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Chrysler CAW Negotiations

JohnLarue

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Jan 19, 2005
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Rockslinger said:
It's the principle that matters. If they feel they are worth $75 an hour (or $20 a song), they should adhere to their principle and not take one cent less.

That is hardly a fair comparison
If the dancer does not merit the $20 / song, she will not get dances.
Very quickly she have to either
a) Change her price per song to what the market will pay (maybe $15 maybe $10)
b) Get some surgery
c) find a new line of work

If a union member does not merit the $75 / hr, he still collects the wage with the threat of a strike to back him up. He watches as his employer slowly drifts into bankruptcy until a crisis happens.
Then he
a) expects the average taxpayer making far less than $75 / hr to subsidize him for a while
b) When that comes to an abrupt end (which it will) he will blame everyone & anyone without acknowledging he & his union have killed the golden goose.

Permanent loss of employment is a pretty step price to pay for sticking to their principles
Given the job opportunities for someone with no transferable skills one would think he would be far more flexible writ his principals. If not for his own preservation then perhaps for his family.

Laying blame # the feet of management or the government might make him feel better (the management has not been stellar & the govts have done far more than they should have), but you can not pay the bills with that.
 

Donny

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Oct 22, 2006
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Once again people are missing the point here...

What the union had negotiated for GM is on par with wages in the U.S. The auto workers in canada are making no more or no less then the U.A.W workers.
What the general public doesn't know is that last week Chrysler was playing the U.A.W against the C.A.W seeing who would give up more, thats why the deal did bot go through.

Chrysler can stand by itself alone regardless what the goverment says. Tommy lasorda and bob nardeli both have commented that it is small enought too stand alone.

Chrysler can't make it through the end of march?? It makes me sick how people actually believe the media and their propaganda. If the cars are not selling what difference does it make where they are being built??
Is it better that the union takes a massive pay cut and nardeli walks away another 15 million dollars like he did after he destroyed home depot??

Get your facts straight people. People should be thanking the autoworkers in canada for their controbutions to society and taking the burden of supporting the economy. The goverment gets it thats why they are more then happy to LOAN, I repeat LOAN out money to the automakers.

And for the moron who was talking about just letting chrysler and the union fail, buddy the north american market is very fragile right now. You think 2 billion is too much too support the automakers? Lets see them go bankrupt and the goverment has too support all these people costing them 4 billion. Then we shall see who's the tough union basher when the middel class is going to have too pick up the slack..
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Donny said:
Once again people are missing the point here...

What the union had negotiated for GM is on par with wages in the U.S. The auto workers in canada are making no more or no less then the U.A.W workers.
What the general public doesn't know is that last week Chrysler was playing the U.A.W against the C.A.W seeing who would give up more, thats why the deal did bot go through.

Chrysler can stand by itself alone regardless what the goverment says. Tommy lasorda and bob nardeli both have commented that it is small enought too stand alone.

Chrysler can't make it through the end of march?? It makes me sick how people actually believe the media and their propaganda. If the cars are not selling what difference does it make where they are being built??
Is it better that the union takes a massive pay cut and nardeli walks away another 15 million dollars like he did after he destroyed home depot??

Get your facts straight people. People should be thanking the autoworkers in canada for their controbutions to society and taking the burden of supporting the economy. The goverment gets it thats why they are more then happy to LOAN, I repeat LOAN out money to the automakers.

And for the moron who was talking about just letting chrysler and the union fail, buddy the north american market is very fragile right now. You think 2 billion is too much too support the automakers? Lets see them go bankrupt and the goverment has too support all these people costing them 4 billion. Then we shall see who's the tough union basher when the middel class is going to have too pick up the slack..
How did Nardelli destroy Home Depot?

Guess you are a member of the CAW.
 

KBear

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It seems the government and Chrysler want the UAW labor costs to be more in line with the Japanese auto plants. Makes sense if the US automakers are going to be competitive.

Maybe the new head of GM will be work out a competitive deal with the union, or restructure the company after bankruptcy without the union.
 

elmo

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Oct 23, 2002
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Donny...I think it is you who is missing the point, specifically as it pertains to Chrysler. Chrysler represents roughly 7% of Ceberus' portfolio. The issue is using taxpayer's money to loan to a company with massive resources when it's parent won't pony up. If the parent doesn't pony up, why should the taxpayer? It's a very poor reflection on their commitment.

Secondly, it's not about having the wages of the UAW and CAW on par with each other, it's about having them on par with non-unionized workers at foreign owned companies who happen to be kicking the asses of the detroit three for the past several years. It's also about companies like GM who have fallen from roughly 50% to roughly 20% market share but not trimming their operating costs accordingly.

I appreciate that nobody in the CAw wants to give up their jobs or wages, but you also need to understand that staying the course will cause the total and complete demise of the CAW.
 

Donny

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Oct 22, 2006
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So for a company that is claiming bankruptcy for the last 6 months to have their CEO resign and take a 25 million dollar pension with him makes sense? Considering this whole collapse of gm happened under his watch.

Bob Nardelli left home depot after he sunk the company from number 1 home improvement store to number 3 and took a ridiculous multi million dollar settlement with him.

Mr kirk, trust me when i comment about these things and tell you that the companys are just trying to soak and bust the unions. There is no cost competitive advantage. If the C.A.W gave up 20 dollars and hour, it would not go too research and development or savings to the customer. It would go right into fat cats pockets.

Here is a quote from the new gm CEO..
"General Motors CEO Fritz Henderson said Tuesday a new labour contract with the Canadian Auto Workers is competitive and he hasn't yet decided whether he'll ask the union to reopen negotiations."
If a CEO from a supposed bankrupt GM is saying it's competitive why is a private company like chrysler who does not even reveal their figures saying that it's unacceptable? For all you know chrysler and cerberus can be raking big bucks and laughing all the way too the bank...
 

james t kirk

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Bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that the NA automakers - most specifically GM build Shit cars. They are terrible designs, terrible quality, terrible everything. The Japanese are light years ahead of them.

If GM and Chrysler want to survive, they need to be competative with the Japanese. That means Engineering wise and Operations wise. I have NO DOUBT that North American Engineers can keep up with the Japanese, ever surpass them, but the problem is that the Accountants are running GM and not the Engineers. The Accountants are saying that in order to just stay in business, they (GM and Chrysler) need to cut costs. The ONLY way that they can cut costs is to build a substandard product.

If the NA worker's cost per hour were more or less the same as Toyota, Nissan and Honda, one would HOPE that the product would be as good since the money saved could be pumped into building better cars.

If all GM and Chrysler want to do is lower their operating costs BUT keep the quality of the their vehicles the same, then they are surely doomed. Even if (and it's a BIG IF) GM and Chrysler were to start building far better cars (best in the world), the car buying public still won't trust them. It's been too many years of GM building shit that just falls apart day after day after day. (You get in your car and you say to the car, "please don't break down today and leave me in a lurch"). It's going to be a HUGE uphill battle for GM. (I know I'll never buy another GM again as long as I live. I don't care what they claim. I'm the text book example of all that's wrong with GM. I grew up in a GM family. Pa drove GM's. Ma drove GM's. Siblings drove hand me down GMs, and then bought their own GMs. But a funny thing happened in the 90's. The cars we were buying started falling apart and needing HUGE repairs. Plastic intake manifolds cracking, Dex cool, in car fires, water in trunk, the list was endless. My parents are gone now, but their children ALL have switched to Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, and BMW. That is the problem. GM took our loyalty for granted and built shit boxes and we all got tired of it and joined the crowd and bought imports.)

At the end of the day, GM And Chrysler need to build a better, nay, a faaarrrr faaarrrr better product. If the only way they can do that is if they cut their operating costs, then that's what they have to do.

(I surely hope, because I don't entirely disagree with you Donny, that any cost savings would simply go into the fat cat's pockets.)

I think that's the issue that Obama and Ottawa has with the current restructuring plan proposed by Chrysler and GM - it's simply more of the same and nothing will really change that much.

It's sad that the gov't has to tell them how to run their businesses, but if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes.
 

Rockslinger

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Media reports said that Chrysler Canada would have missed the March end payroll if not for the $225MM "loan" from the Canadian and Ontario governments. The CAW workers should get down on their knees and thank the Canadian taxpayers for their pay cheques (sorry to be so blunt).

I think CNN did the math and determined it is cheaper to shut down GM and Chrysler and pay each UAW worker $100,000 annually to do nothing for life than to keep GM and Chrysler alive with bail-out money. To be verified.
 

landscaper

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the companies need to wake up and smell the coffee, by companies i mean employees, managment suppliers , everybody. There will be blood on the ground when this finishes up the question is who's blood. The Caw can stand up and say no more negotiations untill they are blue in the face, take a look at the opinion polls that came out last week, the support for proping up the auto manufactureres is at about 15%. Thats less than the Bloc Quebecois's national support.

The unions and the managment are bettint the house that the politicians will not let the companies fold, the politicians want to get reelected and they do in fact read opiniopn polls.

If the governments don't get what they want they will noty give out the money. The backrupcy the follows will be brutal and quick. G.M. will be resurected as a small manufacturer, probably near the bottom in sales and capacity. Chrysler will be toast.

That is the reallity that is about to kick these people in the balls. Ford and the foriegn manufacturers will pick up the needed capacity if there is any.

Unfortunaltley the CAW the UAW and the people who depend on the auto industry are going to be screwed blued and tatooed.
 

JohnLarue

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elmo said:
Secondly, it's not about having the wages of the UAW and CAW on par with each other, it's about having them on par with non-unionized workers at foreign owned companies who happen to be kicking the asses of the detroit three for the past several years. It's also about companies like GM who have fallen from roughly 50% to roughly 20% market share but not trimming their operating costs accordingly.
QUOTE]


Its not even about having the wages on par with the non-unionized workers.
Its about having total costs which will make these companies viable in the long run so they do not have to stick their hand out again.


If that cost need to be lower than the non-union workers then it need to be lower.
If it can be higher & the owners are able to get a return then the wage can be higher.

Just to very clear, its not a simple trade off of several billion now to support an unsustainable operation vs. the UI cost.
If it is unsustainable now it will unsustainable in the future without major changes) & the government can not subsidize an industry on an ongoing basis
Who's next, the forestry industry, fishing, home builders, furniture, MPA's etc

Why is this industry so special?
 

whitmore

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Jan 19, 2006
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Rockslinger said:
Media reports said that Chrysler Canada would have missed the March end payroll if not for the $225MM "loan" from the Canadian and Ontario governments. The CAW workers should get down on their knees and thank the Canadian taxpayers for their pay cheques (sorry to be so blunt).

I think CNN did the math and determined it is cheaper to shut down GM and Chrysler and pay each UAW worker $100,000 annually to do nothing for life than to keep GM and Chrysler alive with bail-out money. To be verified.
It isn't the GM or Chrysler worker that the government is worried about. Several other companies and jobs depend on those companies. This includes trucking and parts suppliers.

Management and the unions have been sucking the companies dry without putting anything in to the product. They are now paying the price but don't want to accept it.

People need a reason to buy NA cars. More money behind their products and less for inflated salaries is the only way to survive.

The government understands this. Too the industry doesn't.
 
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