Comics Thread: Marvel, DC, Darkhorse, etc.....

Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
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(Takes A Deep Breath...)

Well, we've got a new origin, for one thing. Or maybe it'd be more precise to say it's a bigger origin, encompassing the disparate elements of the Hawkman mythology to form them into a cohesive whole. It takes us all the way back to ancient Egypt, to the kingdom of Prince Khufu Katar and his consort, Shayera (I'm pretty sure it was Shayera). Anyway, one fateful night, way back when, a Thanagarian ship crash landed in this kingdom, depositing a big honking piece of alien technology in old Khufu's lap. He discovered the secrets of the Thanagarian Nth Metal, an alloy which is able to negate the effects of gravity, among other things, and fashioned from it a harness. Thus was born the very first Hawkman. So, Khufu's got an anti-gravity harness, the love of a good woman, and a vast kingdom; happy ending, right? Wrong. A scheming priest, by the name of Hath Set decided he wanted what Khufu had and dispatched both him and his lady love. I can't remember if he died during the commission of the murder or what, but I do know that it wasn't too long after the king and queen had croaked that the priest joined them in the next life. And by 'next life', I mean next incarnation. You see, exposure to the Nth Metal had altered Khufu and Shayera, and presumably Hath Set, so that they were unable to 'move on'. Generation after generation, they would be reborn into new bodies, sometimes aware of their past lives, usually oblivious, but always condemned to repeat the same tragic set of circumstances: Khufu and Shayera would meet, fall in love, and then be cruelly dispatched by Hath Set. Karmically connected, they stumbled down through time, until the twentieth and twenty first centuries...
Now, this is where I start to get a little fuzzy on the details, Manji. I can't quite recall how or when Carter and Shayera Hall bought it, but I'm pretty sure that temporal shenanigans, courtesy of Zero Hour (a Crisis for the 90's), disrupted the whole resurrection thing. I'll have to do a search on Hawkman to get clear on the specifics; here's hoping that some fanboy's been paying closer attention than I have and has thought to put together a chronology or something.
I do know that things were finally put right in the Return of Hawkman arc in JSA (also in TPB), in which the Justice Society, including the latest incarnation of Shiera Saunders, Kendra Saunders, journeys to Thanagar to take on some evil mofo, only to be reunited with Hawkman, who, thanks to a little temporal tweaking, has been 'reassembled'. With the looks of Katar Hol, and the memories and personality of Carter Hall, Hawkman is once again on track to continue his tragic destiny. Or maybe not. Check out the Hawkman monthly, courtesy of Gray, Palmiotti, and Sook to get the current skinny on the Hawks.
There now, Manji...aren't you glad you asked? I'll try and address your Green Lantern and Doctor Light questions tomorrow...unless anybody else would like to take a run at them. Feel free...and feel free to correct any facts I might've gotten wrong here; Hawkman's tricky, and I'm no expert.
This "Everything You Wanted To Know About Hawkman" moment was brought to you by Sinestro, and made possible by the fact that he has no life whatsoever. Night all...
 

Manji

The Balance of Opposites
Jan 17, 2004
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Yes, I am glad I asked. I know bits and pieces of DC's history but your explaination does put everything together.

Just to get the facts straight. Sorry, more questions.
So you're saying the current Hawkman is physically Thangarian but mentally Human? And the current Hawkgirl is Human but she is the current reincarnation of an Egyptian princess? And so are their superpowers mystical or alien or some sort of combination of both?

Hawkworld? Was that a mini series? How would you rate it? And is there a Trade Paper Back out for it?

Are you DC guy or a Marvel guy Sinestro? Do you read the other publishers as well? What are your current favourites?

By the way, very very impressed with your comic knowledge.
You sir, are a true comic geek. I applaud you!
 

Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
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Everytime I Think I'm Out...

Hmmmm...I suppose you could say that Hawkman's physically Thanagarian and mentally human. Physiologically, though, I don't think there's a distinction between the two species. It's a staple of science fiction that humanity can cross the vast expanse of space, travelling billions upon billions of miles, only to be confronted by...more humanity. Oh, but wait...there is a difference: the aliens are the ones with the jet packs and laser pistols. When Kirk and Spock travel to the far side of the galaxy only to end up in 1930's Chicago or ancient Rome, you might be able to chalk it up to budget constraints and/or a lack of imagination. When the same thing happens to, say, Adam Strange, the deeper sociological issues at work become apparent. Ever wonder why it is that Superman so easily inspires confidence and the Martian Manhunter trepidation? Both are aliens, who, having lost their homeworlds, cherish the Earth as only immigrants can; both are heroes with long and respected histories. The former, though, looks like us; the latter doesn't. It might be an over-simplification, but it's food for thought. I digress; let's save discussions of the inherent xenophobia/racism/misogyny of science fiction and fantasy for another thread, okay?
The current Hawkgirl is human, through and through, and, yes, she is the reincarnation of Prince Khufu's queen. Kendra Saunders is the grand niece (is that how you say it?) of Shiera Sanders, the Golden Age Hawkgirl. She isn't just the inheritor of the mantle, though; Kendra Saunders is Shiera Sanders reborn. She came back as her own grand niece...sort of. Much like everything else about Hawkman, it's complicated; there's a suicide involved, a reincarnation in a fully grown body... And did I mention that Shayera Thal, the Thanagarian Hawkwoman and beloved of Katar Hol is still running around? This despite the fact that she's supposed to be part of the chain of rebirth which has Kendra as its latest link. How can they co-exist, you ask? Don't know. Is your head hurting yet, Manji? Just tell me when you want me to stop...
Technically speaking, the Hawks have no powers...unless you count the fact that they keep being reborn, which, as talents go, ain't half bad. Their ability to fly comes from the Nth Metal in their wings and harnesses, which, as stated before, negates the effects of gravity. The current incarnation of Hawkman is fully aware of his past lives and, therefore, has dozens of lifetimes of experience on which to draw; call it 'super wisdom' if you want. In a lot of these lives, Hawkman was a warrior/hero (usually hawk-themed, but without the power of flight until the 40's version), so he's an expert in the use of ancient weapons from various human cultures, not to mention certain Thanagarian hardware, courtesy of the Katar incarnation. That's why you'll usually see Hawkman or Hawkgirl outfitted with maces, spears, swords, etc. I think the Nth Metal increases their physical strength, which is why Hawkman can shatter a car with a single blow from an axe, but I'm not sure what the upper limits of that strength would be. I don't think, for instance, that he could hoist that same car over his head if he wanted. I guess the answer to your question is that the Hawks' talents have their roots in both science and mysticism. (cont'd)
 

Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
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(Must...Complete...Reply...)

Hawkworld, with art and story by Tim Truman, started as a three issue, prestige format limited series before becoming a monthly; think of it as 'Hawkman: Year One'. With Hawkworld, Tim Truman was able to reinvent Hawkman the way that Mike Grell did with Green Arrow in 'The Longbow Hunters'. In the wake of Dark Knight and Watchmen, grim-and-gritty was the order of the day. When it was done well, as it was with the aforementioned Hawkman and Green Arrow, you ended up with heroes that were revitalized, and had a whole new relevance for a rapidly maturing audience. In the hands of talented writers, the kind who didn't just muddy the waters for the sake of muddying them, we got characters who were faced with real moral dillemas in worlds where there were no easy answers; they weren't your dad's superheroes, no sir...
I thought Hawkworld was awesome, working as science fiction, a superhero comic, social commentary... And the art...! There's a reason that Tim Truman is considered a legend in this business. The guy's a true craftsman, forgoing flash for the sake of storytelling, favouring dramatic tension over action. In this splash-page friendly age of ours, Truman's style might be a little hard to take, but trust me when I tell you that it's worth getting past your prejudices to really look at his work. There's a visual language to comics, and few are as fluent with it as Tim Truman...
I believe that Hawkworld was collected into a trade paperback, but it might be out of print; have your comic guy check his Diamond backlist. I got the original three issues from a dollar bin at the Beguiling; maybe you'll have similar luck at that big comic con in August. Hey...some of the best stuff in my collection I pulled from fifty cent/dollar bins at cons. Dig in; you never know what you'll find...
In response to your question, Manji, I am a hardcore and unabashed DC guy, though I do read a handful of titles from Marvel, Image, and Dark Horse as well. I considered posting my reading list to this thread until I realized just how many books would end up on it. My favourites? Ooooo...tough call. Off the top of my head, though, I'd have to say: Planetary (Ellis/Cassaday), Gotham Central (Rucka/Brubaker/Lark), Catwoman (Brubaker/Gulacy), Wonder Woman (Rucka/Johnson), JSA (Johns/?), Hawkman (Gray/Palmiotti/Sook), Birds of Prey (Simone/?), Green Arrow (Winick/Hester), Flash (Johns/Porter), Adventures of Superman (Rucka/Clark), Plastic Man (Baker), Daredevil (Bendis/Maleev), Marvel Knights 4 (Aguirre-Sacassa/McNiven), Wildcats (Casey/Rouleau), Fables (Willingham/Buckingham), Y The Last Man (Vaughn/Guerra), Outsiders (Winick/Raney), Identity Crisis (Meltzer/Morales), DC: New Frontier (Cooke), Liberty Meadows (Cho), PvP (Kurtz)...
...And that's all I can think of right now. Think that's long? You should see the full list. And don't even get me started on my all-time favourite stories/arcs/runs, because that'll be another day lost to posting, another day spent listing, explaining, and justifying instead of surfing for internet porn. Ahhh, internet porn...even now, I can hear its sweet siren song...
Before I go, a warning my friends: extensive comic knowledge is a curse. You become a slave to it, unable to let any opportunity pass to express an opinion, or show off what you know. And so I am condemned to wander the earth, moving from one gathering of geeks to another, forever debating 'Superman or Batman: Who's Cooler?'.
Thank God for debauchery. Hey, I might have to wander, but there's nothing that says my path can't occaisionally lead me through a VIP lounge...
 
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Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
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Crap...One More Thing...

Before I forget, Manji, here's a quick postscript: if you're really interested in knowing what's what in the DCU, pick up "The History of the DC Universe". Brought to you by the same fine folks that gave you Crisis On Infinite Earths, it was intended to act as the new company bible, an illustrated chronology that put DC history into a post-Crisis context.
Most of what's in there should still be valid, and it should be available in trade paperback. Just thought you'd like to know...
 

Manji

The Balance of Opposites
Jan 17, 2004
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I don't know Sinestro.

Why do I need "The History of the DC Universe" when I got you?

I definitly would like to get the Hawkworld TPB (if it exists). I did ask my comic book dealer about Hawkworld a while back; but I didn't know any details of the series (I barely knew the name). Hopefully, I will be able to find it this time around.
 

Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
116
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I Knew This'd Come Back To Bite Me In The Ass...!

Whoa, whoa, whoa...! Let's not start throwing around the 'G' word, gentlemen...
My encyclopedic knowledge of comics exists in a very specific context, y'know? It's just one nuance in the rich tapestry that is...Sinestro.
What about my love of anime, huh? Why not take that into consideration before passing judgement? And how about my devotion to Stargate SG-1? Or my collection of fantasy and science fiction novels? Or my ability to quote Star Wars, The Simpsons, The...Tick...?
...
Holy crap...I am a geek! Ah, well...looks like it's the life of a social outcast for me, boys. Thank God I'm so comfortable with the idea of renting physical affection...
 

Sinestro

Purple All Over
Jan 20, 2004
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This Is Why The Good Lord Gave Us Search Engines, Boys...

One thing at a time, wanderer; I promised Manji answers regarding Green Lantern and Dr. Light.
I might be out of touch for the next couple of days, gents (new comics come out tomorrow and it looks like another big week), but here's a Dr. Fate Fun Fact to tide you over: did you know that the current Dr. Fate is Hector Hall, son of Carter and Shiera Hall(aka Hawkman & Hawkgirl)? Man, that is one messed up family tree...
 

Manji

The Balance of Opposites
Jan 17, 2004
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The current Doctor Fate is the son Hawkman and Hawkgirl!?!
Aww man!!
Does that mean Doctor Fate is half Thanagarian and half human or is he .... ah forget about it!
I remember that there was a female Doctor fate (I think I read that in the classic series: Justice League Europe). She was pretty hot considering that she had yellow metal tea kettle for a head.

Can't wait for another installment of Sinestro's Infinite Guide to DC Universe.
 

thewanderer

New member
Jul 1, 2004
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So are you saying you don’t have a favorite Borg clone chick between the Queen and 7 of 9!!! ????.

And by the way the Queen Borg from the Deep space nine was hotter than the one from the Movie or the Voyager episode.


W
 

Manji

The Balance of Opposites
Jan 17, 2004
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Yeah, there was a Justice League Europe (came out like ten years ago). Since it isn't out anymore, I guess it did bomb like Euro Disney.
 

knight66

New member
Mar 10, 2003
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Ottawa
Neither do I. Other that the pilot episode I don't recall the borg showing up at all. It was all about the Dominion on DS9.

I saw Catwoman and I was a little disappointed. Has nothing to do with the comic book character ( it isn't even Selina Kyle).
Treat it like an Elseworlds.
 

Manji

The Balance of Opposites
Jan 17, 2004
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Catwoman Movie; what the fuck were they thinking?

In regards to the Catwoman movie, treat it like a Leper and ignore it.
That movie looks so fucking stupid. Just the way they have Catwoman moving and climbing down buildings it just hurts my fucking head.
Did Joel Schumacher direct this piece of trash?

On a lighter note, I have to agree and say that I don't remember any Borg or Borg Queen in Deep Space Nine (except for the Series Opener). The closest thing to a Borg Queen was Lucutus (Capt Picard as a Borg); they showed him in the Opener didn't they?

Maybe we are going to have to open a Star Trek Thread!?!
You know, geek it up a notch!!
 

knight66

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Mar 10, 2003
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I would have to lean towards Picard.
He wasn't trigger happy like Kirk.
But when the time came he could still kick the crap out of a Klingon.

I heard a rumor that Jack Black signed on to do a Green Lantern movie. How Screwed up is that.

Why is is that the vast majority of DC comic's movies sucked while Marvel's productions have been great.
Didn't it used to be the other way around
 

SirWanker

Active member
Apr 6, 2002
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hmmmm suprised no one has mentioned Frank Miller's work on DareDevil and Batman the dark knight.

IMHO Akira, Battle Angel Alita and Crying Freeman ranks as THE best out there.
 
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