Covid-19 most likely came from a lab leak,,,,,,,,,duh

[basketcase]

I think you are trying too hard here to unravel the very basic concept of reasonable doubt.

Most of us have probably seen Twelve Angry Men. You want a jury that doesn't lock into a predetermination. ...

Seems like you're not listening to your own advice.

Speaking for myself (but it also seems pretty consistent with the others you're arguing against) our whole argument is based on the evidence and are open to more evidence showing something different coming about. That is exactly the way science works. As of now, the evidence is stronger for a 'natural' cause.

Meanwhile people like Lo and Harry are simply pissed off that the evidence doesn't currently support their gut feeling.

 

[basketcase]

I think you are trying too hard here to unravel the very basic concept of reasonable doubt.
...

Wrong context. Science isn't the same as a court of law.

 

[basketcase]

Perhaps, but they were the ones routinely ridiculed on these pages in 2020 for suggesting a lab leak....

Don't think anyone ridiculed the idea, just Trump's conclusion at a time when it had far less support than it weak evidence it has now.

 

[basketcase]

...

And in this case they have covered up a shitload.

Wow. What a logically insensible statement. If it's covered up, you wouldn't know whether there was anything to cover up.


But yes, it is likely that China was manipulating information but I suspect that has far much to do with "face" than trying to cover up a leak. For example, covering up how many people died of covid has nothing to do with the source but does make China's public health system look flawed.

 

[Butler1000]

The greatest strength of the market theory is the geographic distribution of the infections. It is possible that a lab worker got infected, travelled across the city without infecting anyone before spreading it at the market but it is pretty clear that the market area was the epicentre. That makes it far more likely that the source of the infection was at the market.

p.s. I don't view anyone here as "the enemy" and instead choose to evaluate each stance people give. But yes, when people put forward asinine opinions in one field, it does make me sceptical of their other views.

It isn't because its the Chinese telling you this.

 

[basketcase]

...

Really though its about trust.
...

So you admit that evidence isn't the important thing for you. Thanks.

 

[basketcase]

It isn't because its the Chinese telling you this.

Do you know the expression about the baby and the bathwater?

Even if the data is flawed, that in no way provides support for your pet theory.

 

[Butler1000]

So you admit that evidence isn't the important thing for you. Thanks.

No, I state the source of the evidence is important.

 

[lomotil]

Not my first choice. Even in a survival situation I'd prefer some kind of grouse or rabbit.

But do you realize how stupid it is when your only evidence is that China has a lab?

Yes China has a lab……and this lab was in Wuhan, a lab called the Wuhan Virological Institute which was engaged against the advice and repeated cautions of the international science community, in research where human cells were infected with Coronavirus in a city which was the epicentre of the pandemic.The PRC destroyed all evidence which would could have indicated their culpability. You continue to exhibit your consistent gross, obtuse stupidity in whole or in part.

 

[WyattEarp]

Wrong context. Science isn't the same as a court of law.

I don't agree. Reasonable doubt applies to science.

I've never heard anyone say something like "Follow the science. Ignore the FBI. We've determined that there is a 62% chance that the virus originated.........."

 

[Valcazar]

Since Tianamen Square and the Uygurs near genocide, ya I can pretty much say the CCP will say and do anything to cover up shit. And allow shit loads of death of their own citizens as well.

And in this case they have covered up a shitload.

We know about those things because of information that came from China.
You can't point to those and say that you think everything coming from the geographic location of China is inherently fraudulent unless you are saying that those things didn't exist (which I don't think you want to say) because the info came from China.

So obviously - as I said - claiming all info that originates in China must be fraudulent would be a hell of a thing to say.

Exactly.

I'm not sure what Valcazar was intending to say, but I doubt he believes in broadly believing the Chinese. I'm not sure everyone realizes how easy it is for a brutal, autocratic society to cover things up and how regularly they falsify information.

Of course no one should just default to believing the Chinese government.
We know they are covering things up.
Again, that does not make all data ever found in China fake.

This isn't a difficult concept.

 

[Valcazar]

This is because you have a feeling in your gut and that for you is proof enough eh? LMAO

That's all Butler ever needs.

 

[WyattEarp]

We know about those things because of information that came from China.
You can't point to those and say that you think everything coming from the geographic location of China is inherently fraudulent unless you are saying that those things didn't exist (which I don't think you want to say) because the info came from China.

 

[WyattEarp]

Of course no one should just default to believing the Chinese government.

So where's the disagreement.

 

[Butler1000]

We know about those things because of information that came from China.
You can't point to those and say that you think everything coming from the geographic location of China is inherently fraudulent unless you are saying that those things didn't exist (which I don't think you want to say) because the info came from China.

So obviously - as I said - claiming all info that originates in China must be fraudulent would be a hell of a thing to say.



Of course no one should just default to believing the Chinese government.
We know they are covering things up.
Again, that does not make all data ever found in China fake.

This isn't a difficult concept.

Holy fuck, we know about those things because IT WAS LEAKED from China. Why do you think Google is banned there?!?

Holy fuck, biggest gaslight ever!

And considering they won't even tell the world their actual death toll, yes I can say everything that would cause futher blame to them is being lied about with confidence. That is an even easier concept.

 

[Butler1000]

View attachment 252394

Incredible isn't it? All because Trump said something. They are so committed to him bring wrong on everything they will ride this lie to death.

 

[WyattEarp]

Incredible isn't it? All because Trump said something. They are so committed to him bring wrong on everything they will ride this lie to death.

Seems like much of the discussion just ignores the FBI's assessment. I don't view them as the definitive authority on this, but one might suspect they have information they won't share. It's a conundrum that likely means we will never truly know the answer. But that is what some scientists have been saying for awhile now.

Much of this discussion is degenerating into usual social media quibbling.

You can't prove the lab leak!

Why do I have to prove the lab leak to say there isn't enough direct and timely evidence to validate the wet market as the origin? The wet market is just a good guess based on the history of viral outbreaks.

 

[basketcase]

No, I state the source of the evidence is important.

It is. But it is still evidence as compared to your claims that it must have been a lab leak because we can't trust the Chinese government.

 

[basketcase]

Yes China has a lab……and this lab was in Wuhan, a lab called the Wuhan Virological Institute which was engaged against the advice and repeated cautions of the international science community, in research where human cells were infected with Coronavirus in a city which was the epicentre of the pandemic.The PRC destroyed all evidence which would could have indicated their culpability. You continue to exhibit your consistent gross, obtuse stupidity in whole or in part.

It must be sad to have to deal with people like you in real life if that's your sense of logic and reality.

 

[basketcase]

I don't agree. Reasonable doubt applies to science.
...

Not in the context you're pretending. Science is about the theory that best explains/fits the evidence available. Based on current evidence, an animal source in the area of the market far better fits the available data when compared to the possibility of it being a lab across town from there the outbreaks were. There is likely no possible way to completely rule out the possibility of a lab leak but that's not much different from our ability to completely rule in/out the existence of Dark Matter.