Legislation will be easy. Heard someone from the city on CBC the other day saying it will become another regulation based on complaints. Like smoking, they will do period visits to places but mostly act on complaints from citizens. It won't be expensive or hard to do.
Banning on Shark Fin
- Thread starter Casa_Nova
- Start date
On this topic, there is an article in the Economist on efforts to pursuade the Chinese to give up shark fin soup, including recruiting the efforts of NBA star Yao Ming.
http://www.economist.com/node/21531043
From the article, it's worth noting that imitation shark fin soup is already available in China; therefore, I would suspect that Chinese restaurants here in Toronto could simply switch to the imitation variety should a ban take effect.
http://www.economist.com/node/21531043
From the article, it's worth noting that imitation shark fin soup is already available in China; therefore, I would suspect that Chinese restaurants here in Toronto could simply switch to the imitation variety should a ban take effect.
if they used the whole shark after they caught it, it woul be one thing. cutting the fins off then tossing it back to die or be eaten alive is something else. i hunt a lot and would never go out and kill something if i didn't plan on using 90% of the animal minimum. i won't kill something if i don't plan on using it all. they should ban the fishing of them altogether.
All valid points. My understanding is that most of the market is controlled my criminal cartels. In many cases, the sharks are being caught illegally in protected areas. There was another ship "arrested" in the Galapagos just a couple of weeks ago.How will legislation work? Can it be legal today and illegal tomorrow, a period of transition is needed, grandfathering existing stocks of restaurants and seafood produces shop? Economic compensation if confiscation of shark fin from current owners? Enforceable?
But you're right, there probably needs to be a phased-in approach.
I tend to travel to Central America a lot on business and on a similar note, many of the poorer areas (say Honduras for example) have a major problem with illegal fishing. Much of this isn't done on a large scale... it's some guy in a boat with a line, catching a few grouper to sell to a tourist restaurant so he can feed his family. If you think the current economic situation is tough here, you should see it in Honduras. My point is that many of these sharks are caught by local fisherman who aren't "evil" people. Just guys trying to make a living. All the same, wiping these animals into extinction doesn't do anyone any good, other than the companies/organizations that control the markets. The dude doing the fishing is scraping by. The thugs that control the industry are getting rich.
Banning the sale will not stop shark-finning, but it will reduce the market for it, and eventually, it might not be worth it. It will also have the side effect of making criminals out of resauranteurs who insist on serving it anyway. Such is life though.
"Fishing" generally is a destructive activity (I don't mean those of us that enjoy landing a smallie once in a while). Commercial fishing is totally non-selective for the most part. A dragger pulls up everything in it's path. The non-commercial species are simply discarded, dead. What a waste. Shrimp fishing can create 100s of pounds of dead by-catch for a handful of shrimp...
You might not be aware that California, which is the largest market for fins outside of Asia, has now banned the importing or selling of shark fins. Shark-finning in US waters has been illegal for "ever" I believe. So it isn't like Toronto is leading the way with this legislation. There will be many examples of other jurisdictions' bans that can be copied.
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2011/10/11/california-bans-shark-fin-trade/
Simon, your point about the waste is bang on and driven only by money. The fins are valuable. The rest of the shark isn't, so it's dumped.
This isn't really a fair comparison, since cattle aren't exactly endangered, but can you imagine the public uproar if meat processors took a steer, hacked off its back legs because that's where the best beef comes from, while it was still alive, and then dragged the bleeding, maimed animal back out into a field to bleed to death. Imagine driving through the country and seeing thousands of cattle bleeding, dieing a terrible death. Shark finning is no different. We just don't see it because it happens far offshore and the animals sink out of sight. The fact that many species of sharks are nearing extinction makes it that much worse.
I heard a statistic on a Shark documentary about the USS Indianapolis (narated by Richard Dryfuss) that last year, 4 people were attacked and killed by sharks.
Humans killed 4 million sharks for their fins.
Yay.
Humans killed 4 million sharks for their fins.
Yay.
I am not a Shark Fin Soup eater.Ban it! Shark fin soup is overated anyways.
To original poster watch this documentary - Shark water http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0856008/
You might change your mind after.
But this film looks staged.
I am not saying there is no cruel shark fishing, I want to know what this ban will result hurting the wholesome shark fishery, the one that harvest and sell the whole sharks? The sale of every marketable body part could be the making or breaking point of the industry profitablity.
How many tons of sharks are permitted by the Federal Government every year to Canada? If the fin parts are banned, how much the price for the rest of the fishes will go up?
If this inhumane shark fishery is so widespread why isn't the United Nations denouncing it and ban it on the international level? The UN should show leadership co-ordinating between the producing and consuming countries and protect the humane and wholesome shark industry and not throw thousand and thousand poor fishermen out of business and employment.
For the local level, why punish Toronto and Mississauga Chinese restaurants for a Federal issue (Can MUNICIPAL governments enact city by-laws, that is clearly and strictly federal jurisdiction on products that are legal and not deemed dangerous to Canadians) and push their customers to Richmond Hill and Markham, Ontario and Brampton?
Is this fair?
Not many humans are killed by baby seals but we Canadians do harvest and kill them!!!I heard a statistic on a Shark documentary about the USS Indianapolis (narated by Richard Dryfuss) that last year, 4 people were attacked and killed by sharks.
Humans killed 4 million sharks for their fins.
Yay.
We need their skins for furs and we need to control their population to protect cod and other fisheries.
if they can't use the entire shark , it is obscene to cut off the fins and dump the carcass into the sea....that is no different from the ivory trade (also banned) or the killing of black bears just for a certain gland that they incorrectly believe will make their penis grow
Those bans are handled at UN level.if they can't use the entire shark , it is obscene to cut off the fins and dump the carcass into the sea....that is no different from the ivory trade (also banned) or the killing of black bears just for a certain gland that they incorrectly believe will make their penis grow
If there is no different why The UN and then Government of Canada not banning it?
Yes that film of ( staged or not) cruel shark fishing does create the impression every fin is from a de-finned shark and the rest of body thrown back to the sea alive.
Wrong!!!!!! Some may but only very minority.
By the way if you talk to the people who handle the fin trade, you will know the fin soup customers eat are mixed with other soft bones from the fish main body.
I do agree the industry at the international level should be regulated, quota and fishing method etc, but not at municipal level.
Co-ordinate international agreements and only allow exporting and importing wholesome sharks at the national level. Shark fin eaters can pay through the roof for the fin and process the rest of body for other commercial products including fish oil, fish meal for farmed fisheries and pet foods.
All producing processing and consuming countries will be benefited.
Does this make more sense?
Is that too much to ask?
Sorry if my comment was a little terse. But hopefully it all worked out for the best.Your question has made me see the light. Hallelujah! Mr. Shark and I are now best buds...I think. But why does he keep looking at me as if I were a tin of human limb soup?
jwm
Casa Nova, you have every right to eat shark fin soup. It is not for anybody else to tell you that you cannot. Just know that eventually there won't be enough shark fins available once shark populations are decimated due to overfishing. If you wish to preserve sharks so that you and future generations can always enjoy shark fin soup, you and other shark fin eaters will need to commit yourselves to preserving shark populations. It is in your best interest to do so.
If not the ecosystem will still re-adjust once these 'apex predators' are gone. We'll just be a sharkless world.
Personally, I would not like to see sharks go the way of the dodo bird. They're remarkable creatures. But I have no authority to tell you to stop eating them.
If not the ecosystem will still re-adjust once these 'apex predators' are gone. We'll just be a sharkless world.
Personally, I would not like to see sharks go the way of the dodo bird. They're remarkable creatures. But I have no authority to tell you to stop eating them.
Not just wasting time!!!!!Why the fuck is our tax dollars being spent on this shit! Don't city governments have enough on their plate that they don't have to waste time on this matter. This is not a municipal issue. Jackasses.
Worse.
The restaurants could in theory start class action and sue for damage and when they win then may god have mercy on the taxpayers who those cities represent.
Casa Nova, you have every right to eat shark fin soup. It is not for anybody else to tell you that you cannot. Just know that eventually there won't be enough shark fins available once shark populations are decimated due to overfishing. If you wish to preserve sharks so that you and future generations can always enjoy shark fin soup, you and other shark fin eaters will need to commit yourselves to preserving shark populations. It is in your best interest to do so.
If not the ecosystem will still re-adjust once these 'apex predators' are gone. We'll just be a sharkless world.
Personally, I would not like to see sharks go the way of the dodo bird. They're remarkable creatures. But I have no authority to tell you to stop eating them.
Thats why international cooperation is needed.
Scientific research identifying shark species that is abundance and species that is endangered will help the international community to set fishing quotas.
Farmed fisheries may also reduce shortage of certain species the same way we farm crocodiles for their skins (which btw crocodile meat are not 100% comsumed either).
Its not going to cost us much or anything. It'll be another restaurant rule, no mouse shit, no smoking, no shark fin soup. Same inspectors, just one more rule in the book.Why the fuck is our tax dollars being spent on this shit! Don't city governments have enough on their plate that they don't have to waste time on this matter. This is not a municipal issue. Jackasses.
Reducing the market is an acceptable societal response, like banning the use of dogs and cats for meat in restaurants, if the majority support it.
That's democracy for you.
Primarily because there is no argument to made in favour of a ban, other than the emotional one. Seals are not endangered at all. And because the "cull" is centered on the youngest seals, the "replacement" in the population is rapid... a season. With sharks, all ages of sharks are caught, so the replacement cycle is much longer. This is absolutely critical for a population to sustain itself. Seals reach sexual maturity in 3 - 5 years and most of the pups survive (unless they get clubbed to death...). They generally reproduce every year. Sharks reach sexual maturity at 6 -12 years of age, depending on species. Most can only reproduce every three years. While they have much higher birth rates than seals, the mortality rate is very high, as it is with most fish.Why don't they ban seal hunting? Clubbing a seal to death doesn't look good to me.
There MIGHT be some evidence that controlling the number of seals MIGHT help the restoration of some fish species. (There is little scientific evidence that there is much if any truth in this. I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt however.)
By contrast, sharks provide a critical role in the ecosystem. They are also being hunted to extinction. The seal hunt takes about 300,000 seals. The shark hunt takes somewhere between 70 and 100 MILLION sharks annually.
Both hunts are barbaric. The seal hunt is the only thing about being a Canadian that embarrasses me...
Actually, it probably won't, although no one knows for certain. I suppose just like climate change... You might be able to ignore the 99.9% of the scientific community and convince yourself that that "theory" is all bullshit. The problem is, by the time you figure out that you are wrong, it's too late.If not the ecosystem will still re-adjust once these 'apex predators' are gone. We'll just be a sharkless world.
I was listening to Jerry Agar on CFRB this AM. He was comparing the rants of that religious nutbar who predicted the end of the world recently (seems his calculations were off and he has revised the date) to those of the global warming camp "led" by Al Gore. He actually said something to the effect that both "theories" were supported by "evidence"... one being the Bible, and the other by some scientific papers. I almost drove off the road as he appeared to be comparing a book of fables to thousands of documents of empirical evidence. At any rate, in either case, if you are wrong, you're fucked. So be sure you understand the science and be damn sure you have it right.
And if you can't be certain, then best to err on the side of caution, don't you think?
And try not to loose sight of the barbarism of the hunt.
