Bitcoin

[Insidious Von]

The price is too rich for my blood at the moment.

I did start investing in Roman coins, go with what you know. On a trip to NYC in 2014, I bought three Aurelian coins and paid $540.00. I figured that the internet was becoming rapidly more sophisticated, making it easier for people to find out about him. The demand would go up.

 

[malata]

me kissed bitcoin and i liked it

 

[hoorawr]

People need to understand it is a digital commodity and not currency.

Has it never been compromised? I haven't looked into that. I know there has been lots of bitcoin theft but that always seemed to be more people being stupid about their wallets.

Correct. It has never been penetrated. The bitcoin network is to-date the safest designed network infrastructure in the world...

The “hacks” you see are exchanges and people’s wallets being compromised.. which is typically their own fault. But the BTC network, never, since inception, has a transaction been hacked.

It’s fascinatig when you think about, considering that even CIA firewalls have been penetrated by other countries and vice versa. This is why the bitcoin network is so valuable, it’s a genius invention

 

[luvyeah]

What defines a currency and why is bitcoin not considered a currency?
Some people accept it for goods and services and even some merchants have adopted it, to me that would mean it's a currency.

Who Accepts Bitcoin in 2024? List of 20+ Major Companies

Who accepts Bitcoin? A list of the biggest names accepting Bitcoin as a currency. From Microsoft to Expedia. Where can you spend Bitcoin?

99bitcoins.com

 

[explorerzip]

Lots of people invest in gold. It's perfectly fine. Same with bitcoin and other cybercurrencies - they are fine as commodities.
But gold, like bitcoin, attracts lots of nonsense mythology about it. People who hoard gold because fiat currency is "fake" or "controlled by the (((globalists))) -- wink wink -- and so on.

Ignore the people talking about bitcoin as some kind of massive disruption of the money system that banks and governments are afraid of and ushering in the blockchain revolution and so on.
Think of it as a commodity that people invest in and can go up and down and decide if it is somewhere to park some money.

I think the key to investing in anything: real estate, stocks, gold or crypto is how much weight you should have in it. Nothing wrong with investing a percentage of your portfolio into these things, but it should never take over the whole thing. You're asking for trouble if you put a big chunk or all of your portfolio into these investments and hope you become a multi-millionaire. There will always be early adopters that will make money on them, but there's a higher chance of getting burned the later you jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Valcazar]

Correct. It has never been penetrated. The bitcoin network is to-date the safest designed network infrastructure in the world...

That's a hell of a claim and one I will need to go see about with some security people.

The “hacks” you see are exchanges and people’s wallets being compromised.. which is typically their own fault. But the BTC network, never, since inception, has a transaction been hacked.

I'm not actually sure what you even mean here. What do you mean by the "BTC network" in this case?
If you just mean that the distributed ledger has not been successfully hacked, then yes, that's my understanding. (And given Bitcoin's size, this would be increasingly hard to do.)

It’s fascinatig when you think about, considering that even CIA firewalls have been penetrated by other countries and vice versa. This is why the bitcoin network is so valuable, it’s a genius invention

Those things aren't remotely alike, though. Part of the bitcoin robustness is that it is public and distributed.
It's not a firewall issue or anything like that.

 

[explorerzip]

Correct. It has never been penetrated. The bitcoin network is to-date the safest designed network infrastructure in the world...

The “hacks” you see are exchanges and people’s wallets being compromised.. which is typically their own fault. But the BTC network, never, since inception, has a transaction been hacked.

It’s fascinatig when you think about, considering that even CIA firewalls have been penetrated by other countries and vice versa. This is why the bitcoin network is so valuable, it’s a genius invention

That doesn't mean that the network can never be penetrated. Any invention made by human hands can be undone by those same hands given enough time and effort. That's obviously not a reason not to use or invest it it because our money system is just as vulnerable (if not more) to hacking or social engineering attacks.

 

[Valcazar]

What defines a currency and why is bitcoin not considered a currency?
Some people accept it for goods and services and even some merchants have adopted it, to me that would mean it's a currency.

It can be used as a currency, anything can, really.
It's just a super shitty one because of its volatility and how slow the transactions are.

Let me put it to you this way, since we are on TERB.

Would you ever agree to pay an escort whose price was only in Bitcoin because she only used Bitcoin as a currency for these transactions?

On the 1st of November. Bitcoin was worth roughly $18,500 CDN.
Let's say an escort with some good reviews decides $370 an hour is a good price, but she believes in Bitcoin and so only takes Bitcoin for transactions.

She will charge 0.02 BTC/hour. If you booked her then, you would be paying $370/hr.

This morning that same 0.2 BTC/hour would cost you around $444/hr.
If you were paying her as I type this right now, it would cost you around $470/hr.

No one wants to use something that unstable for day to day purchases.

 

[luvyeah]

It can be used as a currency, anything can, really.
It's just a super shitty one because of its volatility and how slow the transactions are.

Let me put it to you this way, since we are on TERB.

Would you ever agree to pay an escort whose price was only in Bitcoin because she only used Bitcoin as a currency for these transactions?

On the 1st of November. Bitcoin was worth roughly $18,500 CDN.
Let's say an escort with some good reviews decides $370 an hour is a good price, but she believes in Bitcoin and so only takes Bitcoin for transactions.

She will charge 0.02 BTC/hour. If you booked her then, you would be paying $370/hr.

This morning that same 0.2 BTC/hour would cost you around $444/hr.
If you were paying her as I type this right now, it would cost you around $470/hr.

No one wants to use something that unstable for day to day purchases.

I agree, bitcoin is a slower crypto there are some that are much faster and instant.

And I see your point expressing the volatility. However, I think this would easily not be the case over time if more and more people choose to use it and there wasn't a need to convert it back and forth between USD/CAD whatever currency you use. It becomes a question of will it be adopted at the level required to make daily purchases viable without conversion.

It would certainly create a new world if something like bitcoin was adopted since there is a finite amount, and debit and credit as we know today would be much different.

What would inflation look like?
And with other coins, transactions can be obfuscated so how would governments adopt to enforce taxation?

 

[Valcazar]

I agree, bitcoin is a slower crypto there are some that are much faster and instant.

Can't comment on the speed much, but I trust you some process faster.

And I see your point expressing the volatility. However, I think this would easily not be the case over time if more and more people choose to use it and there wasn't a need to convert it back and forth between USD/CAD whatever currency you use. It becomes a question of will it be adopted at the level required to make daily purchases viable without conversion.

But why would anyone adopt it before it became a stable store of value? Especially since most people buy it for the speculation?

It would certainly create a new world if something like bitcoin was adopted since there is a finite amount, and debit and credit as we know today would be much different.

What would inflation look like?

Not really new. Like gold, it is inherently deflationary. It was designed that way on purpose because I suspect its creator was an anti-fiat money goldbug type.
Debit and credit would work much the same as they worked under the bimetallic standards of the past, I would guess.
If the base of value was bitcoins, then people would base their money standards off of bitcoin. It would have all the problems of the gold standard and people would then abandon it to go back to fiat money.

And with other coins, transactions can be obfuscated so how would governments adopt to enforce taxation?

Hiding assets from taxation is a major use of cryptocoins right now. The public ledger aspect gives some access to hunting tax evaders down.
The simplest thing to do is simply refuse to declare Bitcoin or any other such currency as legal tender to pay your taxes.
That would force people to hold money in the fiat currency.

 

[WJ49]

I don’t know about it as an investment, but it’s great for untraceable payments. Just wish that more SPs accepted it.

Cryptocurrency for Sex Workers and their Clients

An expanded guide to alleviate all your fears on using cryptocurrency!

lafemmeisobel.medium.com

 

[black booty lover]

Dude, just stay away from it. It won't end well.

 

[explorerzip]

I agree, bitcoin is a slower crypto there are some that are much faster and instant.

And I see your point expressing the volatility. However, I think this would easily not be the case over time if more and more people choose to use it and there wasn't a need to convert it back and forth between USD/CAD whatever currency you use. It becomes a question of will it be adopted at the level required to make daily purchases viable without conversion.

It would certainly create a new world if something like bitcoin was adopted since there is a finite amount, and debit and credit as we know today would be much different.

What would inflation look like?
And with other coins, transactions can be obfuscated so how would governments adopt to enforce taxation?

IMO, you would need the US at a minimum to adopt crypto in large scale to affect this kind of change. I don't see that happening in my lifetime.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history

It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen.

www.vox.com

Lots of conversations on the subject. If you look on Yahoo finance. One recurring theme is that the only way to gauge the value of Bitcoin is against ......you guessed it....Money! People are talking about how they got in and out and made huge cash profits. Of money.

 

[desert monk]

Bitcoin is the greatest scam in history

It’s a colossal pump-and-dump scheme, the likes of which the world has never seen.

www.vox.com

"Cryptocurrency is best-suited for one use: Criminal activity."

 

[black booty lover]

"Cryptocurrency is best-suited for one use: Criminal activity."

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

[malata]

"Cryptocurrency is best-suited for one use: Criminal activity."

won't be as anonymous once the wind shifts

 

[deadpool]

Here is a tip if you don't want to get into the hassle of buying BTC and storing it in a hard wallet etc.
Go look at SilverGate Capital (NYSE:SI)
Here is some info on it:

These 2 Stocks Have Doubled and Still Have Room to Grow | The Motley Fool

Silvergate Capital and fuboTV are both rocking in 2020, and each has plenty of potential to keep going in 2021.

www.fool.com

To understand crypto or blockchain, there are plenty of videos on youtube to educate you. Don't think it makes sense for anyone to write a whole article on it in this thread.

Also keep in mind if you plan to buy BTC (Bitcoin) and hold it long term, be prepared for a lot of volatility. The current price can very well go down to 10k within a few weeks, and then take a year just to get back up to its current highs. So definitely not for the faint of heart. Long term there is a good chance it could grow to 100k if you can stomach all the ups and downs of it.

Cheers!

 

[BillyZane]

I have written a summary about cold wallets and keys for friends close to me and I will share this with you as well. The following are some general points of interests to help you understand "cold storage wallets" as well as your "keys":

1. For a lot of retail investors, there is a huge misconception in that if you decide to operate as your own bank (i.e.truly own your Bitcoin) and use a cold storage wallet device (i.e. physical hardware connected via USB to your PC), that your assets (Bitcoin) will be transferred and stored onto that physical USB device. This is the part that confuses a lot of people. In short, Bitcoin is not stored on that physical wallet device, it will never be stored on there, and this is because Bitcoin can never leave the blockchain.
2. So, what does your cold storage wallet device do? The physical device allows you to have a "key" to your asset (Bitcoin) on the blockchain. How is this "key" established? Without going too deep into the technical aspects, when you initially setup the hardware wallet device, you will be given a 24-word "seed phrase" (and it is literally 24 words). From a computer science perspective, this 24-word "seed phrase" actually represents and is transcribed into a huge series/string of alphanumeric characters. This 24-word "seed phrase" is essentially your private "keys" to your assets (Bitcoin) on the blockchain.
3. Your 24-word "seed phrase" is what is most important if you decide to act as your own bank and truly own Bitcoin since this is what gives you access to your assets. It does not matter if you lose your physical hardware device and it does not matter if your physical hardware device was destroyed physically. Why? Again, your assets are on the blockchain and not on the physical device itself. So, if you lose your physical hardware device for whatever reason, you can simply replace it with another one (and this can be one from a different manufacturer too), set it up with your original 24-word "seed phrase" and you will once again have access to your assets since they are on the blockchain. In essence, never lose your private "keys" because then you will have truly lost your Bitcoin. So, in the rare event that you got physically robbed for your physical device, your Bitcoin are still secure under the assumption that the robber never forced you to give up your private "keys". They will simply have a useless physical device without the "keys" and you can just replace your physical device.
4. As you can probably see now, your 24-word "seed phrase" is extremely important (and more important than the physical hardware device itself). Therefore, when you first take note of your 24-word "seed phrase" during the initial setup of your physical hardware device, make sure that no one is watching, there are no cameras around you (including your mobile phone), etc. Only you should know your "keys". Never type it out on any digital device, never e-mail it to yourself, never take a photo of it, never upload it to a cloud database such as Google Docs and never try to encrypt it and put it on a regular USB drive. You want this 24-word seed phrase as private as possible. So, if anyone/anything asks you for your "keys", never give it out. Period.
5. Overall, a cold storage device is always better in terms of security versus not having one at all. There are many cold storage devices out on the market and each come with different features/capabilities. With regards to the biggest manufacturers of cold storage products such as Ledger and Trezor, the difference in operational security between their hardware devices pales in comparison to having your own cold storage device versus not having one at all and then relying on a third party such as an exchange/fund/company to maintain custody of your assets like WealthSimple Crypto, ShakePay, Newton, QBTC, etc. Again, "not your keys, not your coins" and anything left on an exchange is not your asset. Get a cold storage wallet if you truly want to own the underlying asset and if you are a long-term investor with a buy-and-hold mindset.
6. So, how should you secure this 24-word seed phrase? Most people will simply advise you to write it down on a piece of paper and put that somewhere "safe" (like a safety deposit box with a bank). However, there is actually a spectrum of security methods ranging from "unsafe" to "super paranoid safe". Obviously, as you move towards the super paranoid level of "safe", the technical aspect increases which increases difficulty as well as inconvenience for the average investor. So, for an average person of average intelligence (whatever that means), that piece of paper and safety deposit box should be enough. However, I think that most people who are serious and long-term investors should store this 24-word seed phrase on a durable medium (since paper can be burned in a fire and easily damaged via alternative methods) with multiple copies in multiple "safe" locations (and for the more tech savvy folks, a multi-signature configuration too!). Regardless, every type of storage decision/method has its risk including using a bank's safety deposit box (because contents have been emptied out before by the banks in the past by mistake). So, you need to decide which method is best for you in terms of owning your asset (i.e. Bitcoin) while considering and balancing security, convenience, as well as your own personal technical capabilities, discipline, responsibility, reliability, etc. Ultimately, for some people, this will mean that they will never truly own the asset (i.e. Bitcoin) and simply leave their "asset" on an exchange platform (such as Wealthsimple Crypto, Newton, Shakepay, etc.) because cold storage is too difficult/inconvenient for them.
7. Which manufacturers of cold storage products is best? Well, they come with different features and you will need to decide which one suits your needs most. However, because the difference in having and not having a cold storage device is immense from a security perspective, a quick and dirty response would be the manufacturer who can ship it to you the fastest because it is ideal to remove your assets (i.e. Bitcoin) off an exchange as quickly as possible (at least this is how I operate and believe). Essentially, every passing year, month, week, day, hour, minute, and second where you do not truly own your asset (i.e. Bitcoin) by choosing and maintaining a cold storage wallet is a bigger risk than the previous unit of time in leaving your assets on an exchange (i.e. in custody of someone/something else). Basically, you can't go wrong with either Ledger or Trezor as well as other big brand names who have been in business for a while.

Hopefully, that has saved you some time researching, cross-referencing, and triple-checking during your due diligence process. At the minimum, it should at least provide you with a basic comprehension of the mechanics behind the wallet and key system.

Now, here are a few points which I believe will certainly be helpful to you from my perspective regarding buying this alternative asset class of Bitcoin:

1. Personally, I only buy on the Newton app since they currently have the lowest purchasing fees out of all of the available exchanges in Canada. Newton's average spread varies from 0.50% to 0.60% which is 2-3 times cheaper than most of the other available exchanges that are available to us as Canadians. I also use the ShakePay app to earn free Bitcoin on a daily basis by physically shaking my phone once a day. Trust me, I know that sounds ridiculous, stupid, and suspicious, but ShakePay is a legitimate company based out of Montréal which is regulated by both FINTRAC and AMF while it is also legally licensed as a Money Service Business. I never actually buy from ShakePay because of their high purchasing spreads (which is approximately 1.75%) and I simply use them for the free daily accumulation of Bitcoin. Anyone who uses ShakePay can attest to this and easily confirm.
2. Since I actually want to own the underlying asset, I withdraw my Bitcoin from both of those exchanges (which costs nothing because they currently do not have any withdraw fees) and I put my assets into a cold storage wallet. In Canada, this is currently the cheapest method of accumulating Bitcoin and truly owning the assets by storing them "offline" in a cold storage wallet. However, in order to unlock the ShakingSats feature in ShakePay to earn free Bitcoin, you will need to be referred as per their current terms and conditions. Here's my link if you want to use it https://shakepay.me/r/3LZNLLG
3. If you want tax free capital gains and as an existing client of Questrade, you can buy QBTC.U (USD) or QBTC.TO (CAD) in your TFSA. It is certainly expensive in terms of its premium and management fees (1.95%); however, if you are long/bullish in Bitcoin as an alternative asset class, then perhaps it does not really matter. With that said, you do not truly own Bitcoin with QBTC because QBTC is a fund; and therefore, you own shares of the fund and not Bitcoin itself. As the saying goes and as you may have heard if you have done your due diligence: "not your keys, not your Bitcoin". As such, you run and operate with all of the associated risks of leaving your coins on an exchange which is why I choose to own the real thing and use a cold storage wallet to take my Bitcoin off of every exchange that I use (Newton and Shakepay).
4. If you are current in financial news, you would know what happened with the exchange and Canadian company named Quadriga. In short, many investors did not truly own their Bitcoin with them since Quadriga sold "entitlements to receive crypto assets or fiat currency from Quadriga" while Quadriga held the "keys" to the real Bitcoin and investors lost around 135 million dollars CAD, but up to 250 million dollars CAD according to Wikipedia while GlobalNews published it at 220 million dollars CAD. This is easily verifiable information and a famous story as well as a perfect example about "not your keys, not your Bitcoin".
5. Unfortunately, with both QBTC and WealthSimple Crypto, you cannot take your Bitcoin off of their exchanges because, again, you do not truly own Bitcoin with them. Rather, you own shares of the fund whereas those organizations truly own the asset since they have the "keys". They are the ones who own the real asset (Bitcoin) and simply run the fund with the Bitcoin backing that fund as they make money through their ridiculously overpriced spread/fees (WealthSimple Crypto's spread is around 1.5-2.0% if not higher).
6. With those two options outlined above, there is no reason why you cannot do both (i.e. truly own actual Bitcoin in a cold storage wallet and own shares of the QBTC fund in a TFSA). Just realize that with the first option of truly owning the asset (Bitcoin), it is subject to capital appreciation tax whenever you trigger a taxable event such as selling, buying, and/or converting crypto-to-crypto. As such, you need to be prudent in your bookkeeping behavior and calculate your "adjusted cost base" for each transaction. There is no legal requirement forcing you to calculate your "adjusted cost base" for each transaction, but it just saves you a lot of headaches later on when you need to pay taxes. This is no different than investing in traditional equities in a taxable account after you have maxed out your TFSA, RRSP, RESP, etc.
7. Before you invest in anything regardless of the asset class, make sure you understand what you are putting your money towards, understand your risk tolerance, understand the proper asset allocation percentages for your risk tolerance, and formulate a clear plan of what you want to achieve. For me, the biggest investment is not really the Bitcoin itself, but rather, it is in the underlying technology and innovation of the blockchain infrastructure which serves as a massive global public ledger leading to the decentralization of this digital currency as well as its invincibility and independence from overbearing governing bodies whereby the Bitcoin unit itself simply has a monetary value relative to fiat currency. Disclaimer: I am super long Bitcoin.

 

[BillyZane]

Haha, well it seems my post has killed the thread for the time being so I will say this: if anyone has any further questions I will do my best to answer them.

if my post has piqued your interest and you’d like to try out the exchanges I mentioned, I will post links for you.
Shakepay ($30 sign up bonus + access to the shakingsats feature): https://shakepay.me/r/3LZNLLG
Newton ($25 sign up bonus): https://web.newton.co/r/0KB1QO