Chrysler CAW Negotiations

[Rockslinger]

I know there is a thread on this issue but can't find it now. Anyway, looks like the negotiations are going down to the wire.

I am absolutely shocked that the CAW has not threatened to walk out and shut down the production line. This hard nosed tactic had worked so well for them in the past. Why won't they try it now?

 

[gww]

chrysler is already prepared to move production to alternate plants - walking out will cost them the jobs they have today.

 

[KBear]

Would be interesting to know if the government loan is to the fund that controls Chrysler, or to Chrysler. If the loan is to the fund company, then the loan would have to be paid back even if Chrysler goes under. Also, the fund company has money, so don’t know why the government is lending them money.

 

[KBear]

chrysler is already prepared to move production to alternate plants - walking out will cost them the jobs they have today.

Think Rockslinger was being facetious.

 

[Rockslinger]

If the loan is to the fund company, then the loan would have to be paid back even if Chrysler goes under.

Can't imagine the Fund Company (Blackstone?) would want to incur the liability of a huge debt. Sort of like sending good money after bad.

 

[KBear]

Maybe the fund company feels they can make Chrysler work in Canada, but only if the labor costs are competitive.

If Chrysler pulls out of Canada, what would happen to the retirees pensions?

 

[Rockslinger]

If Chrysler pulls out of Canada, what would happen to the retirees pensions?

Not sure about Chrysler but here is what happened to Nortel retirees. Contractually promised severance payments are "frozen". Contractually promised pension payments cut by 40%.

 

[james t kirk]

Hasn't the CAW bashing been beaten to death on TERB already?

Give it a rest already.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

GM is thinking of spitting itself into two companies a "Good GM" and a "Bad GM" and liquidating and bankrupting the second company.

Quote:

"One scenario that's being taken seriously goes like this: The automaker is split in two—a "good GM" consisting of the brands and operations deemed most viable, and a "bad GM" made up of the brands slated for the junk heap, a big chunk of debt, and underperforming operations. The bad GM likely would be liquidated, say several people familiar with the automaker's thinking, and the good GM would emerge fairly quickly from bankruptcy as a going concern"

"So why is GM war-gaming bankruptcy? Partly over concerns that the auto market could worsen. What's more, even if the union and bondholders were to give the automaker what it wants, GM would still need to borrow $22.5 billion to $30 billion from Treasury to survive. Add $8.4 billion in Energy Dept. loans to help GM make more fuel-efficient vehicles, and GM could end up with more than the $60 billion debt load it has now. If Treasury decides it doesn't want taxpayers paying GM's creditors, a creative bankruptcy might be the only way out".

http://www.businessweek.com/magazin...op+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+++analysis

 

[Keebler Elf]

Hasn't the CAW bashing been beaten to death on TERB already?

Give it a rest already.

Agreed. It's amazing how the blame is being shifted onto the union and away from management. Masterful propaganda victory.

 

[Rockslinger]

Agreed. It's amazing how the blame is being shifted onto the union and away from management. Masterful propaganda victory.

Does this mean that CAW workers will not walk out or threaten to walk out? There is an open letter in NOW magazine from a CAW Chrysler worker saying that if he loses his Chrysler job he will come AFTER YOUR JOB. Are you shaking in your boots?

 

[Keebler Elf]

No and No.

 

[Donny]

This is what the great media forgets to mention in all it's caw bashing.
The contract between Ford, gm, chrysler and the union is legally obligated till 2011. The union has no reason to walk out or strike they are not on a deadline here. It is the company that is opening up the contract and demanding things.

Chrysler can threaten too pull out and they have every right too if they want too, but for a company that is begging the ontario goverment for 2 billion dollar loan to pick up and abandon it's operations in canada would be ridiculous. It would cost them 5 billion in new plants, restructuring and buy out to leave canada. It would be a very stupid move on there part and it could b one of the nails hammered into the coffin of chrysler.

Personally, i think it's ridiculous to blame a global recession on auto works, especially since they are not the one who are determining what products are being made and not sold..

 

[landscaper]

Cerberous capital ownes most of Chrysler and does indeed have billions in the bank. One of the sticking points is the govts want Cerberus to guarntee a good sized hunk of the debt, the company is reluctant. The govts point out that they have the money Cerberus needs the money and the beggar generally does nto get to make the lending rules.

The CAW ran a quick deal through G.M. and is demanding that the other companies agree to teh pattern. Chrysler says it needs a lot more in consessions the union disagrees.

This is labour bargianing 101 wait tillt eh absolute last second and do it then I figure early Tuesday morning a "DEAL" will hbe announced.

The union is assuming that non of the govts involved will allow that many jobs to disappear and will pony up the money any way, I think they could be in for a surprise. If there is a need for more capacity after Chrysler goes under one of the others will step up they all have additional capacity, and from an entirley right wing point of view putting some of the capacity away would be a good thing, it would also demonstrate that the govt is not going to bend over and let taxpayers take one up the ...... well you know.

 

[james t kirk]

Frankly, the gov't should be backing the Automakers I believe.

But NOT GM and Chrysler.

The Gov't of Ontario should be backing winners - Toyota, Honda, Nissan, BMW, Ford even, etc. Companies who are going to not only survive, but ultimately grow.

GM and Chrysler are doomed. Chrysler - quite probably permanently. GM can reorganize and emerge stronger and leaner, but Chrysler - put a fork in them. Not even Daimler could turn them around.

And the fact that GM and Chrysler are doomed has more to do with bad management and bad designs than it does the CAW / UAW, though that said, they (the Unions) are not blameless either. IMHO, management is 65% responsible for this mess and the Unions 35%.

 

[sonnyboy]

Daimler made many mistakes , making bigger cars when anyone could see it was the wrong way to go. The 4 speed FWD transmissons and air conditions are the #1 reason people who keep thier cars 5 or 6 years don`t buy a Chrysler again . Just by fixing those two problems they would have better sales.

 

[JohnLarue]

It would cost them 5 billion in new plants, restructuring and buy out to leave Canada. QUOTE]


If they left Canada I would be very surprised to hear that Chrysler was building a new plant
a) They do not have the cash to invest in new plants
b) Over capacity is the root problem in the industry.They do not have the sales to support their existing plants.
The Canadian production would just be transfered to a US Assembly plant
Probably a moot point, this company is a goner

 

[Donny]

It would cost them 5 billion in new plants, restructuring and buy out to leave Canada. QUOTE]


If they left Canada I would be very surprised to hear that Chrysler was building a new plant
a) They do not have the cash to invest in new plants
b) Over capacity is the root problem in the industry.They do not have the sales to support their existing plants.
The Canadian production would just be transfered to a US Assembly plant
Probably a moot point, this company is a goner

That is my point exactly. They have already invested millions into upgrading their plants in windsor and brampton, even if they moved to the states plant they would have to reinvest into retooling the plants. Plus you got to take into consideration the fact that they will also be paying out a health care benefit in the states and our low canadian dollar makes it more profitable to do business in canada...

Hello, why do you think that there are over 6 car companies so far that have set up shop in southern ontario?? It just is alot cheaper for them to do business here and export there cars 2 hours south to the states..

 

[chiller_boy]

That is my point exactly. They have already invested millions into upgrading their plants in windsor and brampton, even if they moved to the states plant they would have to reinvest into retooling the plants. Plus you got to take into consideration the fact that they will also be paying out a health care benefit in the states and our low canadian dollar makes it more profitable to do business in canada...

Hello, why do you think that there are over 6 car companies so far that have set up shop in southern ontario?? It just is alot cheaper for them to do business here and export there cars 2 hours south to the states..

True, now. but everyone expects the US dollar to tank making it more expensive in Canada. And the health care stuff- the car manufacturers are offloading that to the unions(Ford and GM already have) so this is less of an incentive. And the retooling in canada - was this for the cars that can't sell or for new stuff?

 

[JohnLarue]

That is my point exactly. They have already invested millions into upgrading their plants in windsor and brampton, even if they moved to the states plant they would have to reinvest into retooling the plants. Plus you got to take into consideration the fact that they will also be paying out a health care benefit in the states and our low canadian dollar makes it more profitable to do business in canada...

Hello, why do you think that there are over 6 car companies so far that have set up shop in southern ontario?? It just is alot cheaper for them to do business here and export there cars 2 hours south to the states..

Hello???

The question of moving production from Canada to the States is not the make or break issue for the survival of these auto makers

They need a completely different business model, well because the old apparently does not work.

An earlier post on this thread pointed out that the union contract is valid for several years to come & the union is under no obligation to renegotiate.

This is the we vs. them approach that will ensure all jobs management & union are lost permanently.

Who is to blame (management vs. unions) has been debated here to the point of making some puke.

All parties need to share the pain of restructuring this industry & unless there is unconditional co-operation it just will not work