Chrysler CAW Negotiations

[Cassini]

All parties need to share the pain of restructuring this industry & unless there is unconditional co-operation it just will not work

Pain sharing and unconditional co-operation are in short supply in the auto industry. Chrysler also has a few different guns to its head. Chrysler's owners have pretty much said that either Chrysler makes a profit or it dies. They want a return on investment.

Also, it is much cheaper to move an auto-plant than one would think. Chrysler may be able to afford to move the plant, and let the Canadian operation die in bankruptcy court. In the short term, the biggest pain is supply disruptions, like if they lost an engine plant.

 

[Donny]

I understand what you are debating here but who is too blame for this mess in canada.. Not the states, canada..

It is hillarious how people actually believe the media and there own twist on things. Chrysler was the number 1 auto seller in canada for the last few months. The cars are still selling, you believe everything the media tells you?
They operate on a platform suited to a group of cars. The money they invested on the old model platform will just be used to make the new platform, i.e the new redesigned chargers and 300 plus the new 200v electric car.

So who's fault is it for not securing our economy then?? The union? the company? all debatable but if memory serves me right i believe it was the goverment who decided to bow down the WTO and dismanteled the auto pact. Since then there has been the rise in import cars not being produced in canada hurting our economy more and more.

Like you said it can be debated till you are blue in the face as too who's fault it is that the auto companys are in this mess. But what it boils down to is this, all three entities are going to suffer. The union, The goverment and the company.
People call for the auto workers head on a platter yet they fail to realize they are supporting a fair chunk of the economy. If they lose their pay and rights the goverment will lose the money they are making from the taxation which will just mean next time around the middle class will just get a tax increase to subsidize their losses.
Goverment certainly wont lose money. The mass of sheep being lead by the media are just shooting themselves in the foot...

 

[james t kirk]

Also, it is much cheaper to move an auto-plant than one would think. Chrysler may be able to afford to move the plant, and let the Canadian operation die in bankruptcy court. In the short term, the biggest pain is supply disruptions, like if they lost an engine plant.

If anything Chrysler should move its American operations to Canada since it is far cheaper to produce cars in Canada, the labour force is better educated, productivity is higher here, AND the best part - OHIP.

 

[Rockslinger]

The contract between Ford, gm, chrysler and the union is legally obligated till 2011.

Sometimes, economic reality steps in and contracts get re-negotiated. Think this is what happen to NHL hockey players. I thought Mat Sundin took a pay cut a while back.

 

[JohnLarue]

If anything Chrysler should move its American operations to Canada since it is far cheaper to produce cars in Canada, the labour force is better educated, productivity is higher here, AND the best part - OHIP.

I would not hold your breath waiting for that to happen
Washington would never allow such a move after lending (giving) big $ to Chrysler

We are the biggest trading partner the US has, however they would throw us under the bus in a second if push comes to shove

 

[Rockslinger]

A scary thought just occurred to me. If Chrysler shuts down the Brampton plant, what will become of all the CB dancers?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The CAW economist has told the union not to budge much with Chrysler because according to his number crunching it makes no economic sense to move operations to the states.

 

[manofthehour]

I just wush that they would break the union . The CAW greed is a major reason for the mess they are in . Well that and the big 3 make shit cars that nobody wants. Let them all go under.

 

[Rockslinger]

Watching the news on TV. Chrysler is obviously "dead man walking". The CAW just doesn't get it (why am I not surprised?).

 

[Cycleguy007]

The CAW just doesn't get it.

And this comes as a surprise to you? Why?

 

[Rockslinger]

And this comes as a surprise to you? Why?

No, not a surprise but very disappointing. The CAW, like a stubborn mule, is still using 19th century negotiating tactics.

 

[james t kirk]

More Union bashing and bashing of the middle class worker over and over. You guys won't be satisified until everyone is making 2 bucks an hour (except you of course). It's just a race to the bottom.

That said, from what I have read today, the Whitehouse has rejected both Chrysler and GM's proposals. They've given GM 60 more days and Chrysler 30 days that includes a coming up with a deal with Fiat orelse it's a bust.

So as far as Chrysler goes, it very well could be the end of them and any discussions that the CAW is having with them frankly is academic at this time. Even if they (Chysler and the CAW) were to come up with some land breaking deal where the Union agreed to cut costs by 20 bucks an hour it would not matter anyway as the whole thing is dependent on the Obama administration forking over billions which they (Obaman and co.) are not willing to do at this time.

 

[Rockslinger]

More Union bashing and bashing of the middle class worker over and over. You guys won't be satisified until everyone is making 2 bucks an hour (except you of course).

I can't speak for everyone but I only bash people (AIG traders, Wall Street investment bankers, Connie Black, Peter Puck, Garth, etc.) who deserve to be bashed even if they live on the Bridal Path, Rosedale, Greenwich Conn, and other rich people enclaves.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I've got a feeling Chrysler is going to be scuttled and sunk at the end of March.

This Fiat "white knight" thing that is supposed to rescue them is just too little too late and anyway the Obama administration has concluded that Chrysler is not viable as a stand alone operation.

First of all from the estimates I've read it would take at least till around Oct 2011 for Fiat rebadged products to start showing up in Chrysler showrooms and there is a history in N.A. car industry of re badged cars not being embraced by consumers all that warmly.

So, that's 30 months of getting by on a product line up that consumers don't seem to want unless Chrysler is practically giving them away with huge incentives. That means 30 months of Chrysler constantly putting their hands out and asking for more government money.

To me this Fiat thing is just a trojan horse to distract people and Obama administration from the reality that Chrysler right here, right now, is a failed company and the economy is better served if resources are allocated to companies that know what they are doing.
It's bad policy to endlessly prop up and support companies that don't have what it takes to compete in the arena anymore. That's not a knock against the people who work there it's just the reality of the situation.

 

[Rockslinger]

I've got a feeling Chrysler is going to be scuttled and sunk at the end of March.

This Fiat "white knight" thing that is supposed to rescue them is just too little too late

1) Why doesn't the CAW buy Chrysler? (Paper mill workers have done that with paper mills.)
2) Fiat will not buy Chrysler now. If they wait, they can pick up the Chrysler corpus at a bankruptcy price (read distressed price).

 

[james t kirk]

I've got a feeling Chrysler is going to be scuttled and sunk at the end of March.

This Fiat "white knight" thing that is supposed to rescue them is just too little too late and anyway the Obama administration has concluded that Chrysler is not viable as a stand alone operation.

First of all from the estimates I've read it would take at least till around Oct 2011 for Fiat rebadged products to start showing up in Chrysler showrooms and there is a history in N.A. car industry of re badged cars not being embraced by consumers all that warmly.

So, that's 30 months of getting by on a product line up that consumers don't seem to want unless Chrysler is practically giving them away with huge incentives. That means 30 months of Chrysler constantly putting their hands out and asking for more government money.

To me this Fiat thing is just a trojan horse to distract people and Obama administration from the reality that Chrysler right here, right now, is a failed company and the economy is better served if resources are allocated to companies that know what they are doing.
It's bad policy to endlessly prop up and support companies that don't have what it takes to compete in the arena anymore. That's not a knock against the people who work there it's just the reality of the situation.

I agree.

In the end, there are too many car companies producing too many cars for too few buyers. There needs to be a consolidation and rationalization in the industry and I think that Chrysler is going to lead the way in that regard.

Not even the mighty Daimler Benz could turn them around.

Frank Stronach must be counting his blessings that he lost out to Cerberus when Chrysler was sold off a few years ago.

 

[alexmst]

What I'm reading in Obama's announcement is that he wants the unions at GM and Chrysler to accept the same hourly wages as are paid to U.S. workers at Toyota plants. The threat mentioned by Obama of using the bankruptcy option as part of the furture success of the company (GM) is basically saying doing so will allow the scrapping of all union agreements and a drastic redesign of wages and pension benefits to competitive levels, both legacy and going forward.

 

[JEFF247]

I wish he would have just let them reorganize under bankruptcy. Government giving business advise is like Octo Mom giving family advise.

 

[landscaper]

I wish he would have just let them reorganize under bankruptcy. Government giving business advise is like Octo Mom giving family advise.

This one I have to agree with, the govt should not in normal circumstances be giving business advise. These are however not normal circumstances and everybody really, really, really, needs to get a grip on that. The US govt basically ordering Wagoneer out of his job is hint number 1.

GM and CHrysler need the money the govt the govt does ot really have but is going to give them any way. The unions need to get on board with the fact that the govt really does not want to end up with S*** all over its face and multi billion dollar problems if they give up the money and it still goes south. Politicians want to get re elected, they are in a hard place right now. If they don't give the money the jobs leave bad press, if the ydo give up the money and the jobs still leave really really bad press.

So from a politicians point of view the only solution is to make sure that when the ygive up the money they make sure that the company survives.

UNION , MANAGMENT please take note, they will pull the plug if you don't have a very good plan, that means everybody comes to the bargaining table and evewrybody bleeds. Would you rather have a job that pays less than you make now bit still a good deal more than most other people hope to make , or would you rather be the proud possesor of a union position that will pay more if they can ever find a spot to put you.

Get it through your skulls the bell tolls for you

 

[Rockslinger]

Would you rather have a job that pays less than you make now bit still a good deal more than most other people hope to make

It's the principle that matters. If they feel they are worth $75 an hour (or $20 a song), they should adhere to their principle and not take one cent less.