Bush
- Thread starter screwge
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The chances of dying from the flu are a lot less than from cancer or an immune disease.harleycharley said:meanwhlie you've got americans coming to canada for something as simple as a flu shot...... lol.
great system the US has!!!
While the system in the uSA leaves a lot of room for improvement, so does the Canadian.
And Bush is sure getting the job done there <rolling eyes>.papasmerf said:Best way to ensure helhcare coverage is with good paying jobs.
Maybe this is naive, but if those 40 million all were able to start contributing to the healthcare pool, even if it had to be with the help of taxpayer contributions, rates should go down for everybody else.langeweile said:The latest number is at 40 Million
Everyone insured, lower rates per person......sounds like a winner.
US heath care is the most expensive in the world: something like 15% of GDP; in Canada its 8% and European countries are lower. We cover everyone; as noted 20% of US population is not covered at all.
In Canada it is your doctor who decides what treatments need and can have; in the US, a doctor has an insurance agent looking over his/her shoulder challenging the doctor on a cost basis. Profit is the motive in US; quality service in Canada.
All health care systems have problems. Canada's needs better management right now. Tommy Douglas who brought Healthcare to Canada first in the Province of Sask did so while balancing the budget for 17 consecutive years.
Americans who diss the Canadian system don't know what they're talking about. Governement enables and pays for health care but it is at the doctor and the patient where the rubber hits the road.
In Canada it is your doctor who decides what treatments need and can have; in the US, a doctor has an insurance agent looking over his/her shoulder challenging the doctor on a cost basis. Profit is the motive in US; quality service in Canada.
All health care systems have problems. Canada's needs better management right now. Tommy Douglas who brought Healthcare to Canada first in the Province of Sask did so while balancing the budget for 17 consecutive years.
Americans who diss the Canadian system don't know what they're talking about. Governement enables and pays for health care but it is at the doctor and the patient where the rubber hits the road.
langeweile said:The latest number is at 40 Million [/QUOTE
The latest number is 45 Million in the USA have no healthcare insurance, 40 Million was the number at the start of Dubya's term.
screwge said:Ickabod
Read Astrix above
My post was directed to papasmerf, I don't think it needed to be explained to Ickabod.
And, that's Asterix.
You will get no arguement from me,that health care coverage is outragous in cost. The Insurece companies blame it on the high cost of drugs. Some other blame it on the lawyers and the huge settlements given out. I would like to see oversight in this issue. But I do not think the Feds is the place to do that. I know NYS insurence review process is staffed by insiders, and that does not work. Prehaps a board of elected deligates (2 year terms) comming from each district for oversight might be the answer. By making it so each comunity is represented might ensure ordinary people making it to the board.Asterix said:I assume you meant health care, not hell care.
I have a small business in the US with seven employees. My lowest paid employee makes just under double the minimum wage, my highest paid employee double that. All of them have kids, most of them more than a few, so making sure they have a living wage has been my main priority. I've looked into it, and there's no way I can offer them and their families health care without drastically reducing their wage. I actually had one employee decline a raise so that his kids could continue to receive minimal coverage in my state by the government. How sad is that.
I applaud you for trying to provide decent wages and do realize even the states small business plan for insurence is not cheap and does not offer as high a quality of care as offered by MEDICAID. That in and of itself is part of the problem. We need to solve a ton of issues before we get a handle health care costs. I know the costs of coverage and coverage at a reduced level. But I do not blame Bush for that. Nor do I blame Clinton I actualy blame the insurence board of NYS for it. Did you know that WNY pays more for INS than Rochester and Albany?
Here is a reality check for you. The rest of the world would be very happy to ave ANY of the US economic numbers. This constant whinning and crying about the economy is just media hogwash.Ickabod said:And Bush is sure getting the job done there <rolling eyes>.
Last Wednesday when the new GDP number was released it came in at 3.7% and mist the consensus by .4% and the market took a temporary dive.
The GDP throughout most of Clinton's tenure was in the low 3's with unemployment around the same it was now.Back than the media consensus was ,"this is the best 8 year economy we ever had."
It blows my mind how ignorant some people are, and how much people byuy the media crap.
Here is an election prediction for you. 6 month after Kerry is elected, the economy will be in great shape, the unemployment number will be the lowest since Clinton etc.etc.etc.
Maybe a lot of people are not as smart here than i thought.
Your comments overturn" 8 years of the greatest economy" under Clinton.bbking said:That growth rate was suppose to be 4.3 - so not as good as it should have been. The operative word is should and the drop is largely due to Bush Admin. policies. In addition unemployment claims jumped higher than expected again due to Bush Admin. policies. To show of stupid this Admin. is, the Sec. of the Treasury insists that the US economy has created 2 million jobs over the last 4 years proofing the incompetence of the Bush Admin. or at best the willingness to lie about a basic part of the economy. They really should tell that to people of Cleveland Ohio who has a 30% plus poverty rate and recently passed my hometown of Detroit.
To call the US economy good at this point means to accept a mediocre standard something that is very un-American.
bbk
His numbers with the exception of job creation are the same or below in some cases. And we all know what happened to all the jobs Clinton created....puff....this is the sound of the "high tech bubble".
Clinton was lucky he left office when the house of cards collapsed.
Mind you..I don't believe any president can take credit for the good or the bad. Business and the economy go in cycles. If your term happens to fall on a good one, you look good.
We have discussed this at length and i know you disagree with me. So let's don't go there again...Happy Halloween
because of the election, the emphasis has been on employment where there is a real distinction between the two sides.
what trumps all of this is the state of the US economy in general. The huge in-year deficits and the national debt make the US very vulnerable. Note how the US$ has dropped vs the Euro. Here in Canada, the dollar has risen from the low .60's at the beginning of W's term of office to .82 now (a rise of 35% is 4 years). Both Bush and Kerry have a huge job to keep the US from sliding, no dropping like a stone, into a deep recession. It is only consumer spending that is keeping the US economy from this eventuality.
the effort to call each other names and the call to patriotism blinds people to the downside potential of the economy. our economy in Canada will be sucked down with that of the US, so it is relevant for a Canadian to ask US friends to keep their eyes on the economic ball, whoever wins.
what trumps all of this is the state of the US economy in general. The huge in-year deficits and the national debt make the US very vulnerable. Note how the US$ has dropped vs the Euro. Here in Canada, the dollar has risen from the low .60's at the beginning of W's term of office to .82 now (a rise of 35% is 4 years). Both Bush and Kerry have a huge job to keep the US from sliding, no dropping like a stone, into a deep recession. It is only consumer spending that is keeping the US economy from this eventuality.
the effort to call each other names and the call to patriotism blinds people to the downside potential of the economy. our economy in Canada will be sucked down with that of the US, so it is relevant for a Canadian to ask US friends to keep their eyes on the economic ball, whoever wins.
Fine, then Bush can run for the President of Chad. In America we don't settle for being better than the rest of the world. We aspire to be the best we can be. See ya in my rear view mirror.langeweile said:Here is a reality check for you. The rest of the world would be very happy to ave ANY of the US economic numbers.
Ickabod: when I told you above to read Astrix, I was addressing the wrong person, I now see. It was papasmerf who needed to absorb Astrix's points. I apologize.
While I have your attention, when you say "we", does that we include the 45 million who don't have healthcare? I say this because there is no doubt that, if you're rich, the US provides the best healthcare in the world. But if you're not rich, I would submit that there are many better countries in the world for someone to live in than the US.
While I have your attention, when you say "we", does that we include the 45 million who don't have healthcare? I say this because there is no doubt that, if you're rich, the US provides the best healthcare in the world. But if you're not rich, I would submit that there are many better countries in the world for someone to live in than the US.
45 million. What is that, something like 1 in 6 Americans? Not only is this a disgrace, it is a system collapsing in on itself. How much of the increased cost is because of people with no insurance showing up at emergency rooms needing immediate care? How much is because people don't see doctors for simple preventative care, and wind up with chronic conditions? A classic vicious circle; the more uninsured the worse it will get.
Papasmerf, I directed my earlier post to you because you claimed that the solution to health care were better paying jobs. In my industry I pay my employees very well. If I had to provide health care, I could not.
Papasmerf, I directed my earlier post to you because you claimed that the solution to health care were better paying jobs. In my industry I pay my employees very well. If I had to provide health care, I could not.
No offense taken.screwge said:Ickabod: when I told you above to read Astrix, I was addressing the wrong person, I now see. It was papasmerf who needed to absorb Astrix's points. I apologize.
Well, i know that, and you know that. But the 45 million are merely at the mercy of the rest of us who don't seem to care about them.While I have your attention, when you say "we", does that we include the 45 million who don't have healthcare? I say this because there is no doubt that, if you're rich, the US provides the best healthcare in the world. But if you're not rich, I would submit that there are many better countries in the world for someone to live in than the US.
I find it amazing that Americans can sit in judgement of other regimes, whether they be Iraqi, North Korean, or whatever other regime that we love to denigrate. I would pull my hair out when i'd hear George Bush, Colin Powell, or any of the right wing hawks make the claim that Saddam Hussein would "spend all his money building up his military while ignoring the basic needs of his citizens." A legitimate beef with the man, of course, but one that Saddam Hussein could just as easily point out about America.
Don't forget there is an advantage to a lower dollar. it makes exports cheaper and American goods more affordable.screwge said:because of the election, the emphasis has been on employment where there is a real distinction between the two sides.
what trumps all of this is the state of the US economy in general. The huge in-year deficits and the national debt make the US very vulnerable. Note how the US$ has dropped vs the Euro. Here in Canada, the dollar has risen from the low .60's at the beginning of W's term of office to .82 now (a rise of 35% is 4 years). Both Bush and Kerry have a huge job to keep the US from sliding, no dropping like a stone, into a deep recession. It is only consumer spending that is keeping the US economy from this eventuality.
the effort to call each other names and the call to patriotism blinds people to the downside potential of the economy. our economy in Canada will be sucked down with that of the US, so it is relevant for a Canadian to ask US friends to keep their eyes on the economic ball, whoever wins.
There is a point were it becomes couner productive.. There is a dwbatte amongst the economists on when that is.
langeweile:
I think you missed my point. The rise in the Canadian dollar and the Euro among others is because the US economy is declining relative to other economies. That the US$ has dropped 35% in 4 years is a remarkable drop. When you look at the huge debt and the huge annual deficits of the US, you can only shudder and get ready for a huge recession, maybe even depression if it goes on for a while.
I think you missed my point. The rise in the Canadian dollar and the Euro among others is because the US economy is declining relative to other economies. That the US$ has dropped 35% in 4 years is a remarkable drop. When you look at the huge debt and the huge annual deficits of the US, you can only shudder and get ready for a huge recession, maybe even depression if it goes on for a while.
Is there currently a country that is any better off, with the exception of China. We just came out of a world recession. Japan is still in the dumpster.bbking said:I think a depression might be a bit much, but the US economy is not doing as well as the Cement Heads in the Bush Administration seem to think it is nor is it as bad as the nah sayers say it is. The main reason for the rise of the CDN dollar in relationship to the US dollar is the narrowing of spreads between US and CDN interest rates, something that will be corrected when the US Fed resumes raising rates after the election season is over.
bbk
This may be a little different than normal paying jobs.What do you pay a gal per hour?Asterix said:45 million. What is that, something like 1 in 6 Americans? Not only is this a disgrace, it is a system collapsing in on itself. How much of the increased cost is because of people with no insurance showing up at emergency rooms needing immediate care? How much is because people don't see doctors for simple preventative care, and wind up with chronic conditions? A classic vicious circle; the more uninsured the worse it will get.
Papasmerf, I directed my earlier post to you because you claimed that the solution to health care were better paying jobs. In my industry I pay my employees very well. If I had to provide health care, I could not.
