Condo Prices

[niloc65]

But the reality is you have to eat, shower, sleep and shit somewhere. The market will not crash like it did in the early 90's for many reasons. So what if there is a minor correction. You still live in the property. The loss only occurs if and when you sell.

I totally agree with this statement. If your planning on livivng there for at least 5 years, you have a lot of time to watch the market and make your move. And plus if you rent your just throwing your money away, at least this way you are you are putting it to work for you.

I have been looking downtown area, there seems to be some good deals there also? What about the Waterpark city area near the EX, anybody got comments on that area?

 

[Body Opus]

Here are some good points:
-the market is hot right now, and the longer you wait, the higher the price of your condo will be. The best times to buy Real Estate is in the winter, and xmas. Really, no-one wants to move or sell during that time because of the weather, and you can't really "see" the property & who wants to be moving boxes and the xmas tree?

-condos are always going to be the first hit if the market corrects. I don't the market correcting itself anytime soon. And you're putting more than 5% so you've got equity in your home, so I don't think you'll be affected much should rates change etc. It's the people who put 0% down, borrow the closing costs, and can hardly afford what they're buying, that should be worried.

- yonge and finch is a subway stop. you'll always maintain some sort of value being on the subway line (rental possibilities, and area development).

-yonge and eglinton (established area ),
yonge and sheppard (theatre, small mall, grocery store) ,
yonge and Empress (theatre, small mall, grocery store),
yonge and Finch (no theatre, no mall, grocery more than 2 blocks away).

Can you see how each stop is progressively getting more and more densly populated, and being saturated with stores, movie theatres, and bars? You can't really go too wrong.

All good points...
This condo market is being held up by offshore investors and new immigrants,
In the Yonge/Finch area it's mostly Persian, Chinese, E. Europeans puchasers.
With the U.S. planning on invading Iran this summer, many many more Persians will be calling Canada home and China's rocky relationship with the U.S, E. Europe still unstable...Canada is a safe haven in this F***** UP world, so if the demand is here and the with Interest rates at 5%, real estate is still a good investment.
BUT, if interest rates go beyond 7%....this market will be SHUT DOWN....not to mention $1.00 + gas at the pumps, I can see inflation wories raising their ugly head and the Fed. will have to raise rates.
My advice, if you are looking for a principal residence, someplace to live and be happy, this area is excellent area, if you are looking at it as an investment, you might have a uncertain future , but, with time it will be profitable.
(eg.) I grew up in the Yonge/ Sheppard area, in 1985 a bungalow sold for $150 K twenty years later that same bungalow is worth $650-$750 K, U do the math.
Like they say in real estate...LOCTION, LOCATION, LOCATION

 

[strange1]

A good site to check recent sales trends.

http://www.baker-re.com/baker/resales/mls_boundry.asp

 

[Guy7]

Condo Prices!

I looking to buy a condo in the yonge and finch area. They seem high. Just wondering if I should wait until the end of March or April to buy. I'm kinda worried that if I spend 250G's now that next year it will be worth 200G's. Is the real estate market going to crash and burn soon?

Any thoughts would be great.

Thanks

Stugots.[/QUOT
Yaa better be very careful, the Condo Market in Toronto & Mississauga have crashed and maybe the prices may further go down, as now a days houses are selling like hot cakes, so better do your homework well before you take a plunge and then feel sorry for yourself and for the loss of your $$$$$$$$$$
Buying a Condo these days has become bit risky. There is more supply than demand.

 

[Keebler Elf]

But the reality is you have to eat, shower, sleep and shit somewhere. The market will not crash like it did in the early 90's for many reasons. So what if there is a minor correction. You still live in the property. The loss only occurs if and when you sell.

But if interest rates rise significantly, a lot of people won't be living in that property any longer b/c they won't be able to make the mortgage payments.

 

[Picard]

The condo is located diagonally across from Parkway Honda. It is brand new and luxurious. I wouldn't dismiss the area as shit hole. property tax is low !!!

 

[kbluejayk]

Yonge/Finch is a good investment location, especially with the subway station nearby. Also, the future population growth in Toronto is North, not East; this will impact North York prices more favourably than Scarborough.
The rapidly growing Senior population want to live in safer neighbourhoods and not have to worry about goons firing slugs at each other because somebody 'dissed' them! Or gangs fighting over 'territory'.....This will all impact future real estate values in the long term. Yes, there will be price declines.......but Real Estate is a roller coaster ride, in an UPWARD direction!
So buy that Condo now!

 

[canucklehead]

The thing with real estate is they ain't making no more ........... problem with condos are that there are going to be an estimated surplus of 2500 units in the GTA at the end of 2005. Look at the builder, the convenience, and the area when you buy.
With condos the old school of thought was to hold onto it between 7 to 10 years to cover your costs ( lawyers fees land transfer moving expenses etc) and between 3 to 5 on houses. With today market i have been able to purchase a few homes before they are built and when they are ready to move into sell and make good money with little risk and capital outlay.

 

[clules]

Yonge and Finch

There are two distinct markets:

1. New Properties - Futures for new Houses and Condos are hard to judge. You do not know what the market is going to be like when your property is ready for you to move in. Buying a new condo today will probably result in a 1 to 2 year wait, even then your may end up having to close on your unit before the building has been "completed". The new house/condo market is starting to cool off. Buyers are worried about what the interest rates are going to be two or more years down the road. Also the builders are running out of places to build within the city, so new housing starts are cooling off.

2. Resale Market - this market is starting to get hot. Last July I purchased a 1100 sq. foot condo just South of Yonge/Finch. It's in a Tridel Building and we have a Dominion downstairs. Loblaws, No Frills and Food Basics are less than 5 minutes away. Every kind of service, restaurant, etc. is walking distance. I paid $303K for my unit. The same unit 5 floors above me sold for $335K last month.

If you are buying a property as your primary residence, take into consideration your lifestyle. Living in a condo at Yonge/Finch is very different from a condo in Richmond Hill or Mississauga. Travel to work, schools, entertainment, etc. should all be taken into consideration with price and the size of the property.

Talk to a real Estate Agent that you trust.

Also, I got the CMHC to send me their New Home Buyer Guide. The guide is amazing even if you already have a property and looking to move.

 

[t_dot]

this thread is about 80% - 20%. the 80% indicating that everything's going to be alright, real estate doesn't go down etc. i've had this convo with tonnes of my friends and family too, and it's about the same split.

i think it's true that if you buy a house or condo now, and hold it for 30 years, it's hard to lose money, but this idea that real estate is different from other financial markets in terms of having ups and downs, and being cyclical, is kind of silly. i heard the same kind of optimism in the late 90s with the tech bubble. i think we all saw how that turned out.

as someone mentioned earlier in this post, the key to this whole house of cards is interest rates. they are way low right now, and the second they go up to their true levels i think we'll see some market cooling off.

 

[clules]

you are probally gonna pay $500-$800 monthly maintainence fee. they have all kinds of management problems. they choosed to mail the annual whatever called book to each unit, that alone cost thousands of dollars. why can't they just drop them at the door? we live in the same building.

And P.S prepare to wake up at 3AM in the morning. Because the building seems to be always on fire.

I do pay $535.25 per month on Maintenance, this includes my heat, hydro, use of the rec. centre and maintenance on the building. Compared to owning a house where I would have to pay for my own maintenance, pay a lot more for property taxes, and pay $$$ for membership to a good fitness club, I think I am about par.

As for mailing out the annual report, they have to follow the rules set up in the Condo Act. They have no choice in the matter, they have to prove that the Annual Report was delivered to the owner of the property. Also, about 30% of the units in this building are leased, the owner does not live in the building, the report has to be sent to the owner.

When it comes to Fire Alarms and other issues, my building is much, much better than a lot of other buildings that I have lived in. The property manager has gone the extra mile to make this building better than other buildings.

Every property has it's pros and cons, you have to decide on what issues you can live with, and the ones you can't.

 

[Body Opus]

i think it's true that if you buy a house or condo now, and hold it for 30 years, it's hard to lose money, but this idea that real estate is different from other financial markets in terms of having ups and downs, and being cyclical, is kind of silly. i heard the same kind of optimism in the late 90s with the tech bubble. i think we all saw how that turned out..

You can't compare this real estate market market to the late 90s with the tech bubble, those companies had no intrinsic value. With real estate you have bricks and mortar and land value, you're not gonna wake up one day and it's dissapeared.
Another point, you can always rent your condo, there is a huge market for condo rentals, particularly downtown. I posted an ad for a condo I own downtown and in the first week I had over 30 applicants. Short term rental is also very lucrative. I'm able to get $1600/month for a furnished 1bdrm downtown.

as someone mentioned earlier in this post, the key to this whole house of cards is interest rates. they are way low right now, and the second they go up to their true levels i think we'll see some market cooling off.

I agree..

 

[Svend]

This isn't relevant to the question but I always wondered what a condo owner and his descendents down the line actually have after 100 years when the building is torn down.
Or even 50 years with some of the crappy units built in the seventies.
At least with a house you still own the land.

 

[LeatherDoll]

I just happened to talk to

my real estate agent this week because my neighbour sold their house - seems my place has doubled in value over the last 12 years.

She said a couple of things: The market is still quite strong, but for houses it is clearly a seller's market. Slowing down does not necessarily mean a drop in prices, and we are certainly not heading for a "crash". What she did say was tht the market is probably maxed out right now (high point) and that we can expect a downturn in pricing just based on normal fluctuation in the market that has traditionally following a 14 year cycle -- we are in year 8 now with a steady rise over all of it.

Nothing is too expensive if you are happy with it. And everyone else has already noted you lose nothing unless you sell.

With prime interest rates still at 4.25%, it makes no sense at all to pay someone elses mortgage. Even if you wanted to buy today and sell in a year, chances are really slim you would lose money - because you've paid yourself equity - you will be paying for housing either way, you might as well put the money back into your own (future) pocket. Or, if you really think prices will drop that much, buy a smaller place now and wait it out.

Look for a variable rate mortgage ( FirstLine Mortgages is awesome) - I pay 0.4% below prime adjusted quarterly and pay every two weeks (so you get an extra 4 weeks of payment in a 12 month period over paying monthly) You pay a fixed amount each week, the lower the interest rate, the higher your principle payment.

And if you can avoid a high ratio mortgage, do it - that 5% down is only for first time buyers and costs a bundle in extra fees and insurance.

200% plus value gain in condo or detached housing market in the gta won't happen again for a long time, if you are planning to buy now. The folks that reaped huge " multiple hundred percent " profit were the ones that bought before the big real estate boom in the late 1980's.

The late 80's may have had prices go insane, but interest rates were 17% or more - those prices were attempts to cover lack of principle on sell out. I'll stay here. It is hard to lose money in real estate these days, especially if you actually live in your property for a while.

As for maintenance fees - it depends on your lifestyle. A condo provides much higher levels of security and services than you are likely to have at home. You've got parking for visitors (something rare for us downtowners). You can go away and know your home is secure and if anything happens while you are away, it will be taken care of. Condos offer a huge convenience factor that you don't get with a house. In a house, you have to do everything - factoring in time and stress, it may not be worth it.

If you really want the best of both worlds, consider a condo that is not a highrise - like a townhouse - where you still have outdoor access.

Your real estate agent will make all the difference here. A good one will lead you into value. Mine is wonderful if you don't already have one, I highly recommend her - she's one of the top in the city. PM me if you want.

 

[Body Opus]

The late 80's may have had prices go insane, but interest rates were 17% or more - those prices were attempts to cover lack of principle on sell out. I'll stay here. It is hard to lose money in real estate these days, especially if you actually live in your property for a while.

Interest rates in the late 80's were as follows:
87-11.2%
88-11.7%
89-12.1%
90-13.4%
91-11.1%
92-9.5%
93-8.9%

Just wanted to clear that up...

Here are a couple of usefull links:
Avg house price graph : http://www.mississauga4sale.com/TREBprice.htm
Avg mortgage rate graph : http://www.mississauga4sale.com/rates.jpg

 

[kbluejayk]

I believe that the 'high interest' period was in the early 80s (17% or more)...
thats when bill collectors were really mercenary!

 

[stugotsms]

New Question

Thanks for all your help. One more question. I looked at a place today on Dorris near sheppard. One of the living room windows had a crack on the dry wall that was pretty thick, bit more than a hair line crack. The crack was from the corner of the window to the floor, maybe 1 foot long. Plus it had a similar crack in the other top corner going to the top of the unit. Could this be a serious problem or is this normal for dry wall to crack in a high rise? Other than that the unit was really nice. Any help would be great.

 

[Body Opus]

Does not sound like a serious problem, BUT, get it checked.
I would use this as a bargaining tool to bring the price down a bit.

 

[stugotsms]

Does not look like a big issue, but you never know. I just don't want it to leak water into the unit.

It to bad since the building is only 1.5 years old.

 

[mmouse]

First of all, we are talking about condo here, specifically in the Finch and Yonge area, in the year of 2005.

200% plus value gain in condo or detached housing market in the gta won't happen again for a long time, if you are planning to buy now. The folks that reaped huge " multiple hundred percent " profit were the ones that bought before the big real estate boom in the late 1980's.

Having said that, if you have any info on condo /houses that have " multiple hundred percent " potential in the area, please provide links.

Berlin, you obviously didn't understand Strongbeau's post.

Where else can you get multiple hundred percent increases in your actual investment - because you only had to lay out 5% of the necessary capital to tie up the asset?

The fewer people that understand that, the better for those of us that do