Carlson misses simple mate

[Zoot Allures]

Magnus Carlson, greatest player ever, misses mate in 3, and so did his opponent Giri.

I would have saw it.

My theory is they are not great chess players, they are good chess players and great memorizers of chess moves. Give them chess positions that they have no frame of reference for and they become mortal

 

[Occasionally]

Chess takes skill and analysis, but I think a good portion of performance is memorization too. That's why in the first probably 10 moves or so, each player can do it in 2 seconds. Then from there it begins a thought analysis. The first set of moves by each player is basically move for move using standard attack/defence patterns most people use.

Even though tournaments have timers, casual chess fans can take forever to make moves which to me devalues the skill needed. Now if someone plays that way of super fast chess making moves in 5 seconds no matter what is still a great chess player, that shows more skill as they have little time to decide.

On the other hand, playing sports, you have no time to really decide. Everything moves in real time, so an athlete has literally fractions of a second to react. You don't sit there and get 5 minutes to decide what to do, while the opposing players stand there and wait.

Always thought of chess as "sport for the unathletic". I'd put professional chess in the same vein as pro video gamers. Although I'd argue pro gamers are more skilled because competitive gaming is real time against many opponents at once..... not 1 vs 1 in "take turns one at a time" fashion. In those video game events, people are shooting each other in teams and you have to coordinate and have millisecond reflexes.

 

[Zoot Allures]

I'd put professional chess in the same vein as pro video gamers. Although I'd argue pro gamers are more skilled because competitive gaming is real time against many opponents at once..... not 1 vs 1 in "take turns one at a time" fashion. In those video game events, people are shooting each other in teams and you have to coordinate and have millisecond reflexes.

Never tried video gaming. Is it all kill or be killed? or are there games with more sophistication?

 

[stinkynuts]

As a strong tournament player, I have to say that no matter how strong you are, you are always going to make horrendous blunders, especially under time pressure. Each games may have 40 or 50 moves. To play each move without making one mistake is almost impossible. There is always going to be a flaw, whether it's one move deep (hanging your queen, or five moves deep).

Sometimes the mistake is a very minor positional one that can cost the game in the long run.

Keep in mind, these players are playing at a level that is completely mind boggling. They have memorized the first several moves and know all the major variations. They have incredible visualisation skills and can see variations of moves, ten, twenty moves deep. They basically have a mental chessboard in their head, and can even play blindfolded. Most of the top GMs can play several blindfold games at a time.

I have been playing for many years and am probably rated around 1700 or 1800. A 200 point difference means that the higher rated player will win 75% of the games against the weaker.

1800 is considered a very strong player. Probably only around 10% of all US Chess Federation members are at this level or higher.

200 points above that is the expert level (2000)

200 points above that is the master level (less than 1% of all players) (2200)

200 points above that around where most International Masters are (stronger than regular masters) (2400)

200 points above that is where most Grandmasters are (only a few hundred players at that level) (2600)

200 points above that is where the super elite GMs and world champions are (Fischer, Kasparov, Carlson, Anand) (2800)


Anish Giri looks very good looking and sharp in that video. I've seen players at his level look like homeless guys.

This blunder is nothing compared to what some may consider the worst move by a super GM. Kramnik (a world champion) was playing a computer and missed mate in one!!


A person who plays casually for a few years, and beats all of his buddies, and is considered a pretty good player would probably be rated around 1200.

This kind of stuff just doesn't happen at that level in a standard time control game (not a blitz or fast game). It's kind of like Michael Jordan missing 100 free throws in a row.

 

[stinkynuts]

Here are the titles/ratings in order of prestige (Grandmaster is the highest):

International Titles


Grandmaster (GM)

International Master (IM)

FIDE Master (FM)

National Senior Master (SM)
e.g., USCF Senior Master--USCF 2400+

National Master (Master or NM)
e.g., USCF Master--USCF 2200+

National Expert or Candidate Master (E or CM)

e.g., USCF Expert--USCF 2000+


National US Amateur Classes

National Class A (USCF 1800- 1999)
top amateur class

National Class B (USCF 1600-1799)
above average tournament player

National Class C (USCF 1400-1599)
average tournament player

National Class D (USCF 1200-1399)
a strong social player

National Class E (USCF 1000-1199)
social/scholastic players

National Class F (USCF 800-999)
novice/scholastic players

National Class G (USCF 600-799)
beginner II/scholastic players

National Class H (USCF 400-599)
beginner I/scholastic players

National Class I (USCF 200-399)
early beginner/scholastic players

National Class J (USCF 100-199)
minimum rating

 

[lenny2]

Magnus Carlson, greatest player ever, misses mate in 3, and so did his opponent Giri.

I would have saw it.

My theory is they are not great chess players, they are good chess players and great memorizers of chess moves. Give them chess positions that they have no frame of reference for and they become mortal

Actually it's not a mate in 3.

Given a few minutes i would have probably seen the winning sequence beginning with the rook move. When i retired from tournament chess my Canadian rating was over 2000 (expert level).

Re your theory, world champions such as this guy do not get there by just being memorizers. Every game involves unique positions, "positions that they have no frame of reference for", & they seldom miss moves such as occurred here.

 

[Occasionally]

Never tried video gaming. Is it all kill or be killed? or are there games with more sophistication?

I don't play video games anymore, and when I did way back I was still bad at them.

I've seen some video game Youtube videos of teams shooting each other, and I have to say these guys are lightning quick, act as a team and try to win at all costs. Some guys stay back, some guys are rushers, some guys sacrifice themselves. Very interesting to watch.

Video games is one of those things you need at least some minimum level of hand eye coordination. I have enough to play, but am not too good at it. Give a video game controller to my mom who has trouble using a TV remote and she would have no idea what to do. She'd probably die 10,000 times before scoring one kill.

 

[Zoot Allures]

Re your theory, world champions such as this guy do not get there by just being memorizers.