college degree a waste of money?

[fuji]

I don't need a graduate degree to do my job. The management theory actually required is taught at the undergrad level.

However, everyone else applying for the position was equally over educated. You don't want to be the least educated candidate.

I think there is a bit of an education arms race underway. I fully support increased attention in the value of two year diplomas from reputable schools, and apprentice learning for skilled labour.

However, so long as there is an education arms race I want to be one of the winners.

 

[mrsCALoki]

Somebody gets it.

This whole thread is basically MSOG trying to justify the fact he doesn't have or couldn't get a degree. It almost unanimous with everyone who posted that he's wrong, but being a true contrarian, he does listen.

I have to be careful. If I agree with you too much the peanut gallery will claim you are me or I am you or maybe we are both part of the cosmic turtle?

 

[msog87]

Somebody gets it.

This whole thread is basically MSOG trying to justify the fact he doesn't have or couldn't get a degree. It's almost unanimous with everyone who posted that he's wrong, but being a true contrarian, he doesn't listen.

responses havnt been overwhelmingly against me, off the top of my head id say about half support what im saying. lets not forget basically everyone has some form of post secondary education, so the other half just have trouble admitting they made a mistake, and may even still be paying off student debt. for those who say they did learn skills and that it was worth it, unless they are working in their current field id beg to differ, and also say that they could have learned those skills another way and not spent so much. its like buying a new honda civic for 50k instead of 25k. sure you have a good car, but youve overpaid for it.id also like to add that colleges and universities are filled with the biggest whack jobs teaching, its pretty unbelieveable that people pay all this money to be taught by these morons, they arnt learning any real life skills. I can post lots of proof.

 

[msog87]

I must admit pretty much the same sort of for me. I am not in the field I studied for. But if I could not maintain a university level conversation I would not be where I am now

so you paid x amount of money to learn how to be articulate? like I said read a book, or watch the show frasier lol. give me a break. A woman is much better off buying a pair of nice tits than a useless college degree

 

[SandGino]

responses havnt been overwhelmingly against me, off the top of my head id say about half support what im saying.

Of course the responses have been overwhelmingly against you. More like 95% against..lol
How come you did not get a good education ? Were you just lazy ? Or did you drop out because you were not very bright ? Or like you maybe your parents believed kids don't have to attend school, and that reading books at home, listening to the radio and watching YouTube videos is a substitute for a proper education?

 

[krayjee]

Actually you basically get paid for what you can do and what you know. Everything else is a variation on that. If street smarts trumps book smart how is it that so few dropouts make the big bucks?

According to the sources I have read, most of the billionaires are high school drop outs or university college drop outs. Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Robert Campeau and Sir Richard Branson to name a few.

 

[Moraff]

responses havnt been overwhelmingly against me, off the top of my head id say about half support what im saying. lets not forget basically everyone has some form of post secondary education, so the other half just have trouble admitting they made a mistake, and may even still be paying off student debt. for those who say they did learn skills and that it was worth it, unless they are working in their current field id beg to differ, and also say that they could have learned those skills another way and not spent so much. its like buying a new honda civic for 50k instead of 25k. sure you have a good car, but youve overpaid for it.id also like to add that colleges and universities are filled with the biggest whack jobs teaching, its pretty unbelieveable that people pay all this money to be taught by these morons, they arnt learning any real life skills. I can post lots of proof.

Well when your employer says "we decided to give you the job because you had a college diploma" that pretty much invalidates your argument about picking up the skills elsewhere. To have that told to you by two successive employers (and the only two I've had post-college) seems to help support the theory that while you may not need the piece of paper to do the job, it certainly gives you the edge in getting the job. Especially in today's job market.

 

[blackrock13]

According to the sources I have read, most of the billionaires are high school drop outs or university college drop outs. Donald Trump, Bill Gates, Robert Campeau and Sir Richard Branson to name a few.

I'm sure would like to know what you read because there's a flaw somewhere. There are roughly 400+ billionaire in the US, and a Forbes study shouwed that 110 of them graduated from three universities alone; Harvard Stanford and Columbia and ~190 graduated from the top 10. I don't thin k it would be hard to find another 10 from the rest.

The numbers are also increasing fast.

http://studyusa.learnhub.com/lesson/18959-top-10-billionaire-universities-by-forbes

A list of the world top drop outs is a little shorter

1. Bill Gates [SUP][5][/SUP] – US
2. Mark Zuckerberg [SUP][6][/SUP] – US
3. Lawrence Ellison [SUP][7][/SUP] – US
4. Eike Batista [SUP][8][/SUP] – Brazil
5. Michael Dell [SUP][9][/SUP] – US
6. Marc Rich [SUP][10][/SUP] – US
7. Ty Warner [SUP][11][/SUP] – US
8. Gautam Adani [SUP][12][/SUP] – India
9. Micky Jagtiani [SUP][13][/SUP] – India
10. Shahid Balwa [SUP][14][/SUP] – India
11. Subhash Chandra [SUP][15][/SUP] – India
12. Vinod Goenka [SUP][16][/SUP] – India
13. PNC Menon [SUP][17][/SUP][SUP][18][/SUP] – India
14. Roman Abramovich [SUP][19][/SUP] – Russia
15. Sheldon Adelson [SUP][20][/SUP] – US
16. Amancio Ortega [SUP][21][/SUP] – Spain
17. Kirk Kerkorian [SUP][22][/SUP] – US
18. Donald Newhouse [SUP][23][/SUP] – US
19. François Pinault [SUP][24][/SUP] – France
20. Jack Taylor [SUP][25][/SUP] – US
21. Joaquín Guzmán Loera [SUP][26][/SUP] (Mexican drug lord) – Mexico
22. David Geffen [SUP][27][/SUP] – US
23. David Murdock [SUP][28][/SUP] – US
24. Ted Turner [SUP][29][/SUP] – US
25. Henry Fok [SUP][30][/SUP] – Hong Kong
26. Ralph Lauren [SUP][31][/SUP] – US
27. Mohammed Al Amoudi [SUP][32][/SUP] – Saudi Arabia
28. Stanley Ho [SUP][33][/SUP] – Hong Kong
29. Gabe Newell - US
30. Dustin Moskovitz – US
31. Richard Li – Hong Kong

Half them are in the US. Many of them started work when a university degree was the pretty well the exception not the rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_dropout_billionaires


You also might want to look and see how many are not under 40 (new rich). I believe that nuber is around 20.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brianso...billionaires-in-the-united-states-forbes-400/

Read the list and see how many are college/university grads and/or inherited money.

So 400 billionaire in a working population of ~100,000,000. How do you like those odds?

 

[fuji]

so you paid x amount of money to learn how to be articulate? like I said read a book, or watch the show frasier lol. give me a break. A woman is much better off buying a pair of nice tits than a useless college degree

Seems like you did not spend x, and it does show.

 

[legmann]

I think there is a bit of an education arms race underway.

This, I actually agree with, and it's becoming an increasingly accepted view. The days of a liberal arts degree mattering are long over, but the situation is clearly is getting worse when even business or engineering degrees from top schools are no longer a guarantee - in large part due to the sheer numbers of grads each year versus the number of available positions in any given sector.

Statistically, you will find anomalies at either end of the spectrum -- university grads on welfare, and dropout billionaires. What matters is how the average graduate performs versus the average dropout

Bullet-proof. Probably the best argument in favour of (any) post-secondary education.

 

[mrsCALoki]

...and there are far more homeless dropouts than billionaire dropouts. Statistically, you will find anomalies at either end of the spectrum -- university grads on welfare, and dropout billionaires. What matters is how the average graduate performs versus the average dropout, and numbers don't lie.

The funny part is that the numbers are so clear. https://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/data/earnings/call1usboth.html

A high School grad vs a university grad is almost a 50% gap in income. Pretty much by the time you hit 30 the average University Grad has paid off loans and is sitting there with twice as much money coming in. How can anyone argue with that?

On the unemployment side, you are 3 times more likely to be unemployed if you do not have a degree. How can you argue with that?

Even at the extreme, like billionaires. Every billionaire who made it without a degree their are almost 10 other Billionaires who have one.


I have to agree with the obvious. If you did not get a degree, it makes you feel better to try and convince yourself it has no value. If you cannot understand the value, you are lacking a lot of tools and skills to understand the difference between anecdotal evidence and probabilities.

If making twice as much money and being 1/3 less likely to be unemployed is of no value than neither is a degree

 

[mrsCALoki]

Somebody gets it.

This whole thread is basically MSOG trying to justify the fact he doesn't have or couldn't get a degree. It's almost unanimous with everyone who posted that he's wrong, but being a true contrarian, he doesn't listen.

That is a horrible thing to say. True but horrible. Very true. But very horrible.

 

[mrsCALoki]

Seems like you did not spend x, and it does show.

This is so humiliating! I have to agree with you.

 

[smiley1437]

like I said read a book

Reading is a necessity and a good start but it's not the same as getting an education from a professor and classroom of peers.

Think of it this way - if you were comparing two boxers of the exact same potential (let's say they're twins), which one would you put your money on?

a. the one who only practices in his basement by himself or

b. the one who has been trained by Olympic-level coach with 25 years experience and frequent sparring against strong peers?


A formal education is more like b.

 

[mrsCALoki]

Reading is a necessity and a good start but it's not the same as getting an education from a professor and classroom of peers.

Think of it this way - if you were comparing two boxers of the exact same potential (let's say they're twins), which one would you put your money on?

a. the one who only practices in his basement by himself or

b. the one who has been trained by Olympic-level coach with 25 years experience and frequent sparring against strong peers?


A formal education is more like b.

I like your parallel. I think one of the most valuable parts of an education is being forced to right hundreds of papers and having not only your preconceived ideas questioned but your ability to sift a fact from an opinion and being able to justify your position. Can you imagine any one who had actually had a paper graded with an F a few times for just deciding something was true not having learned their lesson? Sparring is almost exactly what writing papers is about

 

[rex_baner]

Isn't this mainly true for those who get degrees in idk... art history or anyhting like that? What about those of us who study engineering? Our sector doesn;t seem as bad

 

[mrsCALoki]

Isn't this mainly true for those who get degrees in idk... art history or anyhting like that? What about those of us who study engineering? Our sector doesn;t seem as bad

Well on average, ANY degree increases your income and reduces your chance of being unemployed. So I am not certain I understand your point???? You techi guys also make more etc with degree. Maybe even better than other degreed people.

 

[fuji]

Well on average, ANY degree increases your income and reduces your chance of being unemployed. So I am not certain I understand your point???? You techi guys also make more etc with degree. Maybe even better than other degreed people.

In the case of degrees like art history or women's studies I think what is going on is that if your family is well off enough that you can waste four years on something that frivolous then they probably also have the means and connections to help you find a job when you are ready to grow up.

 

[legmann]

Well on average, ANY degree increases your income and reduces your chance of being unemployed.

Agreed, but in general I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to study the humanities or pure liberal arts today; the return on investment post-grad is just far too low if not uncertain. Some exposure in those areas is desirable and encouraged, but to do an entire degree is no longer worthwhile.

 

[mrsCALoki]

Agreed, but in general I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to study the humanities or pure liberal arts today; the return on investment post-grad is just far too low if not uncertain. Some exposure in those areas is desirable and encouraged, but to do an entire degree is no longer worthwhile.

I guess so, some people seem to think it rounds people out and is a great entry into an MBA etc. I met one rather young executive and he got the job because he studied several languages and cultures at university and topped it off with an MBA. He made a compelling argument for liberal arts.