Canada's birth rate is going down. The solution = more immigrants

[NotADcotor]

Why will rent control kill new apartment construction? Rent control prevents yearly unreasonable increases.

Seriously?

You can't see how price controls can lead to a reduction in the supply of a good? Never mind the staggering evidence in terms of rent control,

Rent control is not the way to increase the amount of affordable housing, nor is it a solution to poverty, inequality, or segregation. Instead, it acts to restrict the supply of housing, transferring wealth to current tenants at the expense of future and market-rate tenants. Insiders—those living in rent-protected units—generally win at the expense of outsiders. In an effort to resist gentrification, rent control leads to the decay of the buildings, as owners have less revenue to spend on maintenance and improvements.
Regulating rents, in short, does more harm than good overall.


Rent Control Makes It Harder to Find an Apartment

• Cities that implement rent control see substantial declines in the availability of rental housing.
• Locking people in to existing rental units leaves many renters in apartments much larger or much smaller than they would prefer.
• In some cities, waitlists for rent-controlled housing are decades-long.

Rent Control Does Not Increase Diversity

• Rent control benefits incumbent tenants at the expense of migrants hoping to relocate to a city. In New York City, white tenants have disproportionately benefited relative to black or Hispanic tenants, and landlords give preference to older and childless households.
• Many of rent control’s benefits typically flow to higher-income households even as rent control drives up rents for everyone else.

Rent Control Degrades the Quality of Its Beneficiaries’ Housing

• Rent control reduces investment in a property’s quality and causes a city’s housing stock to decay.
• By suppressing property values, rent control also reduces tax revenue to municipalities, hindering their ability to provide essential services.

“Next to bombing, rent control seems in many cases to be the most efficient technique so far known for destroying cities."[4] So noted the socialist economist Assar Lindbeck in 1977. In a 2012 survey of leading economists, a mere 2% thought that price controls on rent improved the availability and quality of affordable housing.[5] Then why hasn’t rent control destroyed the cities where it has been implemented? Because of the easing of these price controls since their adoption in the mid-20th century.[6] That is, until now.


Government often does things that sound like a good idea with the best of intentions but it backfires in often predictable ways if you just look into the knock on effects a bit more.
In the case of rent control people are still pushing for it when they should know better.

The weaker the rent control, the weaker the effect and the less the benefit, the stronger the rent control, the more destructive it will be. Do it hard enough and you get New York in the 70s where it was cheaper to abandon or burn down a building than continue to pay the taxes and maintenance.

 

[onthebottom]

It is supply side issues that is making housing more expensive.

Immigration is one demand factor, but even with reduced immigration Canada's housing woes will continue, given the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding zoning, permitting, taxation and what not.

7% of Vancouver City homes are vacant, 2,100 in Toronto. Not as much of an issue in Toronto but 7% in a rental market with a vacancy rate under 2% is likely having an impact.

 

[DesRicardo]

It's easy. Give generous tax breaks for having children, instead of generous social programs for having children.

"Hey babe, wanna get together and have a tax break?"

I can't see that working on the women.

Don't they already give tax incentives for children and straight cash?

Wait, don't conservative make fun of people getting assistance for children? Saying if you can't afford them don't have them?

 

[Frankfooter]

And killing new apartment construction via rent control helps how?

There are no new rental apartments being built even after DoFo killed rent control.
All that happened is rents went way, way up.

Even Montreal offered massive incentives and no rentals were built.
Developers wanna build it and sell it.

 

[squeezer]

My neighbours were new immigrants from Hong Kong, and they did not have a credit score. So they had to pay 12 months. Am not sure if it is illegal though.

It is illegal to ask for it under the Landlord and Tenant Act but because leases are hard to come by and allow Landlords to be very selective (which you have to be) prospective tenants are offering one year in advance. Moreso with immigrants because they usually do not have valid credit reports.

 

[squeezer]

There are no new rental apartments being built even after DoFo killed rent control.
All that happened is rents went way, way up.

Even Montreal offered massive incentives and no rentals were built.
Developers wanna build it and sell it.

Developers and Builders only build when there is a profit to be made. Considering the current market it's not in their best interest to build considering the cost of the build and the future sale price. This is why many are just banking the land. Dougie is going to run into a big roadblock insisting the builders build by 2025 in the Greenbelt shenanigans.

 

[Kautilya]

Seriously?

You can't see how price controls can lead to a reduction in the supply of a good? Never mind the staggering evidence in terms of rent control,

Rent control prevents rent from going up beyond a certain limit, every year. It does not prevent, the landlord from increasing rent once the existing tenant leaves, or evicting the tenant and then putting up the apartment back on the market for a higher rent at a later time. So it does not fall under price control. Also rent control isn't driving supply. Demand is. And even though we have demand, and no rent control right now, we aren't seeing adequate supply of housing, so your argument falls flat right there.

Rent Control Makes It Harder to Find an Apartment

Would you rather find an apartment that was unaffordable or would you rather build more apartments to meet the demand? In a supply side shortage market like Toronto we do need rent control. Because salaries aren't going up, it is just the rent that is going up benefitting the property owners but severely disadvantaging poorer people. Laisez Faire capitalism never benefitted anybody.

Rent Control Does Not Increase Diversity
Rent Control Degrades the Quality of Its Beneficiaries’ Housing

Diversity is not a problem to be solved by rent control. Also, in a supply side shortage and immigration market like Toronto, property values or tax revenue will never go down.

It may seem like good theory, but in practice in a place like Toronto, killing rent control is just causing more and more landlords and tenants do do illegal things like ask for 12 months rent in advance etc.

 

[jeff2]

Rent control prevents rent from going up beyond a certain limit, every year. It does not prevent, the landlord from increasing rent once the existing tenant leaves, or evicting the tenant and then putting up the apartment back on the market for a higher rent at a later time. So it does not fall under price control. Also rent control isn't driving supply. Demand is. And even though we have demand, and no rent control right now, we aren't seeing adequate supply of housing, so your argument falls flat right there.



Would you rather find an apartment that was unaffordable or would you rather build more apartments to meet the demand? In a supply side shortage market like Toronto we do need rent control. Because salaries aren't going up, it is just the rent that is going up benefitting the property owners but severely disadvantaging poorer people. Laisez Faire capitalism never benefitted anybody.



Diversity is not a problem to be solved by rent control. Also, in a supply side shortage and immigration market like Toronto, property values or tax revenue will never go down.

It may seem like good theory, but in practice in a place like Toronto, killing rent control is just causing more and more landlords and tenants do do illegal things like ask for 12 months rent in advance etc.

Besides the rent control debate, I read that decades ago when a purpose built rental building was bought and then sold, inflation was taken into consideration when paying the capital gains tax. So, if a building was bought for 500,000.00 and then sold 20 years later for 1,000,000.00, it was aknowledged that the gain was not 500,000.00 because part of that gain was inflation.
And yes, real incomes(and pension coverage) for renters grew during the post war boom years when 90% of the buildings were built in Toronto unlike the stagnation and even declines in incomes since the 1980s.

 

[Not getting younger]

It is supply side issues that is making housing more expensive.

Immigration is one demand factor, but even with reduced immigration Canada's housing woes will continue, given the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding zoning, permitting, taxation and what not.

And yet, when land is freed up, in a manner that might reduce development cost. People go ape shit…..

As is material/labour cost.

immigration Is definitely a large factor. As is the lack of infrastructure/services/amenities

and jobs

anywhere but “the centre of the universe”
It’s called diversification…look at the US. While they have many of the same/similar problems. There are all kinds of places to go for work and a place to live. This “issue” debate is redicously easy to figure out. If newly landed in Canada, where would you go..

Is it needed? Absolutely. We are getting older, birth rates down, longevity up. Speaking of which…..Boomers…need to be replaced in the economy

 

[Kautilya]

And yet, when land is freed up, in a manner that might reduce development cost. People go ape shit…..

As is material/labour cost.

immigration Is definitely a large factor. As is the lack of infrastructure/services/amenities

and jobs

anywhere but “the centre of the universe.

Is it needed? Absolutely. We are getting older, birth rates down, longevity up. Speaking of which…..Boomers…need to be replaced in the economy

The amount of inertia and inaction from the government in meeting demand and hastening housing development is stunning.

 

[Not getting younger]

Yep, but go back 10-20years. What did voters want in the GTA, especially when central Ontario/small town Ontario were getting crushed.

They certainly didn’t listen to the warnings about Boomers.

Housing has been chronically short for roughly 15 years. When did prices start taking off? Around 2008 and 2012….

Maritimes. Often referred to “welfare” bums. Central/sw Ontario where there are few jobs and little economic activity? 2011? When oil went in the tank, and the west shed a ton of jobs.

So what’s left in Canada for new immigrants..

 

[onthebottom]

Does not work from home mitigate the high prices of living in Toronto or other larger cities? Can’t you move to a smaller town and keep your Toronto income? That’s whats beginning to happen in the US, people are moving from CA and NY to lower cost markets and keeping their coastal income.

No amount of development, IMHO would make Toronto affordable for a young family, that might be the wrong place to focus if you want women to have 2-3 kids vs 0-1.

 

[Kautilya]

Does not work from home mitigate the high prices of living in Toronto or other larger cities? Can’t you move to a smaller town and keep your Toronto income? That’s whats beginning to happen in the US, people are moving from CA and NY to lower cost markets and keeping their coastal income.

No amount of development, IMHO would make Toronto affordable for a young family, that might be the wrong place to focus if you want women to have 2-3 kids vs 0-1.

The US has a lot of tier B and C cities that are completely livable. Not the case with Canada. There is nothing in these smaller towns. I was talking to stinkynuts about moving to Moncton where housing is cheaper. I WFH. But based on feedback, nope, that is just not the place to move.

 

[Not getting younger]

Does not work from home mitigate the high prices of living in Toronto or other larger cities? Can’t you move to a smaller town and keep your Toronto income? That’s whats beginning to happen in the US, people are moving from CA and NY to lower cost markets and keeping their coastal income.

No amount of development, IMHO would make Toronto affordable for a young family, that might be the wrong place to focus if you want women to have 2-3 kids vs 0-1.

Personally think the jury will be out on that for a few more years. At least right now remote work looks like it could be very bad.

Not sure anyone quite knows what the impact of Boomers leaving the workforce will have on the economy and gdp. Most seem to think a small hit….Just know certain labour markets will have shortages. If we assume 1 immigrant for 1 boomer. It’s not unreasonable to expect boomers are leaving higher paying jobs having worked their way up, and immigrants/youth will earn less. That’s less tax revenue ( plus the fact retired people spend less)…..

muniple, provincial federal debt up to the eyeballs. So less revenue, and much higher healthcare expenses as boomers get older…

remote work.
Why pay GTA salaries, why pay Canadian corporate taxes when people in “India” will do the job for less.

As employees why pay Canadian taxes, GTA cost of living when you can work remotely from sunny San Diego, Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, etc

 

[onthebottom]

Personally think the jury will be out on that for a few more years. At least right now remote work looks like it could be very bad.

Not sure anyone quite knows what the impact of Boomers leaving the workforce will have on the economy and gdp. Most seem to think a small hit….Just know certain labour markets will have shortages. If we assume 1 immigrant for 1 boomer. It’s not unreasonable to expect boomers are leaving higher paying jobs having worked their way up, and immigrants/youth will earn less. That’s less tax revenue ( plus the fact retired people spend less)…..

muniple, provincial federal debt up to the eyeballs. So less revenue, and much higher healthcare expenses as boomers get older…

remote work.
Why pay GTA salaries, why pay Canadian corporate taxes when people in “India” will do the job for less.

As employees why pay Canadian taxes, GTA cost of living when you can work remotely from sunny San Diego, Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, etc

I’ve worked remotely for 15 years, it will work out just fine for many careers. During COVID our firm had people going to their vacation homes (I’m at mine in MN right now looking at a lake) to work, some in other countries, that causes all sorts of tax and regulations.

As boomers (I’m a young one) retire they will begin taking their investments out of the market, which will constrain capital, their income and tax contributions will decrease, they will begin drawing benefits. This is the combination of impacts that make demographics so important to the future of a countries economy.

 

[DesRicardo]

As employees why pay Canadian taxes, GTA cost of living when you can work remotely from sunny San Diego, Panama, Belize, Costa Rica, etc

I believe there is a tax issue working in another country and most companies won't allow remote access like that for lower level workers for security reasons.

 

[Not getting younger]

I believe there is a tax issue working in another country and most companies won't allow remote access like that for lower level workers for security reasons.

I was able to work from home as early as 2000. One daughter, employed by a big bank on Bay Street. Working from home since the start of Covid. Why pay millions to lease a floor on Bay street….one niece in adversting. Working from South America, a friend from Costa Rica.

 

[angrymime666]

How about a national $10/day daycare plan so young families can afford to have children.

as long as Im not paying for it.

There are no new rental apartments being built even after DoFo killed rent control.
All that happened is rents went way, way up.

Even Montreal offered massive incentives and no rentals were built.
Developers wanna build it and sell it.

its not profitable to be a landlord anymore considering the cost to buy property, the return on your investment and the headaches. much easier to just invest in a reit.

 

[DesRicardo]

I was able to work from home as early as 2000. One daughter, employed by a big bank on Bay Street. Working from home since the start of Covid. Why pay millions to lease a floor on Bay street….one niece in adversting. Working from South America, a friend from Costa Rica.

Working at home is ok. Working abroad is an issue. Your friends most likely have violated a few tax codes.

 

[southpaw]

Wait, don't conservative make fun of people getting assistance for children? Saying if you can't afford them don't have them?

Tax breaks are not the same as social assistance. A tax break is a benefit to someone that's working. Social assistance is a benefit to someone that's not.

It's better to incentivize the people who will work and pay for their own children, than those who won't.

Let me put it another way. Is it better to visit an agency SP with real pics that is known to provide GFE/PSE, or a bait-and-switch operator with fake pics on LL? Which one gets your money?