Beer Store Monopoly

[tboy]

Just to add some info to this subject.
Those non brewers retails stores that sell in the rural areas or where the regular brewers retail is not nearby are limited to only making 10% on beer, liqour or wine.
That IS NOT enough profit to run a store or business. Once again the big boys live off the backs of small store owners. Just like any other government service they offer....barely worth it

Yeah, because they have a monopoly and these stores are an exception to that monopoly. Once the monopoly is lifted, it will only take ONE brewer to lower their prices and when the big three notice a drop in sales? They will have to follow suit.

BTW: this is know as price fixing and is lillegal in every other market area.....

 

[basketcase]

Yeah, because they have a monopoly and these stores are an exception to that monopoly. Once the monopoly is lifted, it will only take ONE brewer to lower their prices and when the big three notice a drop in sales? They will have to follow suit.

BTW: this is know as price fixing and is lillegal in every other market area.....

It has been said in this thread and seems believable that the breweries set their own prices. Looking at the wall with the brand and prices, you see a huge difference in prices of some beers. A number of brands are sold at the beer store for a lot less than the big brands but the cheapies have had little effect on the big brands.


And again, the LCBO sells beer too. It's not a total monopoly.


Todays installment is complaining about the big brands monopolizing the self serve area at the Beer Store but it's a bit of a ridiculous argument since it makes no sense to give prime floor space to a brand that has almost no market.

 

[shack]

By the way, there were those that said Sunday shopping would be the downfall of society too...........

As it has been. Look at global warming, terrorism and the price of gas.

 

[bananaman]

The article also stated that the MINIMUM price beer can be sold for in Ontario is $24 for 24 beers.

Minimum prices, closed distribution system and owned by three companies. Sounds pretty anti-competitive to me. Maybe a monopoly even. Would we allow this in any other area of the economy?

Imagine 1 bank branch per corner - owned equally by the big 6 banks. How much competition would there be over service fees? Not much.

More competition, and truly open competiton, will lower prices and increase selection and convenience.

 

[burlboy]

The article also stated that the MINIMUM price beer can be sold for in Ontario is $24 for 24 beers.

Minimum prices, closed distribution system and owned by three companies. Sounds pretty anti-competitive to me. Maybe a monopoly even. Would we allow this in any other area of the economy?

Imagine 1 bank branch per corner - owned equally by the big 6 banks. How much competition would there be over service fees? Not much.

More competition, and truly open competiton, will lower prices and increase selection and convenience.

There was a price comparison in the original article most of the differences are in the taxes charged by the province. Bananaman is quite right the province forces a minimum price on the brewers they couldn't reduce the price below $24 even if they wanted. The also force tavern owners to charge a minimum price for beer wine and spirits sold onsite. The Brewers Retail is not the bad guy here it's the province that is keeping prices jacked up. Technically the LCBO is competing but, the government owns that.

 

[mfd1068]

Some very good points. No one has mentioned the the fact the the Brewers Retail is one of the largest recyclers in the province. Since taking the LCBO's bottles its become huge with recycling. The mom and pop stores have no ability at all to recycle. My wife works for the beer store and this has become there biggest job she tells me.

 

[tboy]

Rub: I was referring to the home delivery services that currently offer beer wine and liquor, these services use a mini van at best.......NOT a 45' tractor trailer lol....*rolls eyes*......

Road Beer: I don't believe we can buy ONE beer now can we? But as for selling beer at the gas bars, yeah, there are limits to where one should sell an alcoholic beverage. I mean, you wouldn't sell it at a convenience store right across the street from a high school, or in the cafeteria of a grammar school lol....

As for my "one whit" comment, that's true, it wouldn't really matter, but let's keep temptation to a minimum shall we? If someone is going to drink and drive once again, even if you DON'T sell it when he wants to, he'll find a way to get some (many I know used to carry around a 6 or twelve in the trunk for just that occasion).

As for delivering to the local stores: Yeah I've thought it through. We already have Brewer's Retail Trucks going just about everywhere to bars so they have to make a couple more stops along the way? Big deal.

The same logic applies to public transit: it is far more efficient to have one big vehicle moving a lot of people or product than many small vehicles carrying 1 person or product.

It seems that the higher one's beer consumption is the more vested their interest in having cheaper and more accessible 24/7 beer. The less of a beer drinker one is the less it seems to matter and the more the public safety aspects of increasing the potential of drunk driving.

Sorry, but I don't believe Quebec has a higher per capita instance of DUI than we do with our tightly controlled sale of beer. I did a search to see if I can find some records but to no avail.....if anyone else can produce data then post it please.....

Having dated a woman orginally from Quebec City (actually a very small town outside of QC) I tell you, I didn't see drunks running rampant in the streets and it was actually really cool to walk 65 feet across the intersection to pick up another case when we ran out.

Sorry, I don't buy it....at all. That selling beer anywhere other than a beer store will cause the downfall of our society. Other provinces have been doing it for years and they are getting along just fine thank you.

If you use the argument that it will cause more DUI, then I submit this: if an alcoholic needs a beer now, he has to drive to the beer store. If it was sold at a convenience store, he could walk the half block....how is THAT going to increase DUI if by the action it doesn't require someone to drive?

LOL funny thing is: I don't drink so I really don't care LOL.......I just think it'd be better all around.

OH one thing I will also say: Mojorising will have yet one more thing to bitch about: beer caps all over the place lol cuz we all know there's nuttin' better n a beer and a smoke!!!!

 

[S.C. Joe]

I always thought it was not a good idea to sell beer and wine at a gas station but up in the rural areas of Michigan they allowed it cause of the few stores. Well some business owners sued and now some-but not most-gas stations near Detroit sell cold beer and even have signs for it you can see while pumping gas.

Thats today--now like 15-20 years ago back when drive inn movies where still around, a few places sold alcohol drinks you could take back to your car and drink--it was on private land so the law could not stop it. But thats no more as far as I know but I may be wrong, there just very few drive inns anymore.

I do know when it comes to common sense, sometimes the law is wrong.

 

[gdurham]

To Rub I would simply ask why it is that the state feels we are, as its citizens, too irresponsible to not properly conduct ourselves in an open market. Just because something is regulated does not mean that the regulators need to have carte blanche.

I think we in Ontario are way behind the times in this area. I remember my first boys trip down to the US when i was 21 and I was absolutly amazed at the fact that beer could be purchased in many locations. I can't think of a single good reason to stay with the current system.

 

[gdurham]

People will be driving drunk regardless of the where thier alcohol can be purchased. They have these things called beer fridges...and there are these other things called bars, well you know what I mean. Show me some data that supports the view that increased access = increased impaired driving. And then explain to me why other provinces allow it given this data.

Oh, and even at 21 I was smart enough not to drink and drive.

It seems as if people who are pro-regulation think they they know best for everyone and that everyone else is like a bunch of retarded monkeys that couldn't possibly survive without being regulated.

 

[Larry_Fyne]

First of all, it's not a monopoly, you can buy beer at the LCBO and at outlets at the breweries themselves.

Secondly, it is probably the best suply chain for the product. From the moment it leaves the brewery, it is refrigerated. The first time that it is not is when you store a case in your cupboard when you get home.

 

[sailorsix]

I don't trust private retailers to enforce minimum age requirement.

I grew up in Quebec with corner stores selling us beer at 15. Back then the exeception was that they could not sell beer on Sundays. Every summer weekend we would buy a case of 24 Ex, sleep out under the stars, drink ourselves stupid, throwup and then wake up to spend the day at the pool. Not once, between 15 and 18, was I ever asked for ID when buying beer. Given the choice of profit or losing their license the retailers went for profit.

Since Alberta went to private distribution I read somewhere that teenage drinking went up. The Beer Store and LCBO folks are way more trustworthy IMO>

 

[someone]

I don't trust private retailers to enforce minimum age requirement.

I grew up in Quebec with corner stores selling us beer at 15. Back then the exeception was that they could not sell beer on Sundays. Every summer weekend we would buy a case of 24 Ex, sleep out under the stars, drink ourselves stupid, throwup and then wake up to spend the day at the pool. Not once, between 15 and 18, was I ever asked for ID when buying beer. Given the choice of profit or losing their license the retailers went for profit.

Since Alberta went to private distribution I read somewhere that teenage drinking went up. The Beer Store and LCBO folks are way more trustworthy IMO>

I spent most of my formative years in Ontario and from 15 on I never got asked for ID by a beer store or a liqueur store. This pissed me off as I had gone to a lot of trouble to illegally get an age of majority card and the only people ever to ask me for it were private bars and restaurants who where worried about losing their licences. Beer and liquor stores did not seem to car.

BTW, I’ll just point out that convenience stores are not the only option. When I lived in New Zealand, convenience stores did not sell beer or wine but supermarkets did. I found this the ideal outlet as you could pick your wine to go with the food you were buying at the same time.

 

[King Elessar]

That article is wrong and misleading on so many levels. The beer store is a non-profit distribution network. It saves the brewers money, increases efficiency and allows the craft brewers to have their beer sold anywhere in ontario. The Brewers own the beer and set the prices. If the mom and pop stores sell it in competition with the beer stores, they will have to mark it higher(There is no law that says they can't sell beer btw they just can't compete with the people who make it. Now... if you don't want to be able to buy any beer you want from your local pub in Toronto(or at extremely higher prices per pint) then by all means get rid of the most efficient distribution network in north america.

I CAN'T buy any beer I want from my local pub.
And most of the beers I DO buy don't come from this distribution network - they are bought from independent distributors by the pubs.

 

[Tower]

Before being defeated by the Dalton McWimpy Fiberals, the PC's had initiated a study on whether it would be financially prudent to keep the LCBO stores or have it sold by a corner store. Financially, the study showed it would be MUCH more economical to have it distributed by the local stores and not a stand-alone LCBO place.

I remember when that hit the media 5 years ago or so, they just swept it under the carpet saying that even though it was costing taxpayers more, we'll keep the status quo.

Friends of the Liberals keep getting richer.

BTW, I don't drink that much and whenever I cross the border, I buy my beer/brandy/whisky enough to handle my needs for the year. I cross the border enough to save a bundle on Duty Free liquor rather than pay extra in taxes.

 

[King Elessar]

Do the same for your beer, depending on what you like drinking. There are MANY stores in Buffalo and Rochester that sell thousands of brands that you can't ever get here.

 

[gdurham]

Onus is on me...well I don't really care all that much, not a big drinker. From an economics perspective I don't believe in monopoly and I certainly don't believe that our government should have there hands in things better left to the private sector.

http://www.madd.ca/english/research/estimating_presence.pdf

Some of the stats do not seem to support a view that regulation has a correlation on impaired driving. But how can anyone really say for certain....way, way too many variables to isolate it to location and hours of operation of beer stores.

Rub, not trying to be a jackass, but I don't see how one can put much weight in access being a signficant variable in the mix. People drive drunk after going to bars, does that mean that bars should be closed at 9pm? People buy beer and wine cases at a time---should they only be allowed to buy enough so that they can't get drunk?

The issue of changing the monopoly the beer store has is more about pricing than anything. I think you are trying to twist it so that it can be all about impaired driving. This is the arguement the LCBO et al used to defend themselves when there was talk of going private. A good political arguement, but even the politicians pretend to be able to support thier position with statistics.

 

[antaeus]

it's not so much a monoploy as a provincially mandated or chartered industry trade association. The Bewers Retail is owned and operated by the brewers of Ontario according to some formula of market share.

Unfortunately this means Labatt and Molson dominate, and consistently try as hard as possible to make it their own feifdom. When David Peterson government changed liquor laws allowing small brewers, Labatt and Molson via the Brewers Retail locked them out of the stores for years over trumped up inconsequential issues: returned bottles. Provincial government had to step in years ago with a cease and desist order on Labatt and Molson when they again tried to lock out Brick brewery when they introduced RedCap in stubby bottles.

The irony of course is that most of the small Ontario brewers are still Ontarian, Labatt is Belgian and Molson is American, yet they still dominate the Brewers Retail, dreaming up new schemes to lock out the other Ontario breweries from selling their beer.

 

[y2kmark]

Both Labatts and Molsons ...

Are cheaper on the US side of the border (or at the duty free.) You Canadians who think The Beer Store provides you with any kind of benefit are being hosed, eh?! ?

 

[Tarkus]

The irony of course is that most of the small Ontario brewers are still Ontarian, Labatt is Belgian and Molson is American, yet they still dominate the Brewers Retail, dreaming up new schemes to lock out the other Ontario breweries from selling their beer.

Excellent point. The Brewers Retail is indeed entirely owned by foreign companies. Labatt is Belgian, (mind you so will Anheuser Bush in the near future), Molson is owned by Coors and I believe Sleeman's is owned by Sapporo. What annoys me is that the Brewers Retail works directly AGAINST the remaining Canadian Independent Brewers. For years they have come up with any excuse to keep these products out of the Beer Store and even now force these small Breweries to pay fees for the 'right' so sell their products in the only legal distribution system, (next to the LCBO). So let me get this right... the 3 (well 2) companies that want no competition get to set the rates for Independents to sell their product in the very stores that were designed to improve distribution in theory?

I used to be of the opinion that the system works but now I am not so sure. The corner stores are being pushed to the brink; cigarettes having to be hidden and even then competition due to illegal Native sales, 24 hour grocery stores etc. Maybe it would be good to throw them a bone. The Province already has a team that test for the selling of tobacco to underage customers how hard would it be to extend that to beer?

Maybe a combination of existing system and a new one? Let the corner stores sell beer when the beer stores don't? Go back to them being closed on Sunday etc.?

As per who is pushing for keeping it? The union at the beer store and the companies that enjoy their position of privilege. Neither strikes me as being particularly interested in what is best for the public.