Club Dynasty

Canada's birth rate is going down. The solution = more immigrants

Shannon Beth

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Aug 1, 2023
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Lol really?? That's so stupid.

Why not make effort to increase our own birth rates instead of replacing ourselves with immigrants
 
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jeff2

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2004
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It is not a long term solution as the kids of the immigrants will also have few children except of course more single mothers who work for the government.
Real estate developers will endorse you though.
 
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onthebottom

Never Been Justly Banned
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If cost of living wasn't so fucking expensive maybe Canadians would have more kids.
Ironically it’s immigration that’s making housing so expensive. Canada recieves older and wealthier immigrants than those that typically walk in or brave a trip across the Med in a sketchy boat. There are positives, bring skills and capital, and negatives, don’t work that long before they start getting benefits and sometimes they don’t stay at all just park money in real estate (Vancouver and Toronto).
 

onthebottom

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It’s inevitable with an industrialized society.
 

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Goodoer

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Feb 20, 2004
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GTA & Thereabouts...
If you're following Texas as an example, their low cost of living is a contributing factor in the rise of the multiple children families. If parents can afford it, they seem to have more kids.
 

Goodoer

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2004
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GTA & Thereabouts...
My personal opinion is that immigration can be great... It is just not done in an integrated way. Canadians and new-Canadians really know how to segregate the fuck out of ourselves. I think it was better in the 1980s.
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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It is supply side issues that is making housing more expensive.

Immigration is one demand factor, but even with reduced immigration Canada's housing woes will continue, given the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding zoning, permitting, taxation and what not.
Killing rent control makes it way harder for immigrants in Ontario.
 

Leimonis

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Feb 28, 2020
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NotADcotor

His most imperial galactic atheistic majesty.
Mar 8, 2017
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Why will rent control kill new apartment construction? Rent control prevents yearly unreasonable increases.
Seriously?

You can't see how price controls can lead to a reduction in the supply of a good? Never mind the staggering evidence in terms of rent control,

Rent control is not the way to increase the amount of affordable housing, nor is it a solution to poverty, inequality, or segregation. Instead, it acts to restrict the supply of housing, transferring wealth to current tenants at the expense of future and market-rate tenants. Insiders—those living in rent-protected units—generally win at the expense of outsiders. In an effort to resist gentrification, rent control leads to the decay of the buildings, as owners have less revenue to spend on maintenance and improvements.
Regulating rents, in short, does more harm than good overall.


Rent Control Makes It Harder to Find an Apartment
  • Cities that implement rent control see substantial declines in the availability of rental housing.
  • Locking people in to existing rental units leaves many renters in apartments much larger or much smaller than they would prefer.
  • In some cities, waitlists for rent-controlled housing are decades-long.
Rent Control Does Not Increase Diversity
  • Rent control benefits incumbent tenants at the expense of migrants hoping to relocate to a city. In New York City, white tenants have disproportionately benefited relative to black or Hispanic tenants, and landlords give preference to older and childless households.
  • Many of rent control’s benefits typically flow to higher-income households even as rent control drives up rents for everyone else.
Rent Control Degrades the Quality of Its Beneficiaries’ Housing
  • Rent control reduces investment in a property’s quality and causes a city’s housing stock to decay.
  • By suppressing property values, rent control also reduces tax revenue to municipalities, hindering their ability to provide essential services.
“Next to bombing, rent control seems in many cases to be the most efficient technique so far known for destroying cities."[4] So noted the socialist economist Assar Lindbeck in 1977. In a 2012 survey of leading economists, a mere 2% thought that price controls on rent improved the availability and quality of affordable housing.[5] Then why hasn’t rent control destroyed the cities where it has been implemented? Because of the easing of these price controls since their adoption in the mid-20th century.[6] That is, until now.


Government often does things that sound like a good idea with the best of intentions but it backfires in often predictable ways if you just look into the knock on effects a bit more.
In the case of rent control people are still pushing for it when they should know better.

The weaker the rent control, the weaker the effect and the less the benefit, the stronger the rent control, the more destructive it will be. Do it hard enough and you get New York in the 70s where it was cheaper to abandon or burn down a building than continue to pay the taxes and maintenance.

 
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onthebottom

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It is supply side issues that is making housing more expensive.

Immigration is one demand factor, but even with reduced immigration Canada's housing woes will continue, given the red tape and bureaucracy surrounding zoning, permitting, taxation and what not.
7% of Vancouver City homes are vacant, 2,100 in Toronto. Not as much of an issue in Toronto but 7% in a rental market with a vacancy rate under 2% is likely having an impact.
 

DesRicardo

aka Dick Dastardly
Dec 2, 2022
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It's easy. Give generous tax breaks for having children, instead of generous social programs for having children.
"Hey babe, wanna get together and have a tax break?"

I can't see that working on the women.

Don't they already give tax incentives for children and straight cash?

Wait, don't conservative make fun of people getting assistance for children? Saying if you can't afford them don't have them?
 
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Frankfooter

dangling member
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And killing new apartment construction via rent control helps how?
There are no new rental apartments being built even after DoFo killed rent control.
All that happened is rents went way, way up.

Even Montreal offered massive incentives and no rentals were built.
Developers wanna build it and sell it.
 
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squeezer

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Jan 8, 2010
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My neighbours were new immigrants from Hong Kong, and they did not have a credit score. So they had to pay 12 months. Am not sure if it is illegal though.
It is illegal to ask for it under the Landlord and Tenant Act but because leases are hard to come by and allow Landlords to be very selective (which you have to be) prospective tenants are offering one year in advance. Moreso with immigrants because they usually do not have valid credit reports.
 
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squeezer

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There are no new rental apartments being built even after DoFo killed rent control.
All that happened is rents went way, way up.

Even Montreal offered massive incentives and no rentals were built.
Developers wanna build it and sell it.
Developers and Builders only build when there is a profit to be made. Considering the current market it's not in their best interest to build considering the cost of the build and the future sale price. This is why many are just banking the land. Dougie is going to run into a big roadblock insisting the builders build by 2025 in the Greenbelt shenanigans.
 

jeff2

Well-known member
Sep 11, 2004
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Rent control prevents rent from going up beyond a certain limit, every year. It does not prevent, the landlord from increasing rent once the existing tenant leaves, or evicting the tenant and then putting up the apartment back on the market for a higher rent at a later time. So it does not fall under price control. Also rent control isn't driving supply. Demand is. And even though we have demand, and no rent control right now, we aren't seeing adequate supply of housing, so your argument falls flat right there.



Would you rather find an apartment that was unaffordable or would you rather build more apartments to meet the demand? In a supply side shortage market like Toronto we do need rent control. Because salaries aren't going up, it is just the rent that is going up benefitting the property owners but severely disadvantaging poorer people. Laisez Faire capitalism never benefitted anybody.



Diversity is not a problem to be solved by rent control. Also, in a supply side shortage and immigration market like Toronto, property values or tax revenue will never go down.

It may seem like good theory, but in practice in a place like Toronto, killing rent control is just causing more and more landlords and tenants do do illegal things like ask for 12 months rent in advance etc.
Besides the rent control debate, I read that decades ago when a purpose built rental building was bought and then sold, inflation was taken into consideration when paying the capital gains tax. So, if a building was bought for 500,000.00 and then sold 20 years later for 1,000,000.00, it was aknowledged that the gain was not 500,000.00 because part of that gain was inflation.
And yes, real incomes(and pension coverage) for renters grew during the post war boom years when 90% of the buildings were built in Toronto unlike the stagnation and even declines in incomes since the 1980s.
 
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