Covid-19 most likely came from a lab leak,,,,,,,,,duh

[Valcazar]

If the PRC believed that zoonotic transfer in a wet market which happened to be in Wuhan was the cause of this pandemic, then the PRC would have closed all similar wet markets across China, indefinitely. However, since the PRC doesn’t believe that zoonotic transfer caused this pandemic, they did not close the thousands of wet markets across China and have since allowed the Wuhan wet markets to re-open. Your quotes are from 2020.

The only thing unique about the Wuhan wet market is that this market happens to be in a city where a large research facility just down the street, engaged in deliberately infecting human cells with Coronavirus. The distinguished and renowned scientists at the WIV state that zoonotic transfer did not result in Covid-19 and they should know….don’t you think !

It is interesting that those who espouse the zoonotic theory , this cabal that follows the “science”, conveniently do not mention the PRC’s
continued denial of the zoonotic theory.

Did they allow them to reopen with the wild animals?
Yes or no?
Or do you believe all markets with live animals should be shut down everywhere?

I mention the PRC's denial of the zoonotic transfer all the time.
Mostly to point out that every piece of "evidence" about the PRC's behavior that people use to argue the lab leak must obviously be true applies to the zoonotic transfer theory as well.
They covered up the scene, cleaned it and didn't allow investigators. Insist it couldn't have happened and it must be the US. Etc.

 

[basketcase]

...

Basketcase says that he is proud to follow the “ science” even when the scientist in China at the heart of the pandemic have erased much of their work.

China's reluctance to share information doesn't mean your made up version has any merit. I'll stick with the evidence we have available.

 

[lomotil]

China's reluctance to share information doesn't mean your made up version has any merit. I'll stick with the evidence we have available.

The PRC threw out a mea culpa in February 2020 by releasing the DNA sequencing for Covid-19. They were sheepishly asking the international scientific community for help. The Wuhan lab had the sequencing much earlier for some reason, likely because they where deliberately infecting human cells with Coronavirus well before the pandemic.
The actions of the PRC strongly support a cover up of a lab leak with the destruction of data, unwillingness to cooperate and silencing of the WIV staff and other in the know that are under their influence both domestically or foreign actors.

Again, are you on the payroll of the PRC ?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202100015

 

[basketcase]

The PRC threw out a mea culpa in February 2020 by releasing the DNA sequencing for Covid-19. They were sheepishly asking the international scientific community for help. The Wuhan lab had the sequencing much earlier for some reason, likely because they where deliberately infecting human cells with Coronavirus well before the pandemic.
The actions of the PRC strongly support a cover up of a lab leak with the destruction of data, unwillingness to cooperate and silencing of the WIV staff and other in the know that are under their influence both domestically or foreign actors.

Again, are you on the payroll of the PRC ?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/bies.202100015

Ah, conspiracy theories. I guess they're more fun than facts.

 

[lomotil]

Ah, conspiracy theories. I guess they're more fun than facts.

Ah,,,,there’s the rub..
Sometimes the scales of justice tip towards “conspiracy theories”than “ so called facts” .

Are you convenient inside a kangaroo court controlled by the PRC or just moronically obtuse ?

 

[basketcase]

Ah,,,,there’s the rub..
Sometimes the scales of justice tip towards “conspiracy theories”than “ so called facts” .

Are you convenient inside a kangaroo court controlled by the PRC or just moronically obtuse ?

Ah, the rub is that you need to provide some evidence for anyone in the scientific community to take you seriously. A gap in evidence might create suspicion but suspicion on its own does not support a conclusion.


p.s. The biggest indicator of your lack of a clue is that you constantly need to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is a Chinese stooge when it's far more likely that you're the result of a Russian bot farm.

 

[lomotil]

Ah, the rub is that you need to provide some evidence for anyone in the scientific community to take you seriously. A gap in evidence might create suspicion but suspicion on its own does not support a conclusion.


p.s. The biggest indicator of your lack of a clue is that you constantly need to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is a Chinese stooge when it's far more likely that you're the result of a Russian bot farm.

Did they allow them to reopen with the wild animals?
Yes or no?
Or do you believe all markets with live animals should be shut down everywhere?

I mention the PRC's denial of the zoonotic transfer all the time.
Mostly to point out that every piece of "evidence" about the PRC's behavior that people use to argue the lab leak must obviously be true applies to the zoonotic transfer theory as well.
They covered up the scene, cleaned it and didn't allow investigators. Insist it couldn't have happened and it must be the US. Etc.

Basketcase who has put himself out on a limb, remains consistently and predictable obtuse and shows his hypocrisy by not attacking his ally’s somewhat cogent post.

Basket is happy to use the “science” a science which he uses to justify the obstruction of justice, reality and common sense where a crime has been committed by the PRC in allowing the reckless and obviously heinous research towards infecting human cells with Coronavirus, then after the Pandemic appeared, destroying evidence, lying to the international community, lying to the domestic Chinese population and not cooperating with international scientific community.

Due to geopolitical realities, America is not able to tell their banker, the PRC what to do..

If Basketcase had his mouth and asshole swapped, the Petri dish would produce the same sad result.

 

[basketcase]

Basketcase who has put himself out on a limb, r...

If Basketcase had his mouth and asshole swapped, the Petri dish would produce the same sad result.

Such a crazy limb where people base decisions on evidence.

 

[lomotil]

The zoonotic transfer cabal is the”Jack Ruby” of the origins of Covid-19 either intentionally or by accident.

 

[The Oracle]

China's reluctance to share information doesn't mean your made up version has any merit. I'll stick with the evidence we have available.

Enjoy your chow mein......

 

[basketcase]

Enjoy your chow mein......

I enjoy Chinese food but prefer shanghai noodles to chow mein.

 

[WyattEarp]

Scientists who publish their data.

Could it be based on faulty data? Maybe. Do you have any evidence that it's fake? Of course not.

From what I have read all the data is being originated by Chinese scientists. That's fine, but skepticism is in order. The Chinese have been fucking around with COVID data since the outbreak. It's their modus operandi. The Chinese mess with all sorts of data to present an image to the world.

Many virologists have admitted the wet market theory is only supported by circumstantial evidence. They are focused on raccoon dogs, but they can't be sure if the live raccoon dogs brought it into the Wuhan wet market or humans passed the virus to the raccoon dogs. By the time they tested samples from the wet market, the virus was raging all over Wuhan.

@lomotil presented some of the more absurd statements and actions of the Chinese. They deny the virus outbreak originated in Wuhan. There is even the Chinese CDC head saying it's possible the virus leaked from the Wuhan lab. This itself is a very interesting acknowledgement. All of this leads us to believe we will never know definitively where the virus originated.

You can't simply ignore information that doesn't fit the wet market theory. It's like you locked in on the wet market theory in spring/summer 2020 and have refused to consider new information and new questions from various experts in the field.

 

[WyattEarp]

Ah, conspiracy theories. I guess they're more fun than facts.

Naw, a conspiracy theory requires more complex details than the virus simply could have originated seven or eight miles away from the wet market. Both the wet market theory and the lab leak theory are simple in nature.

Saying the Chinese are manipulating COVID data and information is not even in doubt. It's just a matter of what one chooses to believe out of a dog's breakfast of obfuscation and misinformation perhaps mixed in with some truth.

 

[WyattEarp]

Are you convenient inside a kangaroo court controlled by the PRC or just moronically obtuse ?

This isn't the first issue where basketcase locked into a geopolitical position that inadvertently was sleeping with the enemy. I have cautioned him and others here before to not get turned around simply because they don't like the words coming from a domestic opponent.

Geopolitics can swing so fast that you need to have a flexible mind.

 

[WyattEarp]

Interesting article that throws into doubt so called "the evidence".

There Is No Evidence Strong Enough to End the Pandemic-Origins Debate - The Atlantic

"In a landscape so sparsely populated by data, it gets all too easy for people to fill in the gaps with speculation; “what starts off as a weak preference,” Hughes (Alice Hughes, a conservation biologist at the University of Hong Kong), told me, “becomes almost like a religion.” I’ve been reporting now for three years on many controversial COVID stories, along the way interviewing hundreds of opinionated scientists about dozens of thorny questions. Through it all, this debate has stood out for being so ignitable. Individual data points have become catalysts; single statements have been endlessly scrutinized. And experts have staked out territory and stuck to it almost dogmatically—many of them to the point of avoiding admitting past mistakes. COVID’s origins are now shrouded in combustible gas, with matches scattered everywhere: Lighting up a single point, normally harmless enough, inevitably sets off a conflagration."

 

[squeezer]

From what I have read all the data is being originated by Chinese scientists. That's fine, but skepticism is in order. The Chinese have been fucking around with COVID data since the outbreak. It's their modus operandi. The Chinese mess with all sorts of data to present an image to the world.

Many virologists have admitted the wet market theory is only supported by circumstantial evidence. They are focused on raccoon dogs, but they can't be sure if the live raccoon dogs brought it into the Wuhan wet market or humans passed the virus to the raccoon dogs. By the time they tested samples from the wet market, the virus was raging all over Wuhan.

@lomotil presented some of the more absurd statements and actions of the Chinese. They deny the virus outbreak originated in Wuhan. There is even the Chinese CDC head saying it's possible the virus leaked from the Wuhan lab. This itself is a very interesting acknowledgement. All of this leads us to believe we will never know definitively where the virus originated.

You can't simply ignore information that doesn't fit the wet market theory. It's like you locked in on the wet market theory in spring/summer 2020 and have refused to consider new information and new questions from various experts in the field.

Wyatt, the experts, journals, etc...can never outsmart you eh? LOL

I pulled out a snippet but please, take the time to read it all. Don't take it from Basketcase or anyone else, just read, it can be eye opening.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081

Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence. More than half of the earliest Covid-19 cases were connected to the Huanan market, and epidemiologic mapping revealed that the concentration of cases was centered there. In January 2020, Chinese officials cleared the market without testing live animals, but positive environmental samples, including those from an animal cage and a hair-and-feather–removal machine, indicated the presence of both SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-susceptible animals.5 Recently released findings included raccoon dog DNA, pointing to a possible SARS-CoV-2 progenitor. Samples from early cases in humans also contained two different SARS-CoV-2 lineages. Although only one lineage spread globally, the existence of multiple lineages suggests that a SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in animals may have led to multiple spillover events.

 

[Valcazar]

From what I have read all the data is being originated by Chinese scientists. That's fine, but skepticism is in order. The Chinese have been fucking around with COVID data since the outbreak. It's their modus operandi. The Chinese mess with all sorts of data to present an image to the world.

No argument.
But that doesn't mean "throw out all the data".

Many virologists have admitted the wet market theory is only supported by circumstantial evidence.

"Admitted"?
They've all been up front about that since the beginning.
As far as I know, no one has ever claimed to have data they don't have and how and why people claim the data supports a given position has been spelled out in the journals when published.

They are focused on raccoon dogs, but they can't be sure if the live raccoon dogs brought it into the Wuhan wet market or humans passed the virus to the raccoon dogs. By the time they tested samples from the wet market, the virus was raging all over Wuhan.

Yes.
The Chinese government made sure anything else was impossible.

You can't simply ignore information that doesn't fit the wet market theory. It's like you locked in on the wet market theory in spring/summer 2020 and have refused to consider new information and new questions from various experts in the field.

Sure.
But most information we have still supports the wet market theory far better than any alternate explanation.

More data can always change that, but that's the situation as it stands right now.

 

[Valcazar]

Interesting article that throws into doubt so called "the evidence".

There Is No Evidence Strong Enough to End the Pandemic-Origins Debate - The Atlantic

"In a landscape so sparsely populated by data, it gets all too easy for people to fill in the gaps with speculation; “what starts off as a weak preference,” Hughes (Alice Hughes, a conservation biologist at the University of Hong Kong), told me, “becomes almost like a religion.” I’ve been reporting now for three years on many controversial COVID stories, along the way interviewing hundreds of opinionated scientists about dozens of thorny questions. Through it all, this debate has stood out for being so ignitable. Individual data points have become catalysts; single statements have been endlessly scrutinized. And experts have staked out territory and stuck to it almost dogmatically—many of them to the point of avoiding admitting past mistakes. COVID’s origins are now shrouded in combustible gas, with matches scattered everywhere: Lighting up a single point, normally harmless enough, inevitably sets off a conflagration."

Wyatt, the experts, journals, etc...can never outsmart you eh? LOL

I pulled out a snippet but please, take the time to read it all. Don't take it from Basketcase or anyone else, just read, it can be eye opening.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081

Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence. More than half of the earliest Covid-19 cases were connected to the Huanan market, and epidemiologic mapping revealed that the concentration of cases was centered there. In January 2020, Chinese officials cleared the market without testing live animals, but positive environmental samples, including those from an animal cage and a hair-and-feather–removal machine, indicated the presence of both SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-susceptible animals.5 Recently released findings included raccoon dog DNA, pointing to a possible SARS-CoV-2 progenitor. Samples from early cases in humans also contained two different SARS-CoV-2 lineages. Although only one lineage spread globally, the existence of multiple lineages suggests that a SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in animals may have led to multiple spillover events.

You two both realize that your back-to-back posted articles are in strong agreement with each other, right?

 

[squeezer]

You two both realize that your back-to-back posted articles are in strong agreement with each other, right?

 

[WyattEarp]

Wyatt, the experts, journals, etc...can never outsmart you eh? LOL

I pulled out a snippet but please, take the time to read it all. Don't take it from Basketcase or anyone else, just read, it can be eye opening.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2305081

Of the three possibilities — natural, accidental, or deliberate — the most scientific evidence yet identified supports natural emergence. More than half of the earliest Covid-19 cases were connected to the Huanan market, and epidemiologic mapping revealed that the concentration of cases was centered there. In January 2020, Chinese officials cleared the market without testing live animals, but positive environmental samples, including those from an animal cage and a hair-and-feather–removal machine, indicated the presence of both SARS-CoV-2 and Covid-susceptible animals.5 Recently released findings included raccoon dog DNA, pointing to a possible SARS-CoV-2 progenitor. Samples from early cases in humans also contained two different SARS-CoV-2 lineages. Although only one lineage spread globally, the existence of multiple lineages suggests that a SARS-CoV-2 epidemic in animals may have led to multiple spillover events.

Are you following the thread or pulling a basketcase where you ignore anything that doesn't support your POV?

You don't think it's interesting and/or odd George Gao the head of China's CDC (until 2022) said there is a possibility that the virus escaped from the lab? He knows more about the lab, it's research, it's safety record than any "expert" sitting in the U.S. or Europe. He also knows more about the capabilities and biases of the people in Wuhan doing the testing and mapping. That's not to mention pressures coming from above on all those involved.

You boys are strange. You cling to theories as gospel and never have any doubts. You would be scary motherfuckers to be on a jury.