China as the new superpower

[Ranger68]

Sorta like they "massacred" the North Koreans and Chinese together?
Please.
The Chinese had other security concerns as well, with a HUGE portion of their army, air force, and rocket forces glued to the Soviet border, so your bleating about how the US would have wiped the floor with them if they didn't have European commitments doesn't wash.
I'll remind you that the Soviet army was badly outgunned in terms of technology for much of WWII, and though they suffered greatly all through the war, they took the final measure of their opponents. That's because it's often about sustainability and manpower as much as technology. The Chinese had the drastically superior supply situation, as well.
There is NO WAY the Americans would have been able to mount significant offensive operations into China proper at that time.
If that's what you're saying.
It would have been orders of magnitude worse than Viet Nam.
The Chinese would have fought very successful guerilla actions all over the place, and committed larger military forces where necessary.
You're just beating your chest.
That they *didn't* inflict a severe beating on the Chinese during the actual Korean War should be some evidence to you that they *couldn't*.

 

[Ranger68]

Inchon was a very risky gamble, and up until that point the American units in theatre were hard-pressed to mount any coherent defense, but nevertheless the Americans *did* deal with the North Koreans. They did NOT deal with the Chinese in the same way, and the Americans - and their allies, don't forget - we're THROWN back below the starting positions. Later, the North Koreans even managed to fully reconstitute their divisions and remount offensives.

The US *had* air power in theatre, but so did the Chinese.

China's casualty rate is very reminiscent of the Soviet Union's in WWII - a war which the Soviets won, by the way.

To say that the Americans would have won if they could have committed their entire armed forces is a total pipe dream. It didn't happen, it couldn't have happened. Who cares? Neither side could *totally* commit.

The same applies to your prediction about "blowing up China's dams". Total guesswork on your part. "If they'd done this or that or the other thing had happened." Please. Be credible.

No regards to common sense and history? LOL I'm not the one rewriting the Korean War.

Here, I'll provide a link for you:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/AMH/AMH-25.htm
I've read MANY military historians, many Americans among them, and never ONCE read any position that embraces the view that the Americans could have "wiped the floor" with the Chinese.
Clearly, this flies in the face of logic and REALITY.

On the contrary, I've read SEVERAL positions that the US landing at Inchon may very easily have turned into a disaster and the Chinese might have never even needed to intervene. The US forces in that theatre of operations were BADLY undermanned and underequipped when North Korea invaded.

Enjoy your reading.

 

[onthebottom]

You guys still re-fighting Korea LOL

Have either of you been there (Korea), unbelievable terrain, would seem to favor the horde vs. fancy technology approach.

OTB

 

[assoholic]

..exactly BbK talks in what ifs, what if this what if that.
Trueman did not want to go to War against China. Remember at the time the Chinese denied being involved. I mean every one knew they were , but they claimed it was all volunteers. By that point China could have massed huge armies.
No way Trueman wanted that.
An invasion into China itself and the Chinese would have totally mobilized.

I could be wrong, but I think about 1,000,000 Chineses soldiers served in Korea.
They could mobilize a hell of a lot more then that.
By that time Moa had organized the country he could have fielded a huge army.
Of course as well every one knows Mao was the master of Guerilla Warfare.
Make no mistake about it was not a scenario Trueman wanted to face.
MaCarthur knew it, thats why he wanted too lay a spread of Nukes all along the North Korean border with China.I'll say this, the guy thought big.

 

[islandboy]

If you don't nuke all the Chinesee you will never beat them. Thus we are engaging them economically. They have immense advantages to tap to be the a preeminent superpower economically. The contributor who said they can build cpu does not hae any idea what he is talking about. They design them and build them. What they have not done is try to mass market against established producers like Intel, That may come as IBM has sold its computer arm to China. (This is very curious as ACER from Tiwan builds most of IBM's laptops. It would seem that things like this could be a good and stablizing influence but time will tell. )

 

[WoodPeckr]

For some interesting reading look at some of the past civil wars China has gone through. They have a long history going back much further than ours. The Chinese know how to battle. There have been a couple past civil wars where they alone lost more soldiers than were lost in either WWI or WWII. Eisenhower and Truman knew this and as such wanted no part of an Asian land war with China.

 

[Manji]

well duh.....

that English general must have been a genius....

 

[Manji]

F The Chinese know how to battle. There have been a couple past civil wars where they alone lost more soldiers than were lost in either WWI or WWII. Eisenhower and Truman knew this and as such wanted no part of an Asian land war with China.

The Chinese knowing how to "battle" is debatable. The Chinese do know how to sacrifice men through the timless tactic (but highly effective if you got enough people) of the human wave.

 

[Ranger68]

Whatever it takes to win, Manji.

 

[assoholic]

...lets put it this way. The US probably would have won any large Battles, imho, but China would have under Mao would have retreated and pursued the same Guierilla tactics. Think of Vietnam x 10000 % ( slight exageration).

Neither Trueman or MaCarthur wanted that. Dont forget WW2 had taken its toll on the GI's.

There was a great show on the declassified plans for the invasion of Japan. The GI's from Europe were not too pleased at the thought of being shipped over to Asia for the invasion.

The US general population never payed a price, but it had taken its toll on the Armed Forces where it counted, the combat troops.

Its real simple, even Napoleon the Great, said, don't stir China, too big and they had a history of close to two Thousand years to being the pre-eminenet superpower in the World, at least in their minds
They knew nothing about the rise of European Military technology.
Its just in the last 300 years they have not.

 

[Peeping Tom]

Ok, how about naming one? And where can I buy it?

The contributor who said they can build cpu does not hae any idea what he is talking about. They design them and build them.

Ok - they exist only in the shadows, silly me ...

What they have not done is try to mass market against established producers like Intel

All I have seen from China is cheap copies of Allen Bradley plc's.

 

[islandboy]

Peeping Tom, I can assure you that when it comes to electroncis, if China knows what they want in chips they can do it. Right now, theyknow that they can not market against some of the consummer oriented widely established brands that are in use. Therefore they produce around them. There are types of advanced chips they design and produce, The key in keeping profits via chip production is to keep ahead of the market and therefore China.

As reagards China abilty to use men in waves to battle tjhe enemy, they have them are not letting this advantage go. They are working seriously to try to figure out how to take out our satillites but we do not believe they can do this due to digital transmission and redundancy in the system. They are hedging their bets. We are not.

 

[iam0234]

There is no question that China is an emerging power to be reckoned with, both economically and militarily. Gone are the days of ridiculing China’s bare-foot solders and human cannon balls during the Vietnam and Korean wars. Gone are the days of pushing China around as during the Opium war and WWII. Gone are the days of US battleships leisurely cruising on Chinese waters, and gone are the days of sightseeing flights of U2’s on Chinese air …. China now has the military power to protect its own sovereignty.

But to tab China as (or to be) the world’s new military SUPERPOWER (surpassing the US) is an overstatement. Make no mistake about it - no nation is remotely close to the capability of the US to invade and mass destruct, with or without nuclear weapons. While others could only dream of means to withstand US lethal attacks, when it chooses to strike, US is already chalking up a Star-War like defense system, which undoubtedly could be equally effective offensively if “justified�. This is the military parity between the US and the rest of the world.

Painting China as (or to be) the world’s new military superpower is a US media ploy to create controversy, fear and media value. It is a ploy to drum up support for embargo of arm sales to China. It illustrates US insecurity over any potential challenge to its reigning supremacy. It was the USSR not too long ago. It is now China, or any coalition of China, France, Russia or other EU members that may suggest a balance of power to the US domination.

 

[emperor]

Do you guys think they will go to war with Taiwan?

 

[Peeping Tom]

Again, just where are these chips? You simply repeat what you said before, that they exist in the shadows. They aren't in a competitive position because to compete, or not, one must actually be in said market. They aren't producing anything, period. They lack the wherewithall to sink billions and years into R&D for a marketable cpu/gpu. Look around: Intel, AMD, Nvidia, ATI ... looks like a trend to me ...

Peeping Tom, I can assure you that when it comes to electroncis, if China knows what they want in chips they can do it. Right now, theyknow that they can not market against some of the consummer oriented widely established brands that are in use. Therefore they produce around them. There are types of advanced chips they design and produce, The key in keeping profits via chip production is to keep ahead of the market and therefore China.

 

[Ranger68]

Superpower doesn't mean the world's "pre-eminent" superpower, iam.

 

[Ranger68]

Do you guys think they will go to war with Taiwan?

No, but everything the US does to distance themselves from the rest of the world and the UN increases those chances.

 

[danmand]

Do you guys think they will go to war with Taiwan?

They won't need to; It is inevitable that Taiwan eventually will become part of China, with the US agreeing.

 

[onthebottom]

They won't need to; It is inevitable that Taiwan eventually will become part of China, with the US agreeing.

I agree - it will happen when China has reformed its political system (as it has partly done economically).

OTB

 

[onthebottom]

I think Taiwan maybe a little reluctant after example of Hong Kong. While China honoured it's agreements about Hong Kong, recently it seems they tossed those agreements out the window. It will be a very hard sell to convince Taiwan to rejoin the mainland.



bbk

Hong Kong is the dress rehearsal for Taiwan, the Chinese can delay or accelerate their ultimate goal in how they treat HK. The irony is, by ingesting both HK and Taiwan China will move more to the west.....

OTB