Comics Thread: Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, etc.....

[Manji]

Oh yeah, Battle Angel Alita!!!

Battle Angel is an awesome series.
Though I would still rank Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind better than Battle Angel. Akira would be tied with Nausicaa and I would rank Crying Freeman somewhat below them (though still a very good read).

Actually, to make things a little clearer here's my ranking for my favourite manga:

Tied for First: Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind / Hayao Miyazaki
Akira / Katsuhiro Otomo
Lone Wolf and Cub / Kazuo Koike & Goseki Kojima
Second: Blade of the Immortal / Hiroaki Samura
Third: Appleseed / Masamune Shirow
Fourth: Ghost in the Shell / Masamune Shirow
Fifth: Battle Angel Alita / Yukito Kishiro
Sixth: Gunsmith Cats / Kenichi Sonoda
Seventh: Crying Freeman / Kazuo Koike & Ryoichi Ikegami
Eighth: Dominion / Masamune Shirow
Ninth: Outlanders / Johji Manabe
Tenth: Grey / Yoshihisa Tagami

A special shout out goes to Usagi Yojimbo (Rabbit Bodyguard) by Stan Sakai which is not an actual Japanese Manga but is good enough to be ranked with the best of them. The story of a rabbit ronin that travels through Tokugawa Japan (1600's) to find the Way of the Warrior. Part comic, part Japanese samurai tale and part history lesson; Usagi Yojimbo is all entertaining. Good read for kids and adults.

(If anybody wants to know more about the titles I have chosen, feel free to ask. Though my summary will probably not be as thorough as Sinestro's explainations)

 

[Sinestro]

Hey, Manji...thoroughness isn't all it's cracked up to be; some people might find brevity to be a welcome change from my novel-length responses. If nothing else, at least they're boosting my post count. Great list, by the way; if I'm King Fanboy of North American comics, then you, my friend are certainly lord of all things Japanese. I tip my hat to you.
And now, a quick list of my own, partly to compliment yours, and partly to ammend a grievous oversight (thank you, SirWanker, for pointing out the absensce of Frank Miller from these discussions; how can you have a comic thread without talking about him?).
So here they are, folks, in no particular order, and as many as I can think of off the top of my head...my all-time favourite reads:

Watchmen (Moore/Gibbons)
V for Vendetta (Moore/Lloyd)
The Dark Knight Returns (Miller)
Batman: Year One (Miller/Mazzucchelli)
The Killing Joke (Moore/Boland)
Kingdom Come (Waid/Ross)
Marvels (Busiek/Ross)
Starman (the entire run; Robinson/Harris/Snejberg)
Planetary (the entire run to date; Ellis/Cassaday)
Final Night (I know this one's not gonna make anybody else's Top 10, but it was magnificently well-executed for a company-wide event, it had great Immonen art, and it featured the heart-rending death of Hal Jordan; it's a sentimental choice; Kesel/Immonen)
Books of Magic (Gaiman, etc.)
Understanding Comics (Scott McCloud)
Palestine (another sentimental choice, but, again, a great read; Sacco)
Fearful Symmetry: Kraven's Last Hunt (DeMatteis/Zeck)
The Golden Age (Robinson/Smith)
Bone (Smith)

...And here are a few in my back-log that I'm trying to find the time to read:

Daredevil: Born Again (Miller/Mazzucchelli)
Sandman (the entire run; Gaiman)
Miracle Man (got three out of the four trades from the Eclipse days!; Moore)
Stormwatch (Ellis/Raney)

So, there they are; let the debate commence...!

P.S. Manji: Kudos on the Star Trek/sci fi thread; I see that the geekifying of the TERB continues apace. Perhaps I'll stop in and offer an opinion or two. And for those who don't know it yet, there's also an anime thread going strong in the Movie/DVD Review section. Comics, science fiction, anime...it's the geek trifecta!

 

[Manji]

Awww thanks Sinestro .... You're making me blush!!

I forgot to add Preacher to the list. Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon. What an amazing series.
Heard they were going to do a movie and Ben Affleck was supposed to be in it. After seeing him in Daredevil; I think Affleck should be shot if he even considers doing another comic book movie.
(Garth Ennis and Steve Dillon's run on Punisher is a funny and violent read as well. I think there are two trade paperbacks involving their work with the Punisher.)

Kingdom Come, Alex Ross' art is in a class of it own. Was thrilled to see his artwork in the opening of SpiderMan 2.

Maybe every week right after comic book day; we should nominate a comic of the week. What you personally see as your favourite comic that came out that week. Sort of a comic of the week club! Or is that pushing it!?!

 

[SirWanker]

Manji, Sinestro

Man you guys are geeker than I!!! Mind you, I have been out of the comic scene for more than 8 years now so most of the stuff you've been mentioning is news to moi.

So out of all the comics, which would you most like to see on the big screen?

I would be thrilled to see Alita come to life with
oh Natalie Portman as the title character
Kiefer Sutherland as Ido
Gary Oldman as Desty Nova

 

[Manji]

But my mom says I'm cool!

 

[Sinestro]

Manji...
I heard it was James Marsden (Cyclops from the X-Men movies) that was slated to play Jesse Custer; I'm not sure that that's a step up. As for Affleck, I don't think we have to worry about him donning tights again any time soon. After Paycheck bombed, he was quoted as saying that he was done with action movies. And comic fans breathe a collective sigh of relief...
You're right about the Ennis/Dillon run on the Marvel Knights Punisher: some of the funniest freakin' stuff I've ever read. Totally twisted. The horrendous Punisher movie was supposed to be based on the twelve issue lead-in maxi-series 'Welcome Back, Frank' (now in TPB), but, as usual, Hollywood dropped the ball. With the exception of the inclusion of a couple of supporting players from the series, it bore no resemblence to the source material. Would it have killed them to give the Russian a huge set of boobs and a Britney tee? Where's the integrity? Damn...
Comic of the week club? Hell, the only trouble I'd have is narrowing it down to a single book. This week alone I was blown away by: Hawkman (the new writing team of Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti's kicking ass; and the Sook art...!), Plastic Man (pee-your-pants-funny; loooove Kyle Baker's take), Birds of Prey (Gail Simone has totally saved this book), Wonder Woman (Rucka & Johnson...awsome; this one's rocketing to the top of my must-read list), Robin (Willingham's beginning to hit his stride with the intro of Stephanie as Robin and artist Damion Scott's quite a find), Flash (Mirror Master's origin by Geoff Johns; powerful stuff), Daredevil (not a single misfire since Bendis and Maleev took over; damn them for making me love this book!), and the first issue of Justice League Elite (didn't think I'd like this one after the bomb that was Justice League #100; thank you for proving me wrong, Kelly and Mahnke). Wait, is this what you meant by 'pushing it'...?
Dude...between us, we've started an anime thread, a comic book thread, and a sci fi thread. I think we've pretty much been outted as the biggest geeks on the board; at this point, we've probably made the province's top 10. We've hit bottom, friend...time to embrace what we are...

 

[Manji]

You know what SirWanker.

Out of all the comic movies that I want to see come out on the big screen, I would say anything with big robots. Like real big robots.
Gundam, Macross, Patlabor... Cause they have not had a movie like that yet.
Anything with big robots blasting each other, duking it out, knocking buildings down and squishing people.
Also there would have to be huge space battles (and the fleet would have to be done by models and not by computer graphics) with plenty robots attacking each other and their fleets.


Other than that:

Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind (Natalie Portman would be a good choice for Nausicaa as well!)

Deadpool ( I think he would be a great character on the big screen. An anti-hero who loves death and destruction and always has something to say; if Bruce Campbell were younger by like twenty years I would say that he would be perfect for the part)

100 Bullets (may be a good movie but I think it would be a great tv series as long as they didn't pull no punches. Have to be an Hbo thing)

Top Ten would be a great movie. Visually exciting and extremly imaginative, perfect for the Big Screen.

That's all I can think of for now....

 

[Sinestro]

SirWanker...
Y'know, after having seen most of the comic movies ever made, I can honestly say that I'd die a happy man if Hollywood, never, ever made another. I have been more than pleased by the recent small screen adaptations of Batman, Superman, the Justice League, and the Teen Titans; why tempt fate with anything more ambitious...?
Manji, I agree that 100 Bullets would make for a great t.v. series, but as for the other stuff... Hell, if I want a Patlabor movie, I've got three from which to choose, and any one of them could put to shame most of the live-action flicks out there right now.
Y'know...that's what I want to see more of on the big screen: anime. Screw a live-action adaptation; take the original material, slap the subtitles on and pass the popcorn. Anime on the big screen...I'm living in a fool's paradise...

 

[thewanderer]

BORG ON DS9

Sorry guys I really expected one of the STERK to pick this one up. In the episode when Daxs ex - lover from another host body shows up on DS9, and by law she is not allowed to have another relationship with the same trill, the twist is that now the host of the trill is a women so the lesbian issue is exposed as well as the Trill host is assimilated later and becomes the queen Borg and the same actress plays the B-queen in one episode. Just like how Tuvok was in each series except the original as a different character and the actor who played Rayon was also many different people.

Sorry for the confusion It allot like " How many different actors played James Bond "

W

 

[Manji]

Not wanting to add to the confusion but.....

thewanderer

You got the wrong thread!?!
This is the comics thread, not the Sci-fi thread.

 

[Manji]

I have to agree that Hollywood has an uncanny way of screwing up Comic Book movies.
I don't understand it. I don't know why the fuck they tinker with something that isn't even broken. They come out with shit when there are amazing scripts written in comic book form.
I would be more than happy to see a movie that is well done with a great plot taken from an actual comic even though I will already know what is going to happen.

Although Spiderman was a well done movie (not a great one) I thought the ending could have been way better if they had kept the dramatic finale as it was in the comic book. They should have had Kristen Dunst play Gwen Stacy and have her fall to her death. Then have another actress (a sexier one) play Mary Jane step in and try to heal Peter Parker's pain and be his new love interest.
I think this would have been a way better ending especially if they were planning to do more than one Spiderman movie.

A League of the Extraordinary Gentleman; a movie that they severly fucked with but should have just kept as is it is from the comic!!

X Men; could have used the new Ultimate X Men as their script.

And so on and so on.

As for comics not being movies (or anime); I disagree. I love comics, I love anime and I love live action movies on the big screen. Thus I love it when I see characters/stories cross the mediums (as long as they are well done and not fucked with!!!!).

 

[thewanderer]

Manji

Thanks Manji


I’m just responding to ones who asked here about this. I had posted about this above and a couple of people were asking. Now Star Trek was also a comic in Marvel I believe. And on Comics what did every one think of the Avengers/ JLA cross over. I was especially confused about the Superman / Thor as both are may favorite from each comic. I m mean Thors hammer is magic so Sups would have been defenseless against this.

As well we all know Captain America would mop the floor with Batman. All so having Wonder Woman kick Hercules ass as a bit much.

W

 

[knight66]

I thingk the JLA/Avengers crossover was a bit confusing at times as well. Anid definately had some conflicts in the characteras Thewanderer pointed out.
However, I do not beleive the Captain America would mop the with Batman.
I do beleive they fought in the DC vs. Marvel mini series a few years back (or was it daredevil). And it ws a draw.
I'm not saying that Batman would win ( the Capt is of course a bio engineered soldier) but it would be very close.
Anyone following the new Identity Crisis storyline?

 

[prof]

thewanderer..

Captain America would not mop the floor Batman. Cap has no super powers. Both are world-class athletes trained in the deadliest forms of hand-to-hand combat. It would be a even match physically but mentally Bats has Cap beat.

Wonder Woman is only a step down in power to Superman in the DC universe so she could kick Hercules ass given the fact that Hercules would probably underestimate her because she's female.

Man...I love crossover battles...

Movie News:

Check out the new "Constantine" preview on Yahoo Movies...starring Keanu Reeves as everyone's favourite "ghostbuster".

Fantastic Four has just been cast. Jessica Alba as the Invisible girl..wow. Can't wait to see who gets cast as Docter Doom.

Brian Singer signs on as the director of the new Superman movie. About time.

 

[Manji]

I would have to say that if Batman and Captain America would fight it would be close. In hand to hand, Captain America would have the edge because he it genetically engineered and has more experience in fighting. Unfortunatly Captain America is a straight edge guy who would not use deceptive tactics where Batman would. Batman is cunning and clever and his utility belt has proven to be quite handy. From batarangs, to sleeping gas, to tasers, etc...; Batman has got a whole arsenal to keep Captain America pretty busy.
Also it would depend on the terrain. If it were out in the open I think Cap would have the edge. But say in a dark warehouse, Batman knows how the use stealth to his advantage.
Overall, I would say it was close but I would give it to Batman.

I would have to say Wonder Woman would kick Hercules (that's Marvel's Hercules right?) ass. She can fly now can't she? If she can, then she definitly could kick his ass.

 

[Manji]

Just read on the net about Jack Black as the Green Lantern.
Apparently DC Comics was against the idea. In fact they "tried desperately" to stop Warner Brothers from going through with the idea.
So much for listening to sound and expert advice. The movie is described as being in the same vein as the The Mask>
What the fuck?
Why didn't they just make another Mask?

Found a petition that is circulating on the net and implores Warner Brothers from going through with this Jack Black as Green Lantern idea:

http://www.petitiononline.com/GLantern/petition.html

 

[Sinestro]

Regarding JLA/Avengers: It was done as well as it could have been, given the circumstances; Busiek not only had to write an ensemble piece, he had to do it with various incarnations of two well-established teams while performing a balancing act that would ensure that neither company's characters would be given short shrift. Given the limitations, I'd say he did remarkably well, though, comparatively speaking, the final product was still far from great. While the main plot (the heroes running around on a scavenger hunt) left me cold, the little details captivated me: the fact that the DC Earth is actually bigger in size than the Marvel Earth, which is why DC can accomodate all those imaginary cities; the lack of the Speed Force in the Marvel U, leading to a depowered Flash; the ease with which magic can be wielded in the DCU, leading to an empowered Scarlet Witch, etc. And the heroes' reactions to each others' Earths...perfect! The characterization was spot on in this story, with everybody acting and reacting exactly as one would expect. Extra points are awarded to Busiek for not concocting some menace for the JLA and Avengers to trounce jointly, but rather for doing his homework and dipping into the lore of both companies to craft a credible threat. As for George Perez's art...while others might've preferred someone a little flashier on pencils, I don't think anybody would've been able to nail a project of this scope while getting every single visual detail, both past and present, right. The man's a god.

Regarding Batman vs. Captain America: Alright...I'm a hardcore Batman fan; I admit it. Putting aside my bias for a moment though, let's apply a little logic to this issue. Assuming for the moment that Cap's a master of as many fighting disciplines as Bats (which I don't believe), assuming for the moment that Cap's shield is equal to the task of defending him from every single gadget that Bats has stashed on his person (which I don't believe), assuming for the moment that the combatants are evenly matched physically and mentally (which I don't believe), you're still left with one, inescapable fact: when push comes to shove, Batman will fight dirty to get the job done; Cap won't. Now, if we were talking about Daredevil squaring off against Bats...

Regarding Identity Crisis: Best read of the year so far, just edging out DC: The New Frontier, by Darwyn Cooke and Superman: Secret Identity, by Busiek and Immonen. JMHO...

Regarding Jessica Alba as the Invisible Woman: Of all the head-scratching choices they've made, cast-wise, for the FF movie so far, this one's the head-scratchinest. Consider Sue Storm-Richards: wholesome, blond-haired, blue-eyed, all-American girl (in the strictly 1950's sense). Now consider Jessica Alba: sultry, smokey, exotic, with a wide streak of urban savvy. Hollywood idiocy strikes again. Let's keep a positive thought, though, gentlemen: perhaps they'll decide to tweak Sue's powers so that only her clothes become invisible. Hmmmm...

Regarding Singer on Supes (wait..that doesn't sound right...): Thank God this project has been wrestled away from (God help me) McG (get a real name, you tool!). Goodbye Lex Luthor/General Zod hybrid. Hello leather-clad Superman! Hey...wait a second...!

Regarding Jack Black as Green Lantern: I laugh so that I may not weep...

 

[Manji]

JLA/Avengers was an okay read. Definitly not the most memorable piece of work for me.
The story was pretty interesting, and like Sinestro mentioned, it did bring up some interesting facts on the DC and Marvel universe.
Now a couple of questions from those facts.
What the hell is the Speed Force? Is it energy or some sort magical power that helps speedsters?
Was the planet size something that they just made up for that crossover? Or is assumed that DC's Earth is bigger because they have more made up cities and countries (like Metropolis, Star city and what that fake arab country, Barzastan or something!?!)
I can't say I'm a big fan of Perez's work. Its a little too dated (or old school) for me. I prefer more modern styled artists like Travis Charest, Jim Lee or Pacheco. I think Pacheco could have handled the crossover series.
Anybody know what is up with Travis Charest? Did amazing work on Wildcats but his art just took forever. He was one of the best comic book artists ever; just he couldn't produce his work fast enough. Though the amount of detail he put in his art it wasn't exactly a big surprise that he was always late.

 

[Manji]

In regards to the Batman versus Captain America debate.
I could see Batman squaring Captain America in the balls with a swift kick and that would be that. Nailing somebody in the balls would something Captain America wouldn't even think of doing.

 

[Sinestro]

Manji…
The Speed Force was a concept that Mark Waid introduced in The Flash when he began his run on the book. All the speedsters in the DCU draw their power from this energy field, but none more effectively than Wally West, the current Flash. It was a way for Waid to bind the runners in the DCU (Impulse, the Golden Age Flash, Max Mercury, Johnny Quick, Jesse Quick) into a mini-community, thereby beefing up the book’s supporting cast. It also gave a whole new quasi-mystical bent to one of the original science heroes.
The Speed Force is supernatural, which means that it has nothing to do with creatures for whom speed is an inherent ability (a cheetah, for example, would not draw on the Speed Force in order to run down a gazelle). It also wouldn’t apply to such heroes as Superman, whose speed would technically qualify as a natural attribute, nor Captain Marvel, who, theoretically, channels his speed from the god Mercury (the ‘M’ in ‘SHAZAM’).
The Speed Force isn’t just an energy reservoir, though. It’s the point past the fastest speed that any runner can achieve, a sort of speedster Nirvana, that only the quickest can find their way too. In Crisis On Infinite Earths, Barry Allen had to achieve an unthinkable speed in order to thwart the Anti-Monitor. We watched as he withered and then disappeared in the act of saving the universe. That was Barry becoming one with the Speed Force. All clear now?
As for the issue of planet size…so far as I know, Busiek was the first person to suggest that the DC Earth is bigger than Marvel’s Earth. It’s one of those things that’s so obvious, though, that you kick yourself for not realizing it sooner. In the DCU, fictional cities exist alongside actual cities; they don’t replace them. The size differential is the only thing that makes sense.
If I’d had to choose someone to do this book other than George Perez, I probably would’ve opted for Phil Jimenez. The other artists you mentioned are great, but their strength lies in close-ups, in a tight focus on one or a handful of characters. For a book like JLA/Avengers, where you have these sprawling battles and a high panel count per page, you want the guy that can pack a lot of detail into a small space. If it’s not gonna be Perez, then it’s got to be Jimenez…