. I'm not fighting for this guy's rights - I want this guy charged and off the streets. Why would I want an idiot like this giving all clients a bad reputation? (and possibly passing disease). In this case the agency owner took the expedient route. Accomplished nothing. This guy gets off with a few moments of humiliation (now deleted). He's probably already thinking about his next appointment. She's made it worse for you, and made it easier for other providers to find an excuse to move down the slippery slope of privacy.

 

[Brill]

In this case the agency owner took the expedient route. Accomplished nothing. This guy gets off with a few moments of humiliation (now deleted). He's probably already thinking about his next appointment.

Sounds like you're arguing that outing isn't really that big a deal.

The police can pay him a visit and keep tabs on the guy if they really gave a shit, but I doubt they do.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

I'm sorry about your personal situation, I truly am. But other than the stealthing, it has very little relevance to this. This was a crime that was obvious WHEN IT HAPPENED. I'm not fighting for this guy's rights - I want this guy charged and off the streets. Why would I want an idiot like this giving all clients a bad reputation? (and possibly passing disease). In this case the agency owner took the expedient route. Accomplished nothing. This guy gets off with a few moments of humiliation (now deleted). He's probably already thinking about his next appointment. She's made it worse for you, and made it easier for other providers to find an excuse to move down the slippery slope of privacy.

I am very sorry then that I said you were fighting for his rights. That would be considered very insulting considering what you are really trying to do.

It justed seemed that way to me. I appreciate the clarification. And thank you for your support.

 

[essguy_]

Sounds like you're arguing that outing isn't really that big a deal.

The police can pay him a visit and keep tabs on the guy if they really gave a shit, but I doubt they do.

No. I'm saying I don't give a shit about the guy who was outed. In fact, he should be on a LE watchlist. What I'm saying is that "outing" is a very dangerous idea in an industry that runs on discretion. The past few years have seen a real shift in this philosophy and Twitter has made it worse. If something is serious enough to break the principle of privacy then it should be important enough to get LE involved. Otherwise, consider it a cost/risk of business.