Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2022

[silentkisser]

So, a few big names people are in their final year of eligibility. They mostly all have something in common:
Barry Bonds
Sammy Sossa
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling

All four have admitted or were caught used PEDs. All had amazing careers. Do they deserve to get in on their final kick at the can (mind you, the Veterans Committee can still induct them at a later date).

Then there are a couple of great players on the ballot for the first time:
Alex Rodriguez
Justin Morneau
Prince Fielder
David Ortiz
Mark Teixeira

There are other fairly well known names on the list. Here's the complete list:

2022 Baseball Hall of Fame balloting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, who do you think makes the cut this year?

Personally, I think at least Bonds and Clemens deserve to be in the hall. Bonds, while a massive prick, is arguably one of the best home run hitters ever. I mean, yes, he took PEDs that were mostly legal in the later part of his career. But I remember him as a dynamic player with the Pirates back in the early 90s. Clemens was sublime as a Jay, and was so dominant in the mid-80s with the Sox. I wonder if the BBWA will continue to punish them...

A-Rod is a lightning rod, despised by many, but you cannot deny his talent. I don't think he'll make the cut this year, but maybe (depending on what happens with Bonds/Clemens) he might get the nod in a few years.

 

[Micber]

All players using PED should never be allowed.

Fielder and Ortiz will get in this year.

 

[MuffDiver]

Prince Fielder will be lucky to stay on the ballot. There is no way he ever makes it to Cooperstown unless he buys a ticket.

 

[shack]

So, a few big names people are in their final year of eligibility. They mostly all have something in common:
Barry Bonds
Sammy Sossa
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling

Then there are a couple of great players on the ballot for the first time:
Alex Rodriguez
Justin Morneau
Prince Fielder
David Ortiz
Mark Teixeira

So, who do you think makes the cut this year?

Ortiz looks like the best bet.
A-Rod would normally be a shoo-in but he is not well liked and there's allegations of PEDs.

Not sure about this year but Vizquel will get in.

Overall, IMO, aside from the cheaters it looks like a pretty weak list.

 

[redshank]

Ortiz apparently failed a test back in the early 2000s.

 

[silentkisser]

All players using PED should never be allowed.

Fielder and Ortiz will get in this year.

I understand why you feel that way about the PED users. But, for a good chunk of time, it was not against the rules to use them. I also feel that MLB has used PEDs of some kind since at least the 50s. They basically took speed and they were called "greenies," or Dexedrine. They were used up until 2006. So, on some level I feel its a double standard that guys like Ted Williams, Micky Mantle, Hank Aaron or Dave Winfield could have used them, and likely did.

I'd also say that the PEDs most hitters took gave them some extra pop, but it also helped them stay on the field because they recovered quicker from injuries or strain.

But, I still think having the ability to actually make contact with the ball is something no drug on earth can really help you with. Would Bonds be a HOF hitter without them? Very likely. Did A-Rod's body fall apart after he stopped taking them? It appears so...

 

[shack]

Ortiz apparently failed a test back in the early 2000s.

But he had personality and was charming.

 

[K Douglas]

Correction. Curt Schilling was never accused or admitted using PED's. The only reason he is not in the HOF is because of his political views and outspoken nature.
He would easily be getting my vote every year - the credentials are there. Manny Ramirez also gets my vote as do A Rod and Ortiz,

 

[silentkisser]

Correction. Curt Schilling was never accused or admitted using PED's. The only reason he is not in the HOF is because of his political views and outspoken nature.
He would easily be getting my vote every year - the credentials are there. Manny Ramirez also gets my vote as do A Rod and Ortiz,

Well, statistically, Schilling's a borderline candidate. He won just over 200 games, never won the Cy Young, and was never really considered a top three pitcher in any season he played.

Now, he was a WS MVP, struck out just over 3K batters, and was consistently pretty good during his career.

I won't deny the fact that his antics probably hurt him to an extent, but I'm not convinced he was a certified hall of famer.

 

[Darts]

Delgado deserved far better in HOF voting - Jayson Stark Blog- ESPN

 

[shack]

Delgado deserved far better in HOF voting - Jayson Stark Blog- ESPN

If he had the same career with the Yanks, he'd be in.

I also think that his stance on not giving full respect to the U.S. anthem pissed people off.

 

[maurice93]

So, a few big names people are in their final year of eligibility. They mostly all have something in common:
Barry Bonds
Sammy Sossa
Roger Clemens
Curt Schilling

All four have admitted or were caught used PEDs. All had amazing careers. Do they deserve to get in on their final kick at the can (mind you, the Veterans Committee can still induct them at a later date).

Then there are a couple of great players on the ballot for the first time:
Alex Rodriguez
Justin Morneau
Prince Fielder
David Ortiz
Mark Teixeira

There are other fairly well known names on the list. Here's the complete list:

2022 Baseball Hall of Fame balloting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, who do you think makes the cut this year?

Personally, I think at least Bonds and Clemens deserve to be in the hall. Bonds, while a massive prick, is arguably one of the best home run hitters ever. I mean, yes, he took PEDs that were mostly legal in the later part of his career. But I remember him as a dynamic player with the Pirates back in the early 90s. Clemens was sublime as a Jay, and was so dominant in the mid-80s with the Sox. I wonder if the BBWA will continue to punish them...

A-Rod is a lightning rod, despised by many, but you cannot deny his talent. I don't think he'll make the cut this year, but maybe (depending on what happens with Bonds/Clemens) he might get the nod in a few years.

Curt Schilling was never accused of PEDs.

He claims he is being held back because of his political views — if you associate saying offensive things with being political then yes he probably has been by a few. He also fucked some people over in a very shady business deal a few years back which a few people probably also consider.

But as he is not a criminal, and really just a doichebag (IMO) he deserves to get assessed on the field merits only. I would put him in the hall just barely passing the bar on merits.

 

[maurice93]

All players using PED should never be allowed.

Fielder and Ortiz will get in this year.

Fielder? How. He will not even get the 5% minimum.

As for Ortiz. He was outed in the Mitchell Report as a PED user. He will not get in right away and should only get in after guys like Clemens, Bonds, and Arod do.

 

[maurice93]

Delgado deserved far better in HOF voting - Jayson Stark Blog- ESPN

This article was actually not a case for him to get in the hall. But for him to stay on the ballot longer.

Stark says he deserved more than 3.8% of the vote, but yet is unclear whether he has him as a hall member himself. I’m not sure what he is whining about — if you are saying the guy is not clear HOF on your ballot how can you bitch at others for not putting him on their ballot?

Yes the hall can make an adjustment to the limit however. They can reduce the cut line for first time nominees to say 2.0% and have it at 5% for year 2, so that a guy can gain momentum.

 

[maurice93]

If he had the same career with the Yanks, he'd be in.

I also think that his stance on not giving full respect to the U.S. anthem pissed people off

I strongly doubt he would have been a hall of famer in New York. He may have been the ballot a little longer.

You want a good comp to test your New York Theory. Mark Texiera who has nearly identical career WAR to Delgado (right around 50), was a much better fielder with 5 gold gloves, a very good but worse hitter than Delgado (OPS+ of 138 vs 126) had similar AS and MVP results. Will Texiera get more than 3.8% — yes because he is more complete, and I am not denying that he will get a minor New York boost. But that boost will not be as substantial as you think. in my view he is at the exact same level as Delgado and will never come close to sniffing the Hall.

He will hang around the ballot for longer because he will likely make the 5% cut perhaps due to New York bias, but hanging around the ballot really means nothing. There are no plaques for that.

 

[maurice93]

Correction. Curt Schilling was never accused or admitted using PED's. The only reason he is not in the HOF is because of his political views and outspoken nature.
He would easily be getting my vote every year - the credentials are there. Manny Ramirez also gets my vote as do A Rod and Ortiz,

I assume if you are including 3 ped users, you also support Clemens and Bonds.

 

[maurice93]

i doubt any steroid users ever get in the hall in the standard 10 year period.

I suspect some voters would be fine with the hall of fame setting up a separate veterans committee that 100% acknowledges them as hall of famers but who used or were suspected of PEDs.

And I think that is where we are ultimately headed. If Bonds or Clemens can’t get in none of them that follow have any chance in hell until a special committee is formed to let them in.

 

[silentkisser]

i doubt any steroid users ever get in the hall in the standard 10 year period.

I suspect some voters would be fine with the hall of fame setting up a separate veterans committee that 100% acknowledges them as hall of famers but who used or were suspected of PEDs.

And I think that is where we are ultimately headed. If Bonds or Clemens can’t get in none of them that follow have any chance in hell until a special committee is formed to let them in.

You might be right. I'm not a fan of these guys, but statistically, they are impressive. They, for a good chunk of this time period, were not breaking any rules by taking PEDs. And when Bonds was crushing balls, there was no hitter pitchers feared to face. How many batters get intentionally walked when the bases are loaded???

 

[maurice93]

You might be right. I'm not a fan of these guys, but statistically, they are impressive. They, for a good chunk of this time period, were not breaking any rules by taking PEDs. And when Bonds was crushing balls, there was no hitter pitchers feared to face. How many batters get intentionally walked when the bases are loaded???

Bonds and Clemens would already be long in, if it was up to me.

I saw Bonds play a number of times in Montreal with Pitt and San Fran before he started juicing up before 1999. He was such a complete player that was already a clear hall of famer … then he had arguably the greatest hitting years of all time, roids aided.

 

[MuffDiver]

If we go only by statistics, Bonds, Clemens, Manny Ramirez, Ortiz, A-Fraud, McGwire, Sosa and Palmeiro are all Hall of Famers. However, 6 of them are not and likely will never be elected in by the BBWAA (Ortiz and A-Fraud just became eligible, so we'll see if they are consistent). Ortiz seems to be revered by all, so perhaps he gets a pass because he is so damn likeable and the evidence may have been tainted?

Except for Manny, MLB ignored the issue and now the assorted Veterans Committees will have to deal with it. In my opinion as a fan, Bonds (either steroids or gigantism - the skull does not grow), Manny (caught more than once), A-Fraud (caught), Ortiz (Mitchell Report), Palmeiro (Mitchell Report), Sosa (Mitchell Report) and Clemens (I believe Mitchell Report) are all guilty.

Problem is, with the exception of Manny and A-Fraud, I do not believe any of the others were actually caught outside of the Mitchell Report. I believe Ivan Rodriguez was also reputed to have been on the Mitchell Report, yet he got in.

I think Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Palmeiro and A-Fraud all would have got in anyway, had they stayed clean. The HOF needs to make it clear who player during the Steroid Era and let the fans decide for themselves. Based on ALL the HOF criteria. some of these men do not qualify. The problem is evidence!