But Is It Genocide?

niniveh

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Two Israeli rights groups say their country is committing genocide in Gaza
TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Two prominent Israeli rights groups on Monday said their country is committing genocide in Gaza, the first time that local Jewish-led organizations have made such accusations against Israel during nearly 22 months of war.
July 28, 2025
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Two Israeli rights groups say their country is committing genocide in Gaza

Humanitarian aid is airdropped to Palestinians over Gaza City, Gaza Strip, Monday, July 28, 2025. (AP Photo/Jehad Alshrafi)


By Sam Mednick The Associated Press

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Two prominent Israeli rights groups on Monday said their country is committing genocide in Gaza, the first time that local Jewish-led organizations have made such accusations against Israel during nearly 22 months of war.
The claims by B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel add to an explosive debate over whether Israel’s military offensive in Gaza — launched in response to Hamas’ deadly Oct. 7, 2023, attack — amounts to genocide.
The Palestinians, their supporters and international human rights groups make that claim, and the International Court of Justice is hearing a genocide case filed by South Africa against Israel.



But in Israel, founded in the wake of the Holocaust, even the government’s strongest critics have largely refrained from making such accusations.
That’s because of the deep sensitivities and strong memories of the Nazi genocide of Europe’s Jews, and because many in Israel view the war in Gaza as a justified response to the deadliest attack in the country’s history and not an attempt at extermination.
Shattering a taboo in Israel
The rights groups, while prominent and respected internationally, are considered in Israel to be on the political fringe, and their views are not representative of the vast majority of Israelis. But having the allegation of genocide come from Israeli voices shatters a taboo in a society that has been reticent to criticize Israel’s conduct in Gaza.
Guy Shalev, director of Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, said the Jewish-Israeli public often dismisses accusations of genocide as antisemitic or biased against Israel.
“Perhaps human rights groups based in Israel, and coming to this conclusion, is a way to confront that accusation and get people to acknowledge the reality,” he said.
Israel asserts that it is fighting an existential war and abides by international law. It has rejected genocide allegations as antisemitic.


It is challenging such allegations at the International Court of Justice, and it has rejected the International Criminal Court’s allegations that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Yoav Gallant committed war crimes in Gaza. Both face international arrest warrants.
Israel’s government on Monday didn’t immediately comment on the reports by B’Tselem and PHRI. Israeli officials largely blame civilian deaths in Gaza on Hamas, saying it uses civilians as shields by embedding militants in residential areas.
The reports echo international claims
The rights groups, in separate reports released jointly, said Israel’s policies in Gaza, statements by senior officials about its goals there and the systematic dismantling of the territory’s health system contributed to their conclusion of genocide.
Their claims echoed those of previous reports from international rights groups like Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International.
Like other rights groups, B’Tselem and Physicians for Human Rights-Israel have not been allowed into Gaza during the war. Their reports are based on testimonies, documents, eyewitnesses and consultations with legal experts.
Hamas’ attack on Israel that started the war sparked a shift in the country’s policy toward Palestinians in Gaza from “repression and control to destruction and annihilation,” B’Tselem said.


The group has long been outspoken about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians. It halted cooperation with the military nearly a decade ago, saying the army’s investigations into wrongdoing weren’t serious, and it has accused Israel of being an apartheid state.
The PHRI report was a detailed, legal-medical analysis focusing on what it called the step-by-step dismantling of Gaza’s health and life-sustaining systems including electricity, clean water and access to food.
Its report says Israel has committed three of the acts of genocide defined by international law, including “deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”
The Israeli rights groups said repeated statements by Israeli officials and the military endorsing the total destruction, starvation and permanent displacement of Palestinians in Gaza, combined with policies on the ground, have demonstrated that Israel is intentionally trying to destroy Palestinian society.
A ‘painful’ conclusion
The term “genocide” strikes a chord in Israel, where Israelis grow up learning about the Holocaust and hearing survivors’ harrowing stories, while promising it would never happen again.
The 1948 Convention of the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide was drawn up in the aftermath of World War II and the murder by Nazi Germany of 6 million Jews. It defines genocide as acts “committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.”


“As the grandson of a Holocaust survivor, it’s very painful for me to be reaching this conclusion,” said Shalev from PHRI. But after growing up in a society where the Holocaust was so important, it demands some kind of responsibility, he said.
Until now, Israeli criticism of the war in Gaza has been focused on Netanyahu and whether his wartime decision-making has been politically motivated and delayed the return of hostages — 50 of them still in Gaza.
Broader scrutiny of Israel’s conduct in Gaza has been limited for multiple reasons. Despite the vast destruction and death in the territory and Israel’s growing international isolation, most Israelis have believed for much of the war in its righteousness.
And with most Jewish Israelis serving in the army, it’s difficult for most people to fathom that their relatives in uniform could be carrying out genocide. Some soldiers, however, have refused to fight in the war.
Jeffrey Herf, a historian who has published much on antisemitism, said the allegation of genocide doesn’t take into account that there is a war between two parties. He said it ignores Hamas as a military force and Israel’s right to defend itself.
Israelis’ focus is on the hostages, not Palestinians
After groups like B’Tselem in recent years accused Israel of apartheid, more mainstream voices in Israel also picked up the claim, although in less sweeping ways.


Israeli historian Tom Segev said he’s not sure the new reports and their allegations will have an impact on the public.
“The major thing for Israelis is a question of the hostages, not necessarily the fate of the population in Gaza,” he said. But he said what’s happening in Gaza is undermining the ideological and moral justification for the existence of Israel.

The rights groups said the international community hasn’t done enough to protect Palestinians and are calling on the world, including Israelis who have stayed silent, to speak up.
“We have an obligation to do everything we can to speak the truth about this, to stand by the victims,” said Sarit Michaeli, the international director for B’Tselem.
 

Shaquille Oatmeal

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Bullshit.
I have found it is a waste of energy engaging with certain people on this board, on this subject because they wouldn't admit to it if it happened right in front of them or would actively support one.
In any case, it is increasingly looking like Israel is infact engaged in activities that could be interpreted as genocide.
I say interpreted as no formal judgement has been made on that account.
However, Netanyahu has taken this too far and it is clear now that what he really wants is an empty Gaza.
He may or may not want to kill everyone there but he clearly means to drive them all out especially considering his press conference with Trump earlier this year.
 

Frankfooter

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I have found it is a waste of energy engaging with certain people on this board, on this subject because they wouldn't admit to it if it happened right in front of them or would actively support one.
In any case, it is increasingly looking like Israel is infact engaged in activities that could be interpreted as genocide.
I say interpreted as no formal judgement has been made on that account.
However, Netanyahu has taken this too far and it is clear now that what he really wants is an empty Gaza.
He may or may not want to kill everyone there but he clearly means to drive them all out especially considering his press conference with Trump earlier this year.
There are already multiple reports out calling it genocide and we are in the second attempt at Israeli instituted famine.
Its as clear a case of genocide as I hope we ever see again.

From intent, policy, public statements and evidence its very clear.
 
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richaceg

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Tell those protesters to spend a week in West Bank, without any Israel Gov't support...They will find out what genocide really is.
 

niniveh

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Israeli Human Rights Group Says Israel Is Committing Genocide. Why Did It Take 22 Months?
There’s a lot B'Tselem gets right in its report, but some other parts deserve closer scrutiny, Diana Buttu writes.
Diana Buttu
Jul 28, 2025
∙ Paid




Hundreds of Palestinians carry sacks of flour distributed from aid trucks in the coastal Zikim area of northern Gaza, as they walk under harsh conditions on July 27, 2025. Photo by Khames Alrefi/Anadolu via Getty Images
Genocide. This is what the Israeli human rights group, B’Tselem, has finally determined that Israel is carrying out against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
This determination comes after nearly 22 months in which we have witnessed Israel incessantly bomb the entirety of the Gaza Strip; kill at least 60,000 Palestinians, systematically decimate Palestinian housing and infrastructure, including the Palestinian healthcare, education, water, sewage and electricity systems; launch unprecedented attacks on journalists and first aid responders; and, of course, deliberately and repeatedly forcibly displace and starve the vast majority of Gaza Strip Palestinians, the latter while engaging in deadly target practice against desperate people seeking food. We have seen Palestinian children decapitated; Gaza becoming home to the largest number of child amputees in the world; kindergartens bombed; bodies incinerated. We have heard children’s pleas for help, for their dead parents, and for food. We have heard the statements by Israeli leaders of nearly all political stripes and in virtually all positions of power calling for mass killing and ethnic cleansing.
Yes, this is genocide – one does not need to be a legal scholar to know this. But, to be clear, Palestinian legal scholars and NGOs (like PCHR) have labeled it genocide from the start.
 

niniveh

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Trump says he does not endorse Netanyahu’s claim there is no starvation in Gaza
US president says he has told Israel ‘maybe they have to do it a different way’ before bilateral talks with Keir Starmer


Eleni Courea Political correspondent in Turnberry
Mon 28 Jul 2025 13.54 BST
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Donald Trump has said he believes there is a famine in Gaza and he has told Israel that “maybe they have to do it in a different way”.
Speaking outside his hotel in Turnberry, South Ayrshire, on Monday, the US president said people in Gaza needed “to get food and safety right now” and that he wanted to get ceasefire talks restarted.

Asked if he agreed with the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, who said earlier on Monday that there was no starvation in Gaza, Trump replied: “I don’t know. Based on television, I would say not particularly, because those children look very hungry. We’re giving a lot of money and a lot of food and other nations are now stepping up.”

Gaunt-looking Palestinians carry bags of flour from a food distribution point
How will Israel’s ‘humanitarian pauses’ affect Gaza’s starvation crisis?
Read more

Asked if Israel had done all it could to avoid civilian casualties, Trump said: “Nobody’s done anything great over there. The whole place is a mess … I told Israel maybe they have to do it a different way.”
Speaking alongside Trump, Keir Starmer said the events in Gaza were a “real humanitarian crisis” and “people in Britain are revolted at what they’re seeing on their screens”.
The US president said he did not believe Hamas would release the remaining Israeli hostages it was holding and that the US had “given a lot of money to Gaza for food and everything else, a lot of that money is stolen by Hamas and a lot of that food is stolen”.
Asked about the UK government’s commitment to recognising a Palestinian state, Trump said: “I’m not going to take a position, I don’t mind him [the prime minister] taking a position. I’m looking for getting people fed right now.”
Trump and Starmer were speaking outside the Trump Turnberry hotel and golf resort where they were due to hold a bilateral meeting on Monday.
The crisis in Gaza is top of the prime minister’s agenda in his talks with the US president. Downing Street indicated ahead of the meeting that Starmer would press Trump to take a tougher stance towards Israel and push for ceasefire talks to resume.
The prime minister will hold an emergency cabinet meeting later this week to discuss the crisis amid international horror at the images of starvation in Gaza.

Starmer is under pressure from senior members of his cabinet and over a third of his MPs to immediately recognise a Palestinian state. David Lammy, the foreign secretary, is expected to attend a UN conference in New York this week being held to discuss a pathway towards this.

Trump also suggested he would reduce the 50-day deadline for Russia to agree to a ceasefire with Ukraine before he imposed punishing tariffs, telling reporters he was “very disappointed” with Vladimir Putin.

He said: “We thought we had that settled numerous times, and then President Putin goes out and starts launching rockets into some city like Kyiv and kills a lot of people in a nursing home or whatever.
“You have bodies lying all over the street, and I say that’s not the way to do it. So we’ll see what happens with that.”
He added: “We’re going to have to look and I’m going to reduce that 50 days that I gave him to a lesser number, because I think I already know the answer, what’s going to happen.”
 

niniveh

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Then Of Course There's Bret Stephens Of NYT


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July 25, 2025The New York Times’ Bret Stephens, Genocide Denier
Will Solomon

Bret Stephens speaking at the 92nd Street Y, YouTube screenshot.
In a July 22 essay that is extraordinary even for someone as morally odious as he is, The New York Times columnist and Israeli propagandist Bret Stephens writes that Israel is not committing genocide in Gaza. His reasoning? Israel has the capacity to efficiently kill way more people than it has—if it wanted to.
You might call this an exercise in gaslighting if Bret weren’t sufficiently ideologically committed to plausibly believe this bullshit. The essay is, ostensibly, like much of what he has penned in recent years, a response to the increasing disgust toward and isolation of Israel internationally, and to the immediate reality of mass starvation in Gaza. It also comes only days after prominent Israeli-American genocide scholar Omer Bartov penned a long essay in the same opinion section, systematically explaining why Israel is in fact committing genocide; it also comes as over one hundred aid organizations issued a joint statement about Israel’s starvation campaign. Should we assume that Bret, a pathological Israeli devotee, is somehow more credible here?
Bret Stephens has one overarching goal in his writing, which I have described elsewhere: defend Israel. At various times this involves demonization of Israel’s enemies, obfuscation of Israeli crimes, endorsement of Israeli “successes,” false equivalences between Israel and other states, and maybe his favorite tactic, baseless and borderline defamatory accusations of antisemitism against Israel’s (or his) critics.
There’s much to pick apart in this offensive and essentially incoherent essay, as in everything he writes, but a few brief points. One: Bret demands to know why the death count isn’t higher. Cute question, but it is. Over six months ago the British medical journal The Lancet published a study estimating the death count was 40 percent higher than what was recorded at the time—which would put the number of dead at the start of this year around 64,000 people, higher than what it “officially” is now. But even this is probably nowhere near the actual toll, as The Lancet also published a correspondence one year ago estimating a death toll near 200,000. Earlier this year Ralph Nader plausibly estimated the death toll at over 400,000. The Gaza Strip has been completely destroyed; “conservative” couldn’t begin to describe the scale of the undercount.
Two: Bret complains that people accusing Israel of genocide are making a comparison to Nazi Germany, which, to his mind, apparently adopting the tactic perfected by Elie Wiesel of effectively situating the Holocaust outside of history, is inexcusable. Never mind that this mythical view of the past, at the core of Israel’s self-justification today, is entirely ahistorical: Zionism has always been closely linked to the European nationalisms that coalesced into fascism. The comparison is, in fact, the necessary one. How can anyone today ignore the horrific closeness between the enforced starvation and wanton murder in Gaza—including the specific aim of concentrating Gazans into a so-called “humanitarian city”—and the Nazi death camps?
Three: Bret’s desperation suggests he is going through something many devout supporters of Israel are going through. He apparently finds it intolerable not only that he cannot be outwardly pro-Israel—as if he’s entitled not just to giving that support but to widespread acceptance of that support—but also that the general population might turn of its own volition against an avowedly supremacist and actively genocidal state. Would we consider open support for South African apartheid in 1980 socially acceptable? One difference here is the situation in Palestine today is worse. Bret may be entitled to his reprehensible views, but he cannot demand others share them, endorse his delusions about Israel, or accept the open extermination campaign that underpins his worldview.
At the end of the essay, he writes the following: “The war in Gaza should be brought to an end in a way that ensures it is never repeated. To call it a genocide does nothing to advance that aim, except to dilute the meaning of a word we cannot afford to cheapen.” If the Israelis get their way, it will be brought to an end in a manner that ensures it’s never repeated: through extermination and ethnic cleansing. This is not a war in any meaningful sense. Calling it a genocide is not only the bare linguistic minimum this mass slaughter deserves, but, if this is a word “we cannot afford to cheapen,” absolutely necessary.
 

seanzo

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Zionism has one goal. To establish a jewish ethnostate from the Nile to the Euphrates, this includes all of Egypt east of the Nile, all of Lebanon and Jordan, Syria and Iraq west of the Euphrates, also including parts of Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. What's happening to the Palestinians is just the beginning and frankly after the whole Iran Israel debacle I don't see the Muslims getting their shit together to stop it. So that begs the question, is the rest of the world going to stop Israeli machinations or will they stand by idle out of fear of being called an anti semite or some other trite thing? If we're to rank genocides/ethnic cleansings that have happened in the past what is going on now in Palestine would stand as being just as bad as the Holocaust, if not worse.
 
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