Are women stupid?

[jjwilson]

Jaded one:

A few years back after a particularily bad stretch of yelling, door-slaming and we're-not-talking I went to our family doctor, who happens to be a woman, and asked for help dealing with our problems. The doctor referred me to a counselor, who was also a woman, and said that both my wife and myself should go together. She refused so I went by myself. After two sessions the counselor said she was impressed with how objective I was and also that I hadn't left a long time ago. She then suggested that we would probably be better off separating and offered to steer me toward that goal! I was shocked, I gotta tell you. I have made, and continue to make, sincere and concrete attempts to improve our communication. Don't be surprised that I am not seeking solutions on this anonymous forum - I have already had expert professional advice and also good advice from some in my personal support system.

As for compromise - there's lots unfortunately it's all from my side. Regarding your assertion that I am looking to blame her for everything - wrong. I am very much a "What's right, not who's right" kinda guy.

Assume for a moment that my situation is as I describe it - do you not think it's normal for someone who is being oppressed to try to carve out a little someone in their life that their own to control, beyond the reach of anyone else?

jj

 

[sweet guy]

I think many guys don't know how to talk to women. You can see it in this thread by the initial question posed "Are women stupid?", and the attack/blame game where they themselves are faultless in the ordeal. Many guys seem to like to play this role of powerless victim (keeping track of arguments on a calender?!?! WTF??) or give up too easily and use it as an excuse to cheat and don't really do anything proactive to mix things up and get the woman out of her shell. If you can analyze the why or at least make an attempt you will usually find the women more willing to talk.

I'm curious to know what kind of tangible,concrete suggestions and successful solutions to back up your thread, rather than saying many guys should deserve "shove it" by those women.

 

[SaveFerris]

Hey everyone. My theory is this: when we marry someone because of the emotional feelings (ie. it FEELS so so good being with this person, or the sex is hypnotizing, etc, etc) without having doen our "intellectual" homework on the person - ie. what makes her click, then we are setting ourselves up for major issues to come up when the "honeymoon stage" ends.

I believe that all of us humans are to an extent a product of our childhood and adulthood traumas. Subconsciously, what we perceive, what we THINK we are hearing, or saying to someone, is actually not reality. And, I believe only a small portion of the population is aware enough in themselves that they can see this about themselves.

Eg. My ex grew up as a kid watching her father physically and emotionally abuse her mother. He controlled her every action - things were so bad that he wouldnt even let her go to a sibbling's funeral one time. But the mother was a mouse. She never once fought back, never once complained, took the punishment quetly. In fact, the mother would even whisper to the kids to go say "hi" to their father when he'd arrive home from work.

Couple that with my situation: parents didn't hug us kids, didn;t tell us they loved us, and only would react when we'd screw up or get into trouble, but would never compliment or comment on us when we'd do something good.

So, I grow up with a need to be loved. I find her, and I get the love I'm looking for. As for her, she has long ago made a decision to never allow ANY MAN to do to her what her mother allowed happen. But ironically, in protecting herself from being walked over by a man, she subconsciously BECOMES what she dispises most : her father. SHE begins to take to the offensive, the moment any trivial situation makes her feel that she is getting the short end of the stick. Eg. even little things like her losing a discussion over what video to rent would cause her to feel she was being treated like her mother was, and thus would erupt.

And since I believed that she was the only person in my life that ever showed any love for me, I kept sticking around, trying desperately to make up and get the relationship back to "normal"!!

The aftermath is that I was able to walk away from this volatile situation 2 years ago, and, following a year of uncertainty over the decision, I am now in a very happy place. But, most importantly, any woman that may come into my life will be screened for those kinds of behaviours, but also, more importantly, since we all have issues, I will ascertain whether or not she is a person that is AWARE of her unhealthy characteristics.

 

[Quest4Less]

Women are like floor tiles.....

If you lay them right the first time, you can walk on them for years....

 

[sweet guy]

Women are like floor tiles.....

If you lay them right the first time, you can walk on them for years....

Only if it's like a cake walk.

Seriously where can you find a woman who let you to lay her right in the first place like floor tiles?

 

[Big Daddy]

jjwilson:

I think you are stuck in this relationship for a while. Just hang on till your kids grow up, and then let go. I don't see any other alternative. Keep seeing the SPs once in a while, as you already are. This is the only way to keep sane.

 

[The_Jaded_One]

I'm curious to know what kind of tangible,concrete suggestions and successful solutions to back up your thread, rather than saying many guys should deserve "shove it" by those women.

There is no such thing as universal solutions to apply broadly to unique individuals and specific relationships. I never said that the man was all to blame, usually that lies somewhere in the middle. Of course many people have a problem with personal responsibility and play the blame game, which doesn't solve problems but rather creates them.

Having read some of your posts in this thread I would say your problem lies specifically with you. Whenever someone tries to make the assertion that a group of people, however defined, is all bad that is a red flag to me indicating that the problem is not with the group of people they are characterizing (unfairly I might add) but in fact with them. It is obvious to me that you have some really severe issues with women by how you choose to deal with them when you feel that you are being hard done by (i.e. "Any REAL man should teach a lesson to those ingrates".) Your bad attitudes become self-fulfilling so that automatically any women that you see will take on the negative characteristics that you associate with them. So basically any chance you may conceivably have had with a woman is doomed to failure b/c of how you are going to present yourself to her with your judgmental and extremely caustic attitude.

 

[The_Jaded_One]

Assume for a moment that my situation is as I describe it - do you not think it's normal for someone who is being oppressed to try to carve out a little someone in their life that their own to control, beyond the reach of anyone else?

First off, I have never been to a marriage counselor but my guess is the session would probably consist of them letting you rant and air your griefs and then afterwards they would analyze the problem as they feel you want it to be interpreted. Of course if you are the only one going to counseling, they can afford to be extremely one-sided in their diagnosis b/c naturally you will be more inclined to come back if you feel they are siding with you. I would think that any counselor that gives marriage advice condemning the other side and focusing in on just one solution (which isn't even a solution but rather an out) w/o having heard the full story is shortchanging you and being dishonest.

Of course you can present yourself in a favourable light and ask me leading questions that require an affirmative answer. But the premise you are setting up for me to analyze is false and one-sided.

 

[mister.b]

in light of the situation we as men should get together and create a relationship application and get our wants and needs in writing. it seems that when dating none of the traites seem to appear but once that ring goes on the finger all hell breaks lose i myself have been married more that once with children it's not worth living your life in misery for the kids. life is to short to live it unhappy your going to pay the price regardless so the question is happyness or misery?

 

[wop]

I have never been married and never will, it sounds so completely messed up.


www.sinfulselina.has.it

yup...sure is...

 

[sp free]

I just have to chime in here.

I think JJ does have a very good argument, I've been in a similar situation myself, however....you are using it to justify seeing mp's and sp's and that's not really fair, IMO.

Men and women should never live together. The beginning of the end is the day you move in together.

Women usually push for marriage and commitment, they always want the relationship to progress. I'm with the other poster that said he'll never allow himself to be vulnerable to a woman again.

I know that when I start to care about a woman I turn into a huge pussy, and no matter what they say, they don't want that.

The best thing you can do is be completely honest from day one and never compromise your true self, or you are done.

I know I never will again, and if that means I never get married, or I'm never in another long term relationship, I'm ok with that.

Salvation lies within.

Or something.

 

[happygrump]

There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works.

Mark Twain

 

[sweet guy]

But, I must say that feeling hurt by the "silent treatment" seems miniscule compared to how she would feel if she discovered your "hobby".......

Thank goodness I never have a "civilian" to be answer to!

In this "hobby", you could be intimate with hottie say Selina but you don't have to deal with all the poo-poo "civilian" chicks dump on you for granted!

I am not ready to be yelled like another grown-up teenage boy by her!!

 

[sweet guy]

Your bad attitudes become self-fulfilling so that automatically any women that you see will take on the negative characteristics that you associate with them. So basically any chance you may conceivably have had with a woman is doomed to failure b/c of how you are going to present yourself to her with your judgmental and extremely caustic attitude.

What Bad attitudes?

Is that a crime to be realistic or skeptical?

Negative characteristics? I am very interested in knowing how tolerant, "enlightened" you say you really are when your "sweetheart" is no longer a "sweetheart" she seems to be.

Oh do I say Love is blind!

 

[The_Jaded_One]

What Bad attitudes?

Ahahahahahaha. Okaaaaaaaay. Whatever you say...

Do you even bother to read what you write?

Originally posted by sweet guy
Is that a crime to be realistic or skeptical?

It is not a crime, however, it is not emotionally healthy to allow your bitterness towards women to consume you like you have.

Originally posted by sweet guy
Negative characteristics? I am very interested in knowing how tolerant, "enlightened" you say you really are when your "sweetheart" is no longer a "sweetheart" she seems to be.

See this is what I mean by a bad attitude. Of course the woman is to blame for everything gone wrong in a bad relationship and the man is just an innocent bystander, right? How do you expect to grow as a person if you don't accept personal responsibility for your actions? A relationship is defined by the interaction of TWO people with each other where BOTH parties take EQUAL responsibility for making it work.

 

[SirWanker]

Ahahahahahaha. Okaaaaaaaay. Whatever you say...

Do you even bother to read what you write?



It is not a crime, however, it is not emotionally healthy to allow your bitterness towards women to consume you like you have.



See this is what I mean by a bad attitude. Of course the woman is to blame for everything gone wrong in a bad relationship and the man is just an innocent bystander, right? How do you expect to grow as a person if you don't accept personal responsibility for your actions? A relationship is defined by the interaction of TWO people with each other where BOTH parties take EQUAL responsibility for making it work.

Riiiight. O Jaded_One:

What is your basis for concluding that these pitiful souls were consumed by bitterness towards womyn? That they are/were innocent and perhaps deserving of the treatment they got from the S/O????

methinks you have been fortunate not to have dated a b!tCh...ahem..demanding but senstive woman so until you've had the displeasure of such a relationship , please refrain from poking your head from the ivory tower..........

/flame suit on....

 

[sp free]

Wow, someobody agrees with me.
And 100% no less.

So now there are 2 people that are right all the time

 

[WhaWhaWha]

Just caught the title of this thread. Can't wait for JJ's subsequent threads asking "Do all Frenchmen stink?" or "How many Poles does it take to change a light bulb?"

 

[gala]

My wife pulls these tricks sometimes, and it used to lead to us having really horrible fights. Eventually I tried to convince her to go to a marriage counsellor, and like the guy above, wound up going by myself because she refused to go. I think right here you can see a trend: guys tend to focus on solving the problem, whereas women tend to focus on the problem.

Anyway I got one bit of good advice from the counsellor: I'm not responsible for her screwed up acting out emotional melodrama. I'm only responsible for my own. There's really nothing I can do to "make her" stop acting like a mad woman.

So now when she pulls this shit I just say "screw this", and I go to the office and do some work, or hang out with my friends, and then come home and sleep on the couch. I can't say that doing this has helped her any, or even helped the relationship, but it sure has helped me, my life is much more peaceful.

Most of the time my wife's not like this, and we have a good relationship. But when she does go off the deep end I just check out for a few hours and try to ignore it. It's really her problem.

At some point I guess I did decide that the fringe madness she sometimes decends into is not so bad that it oughtweighs the benefits of the relationship, so we're still together and generally happy. I feel she imposes a "tax" on our relationship whereby we lose whole days we could have spent happily together, but I guess I'm willing to pay the tax, and I just look for ways to shift more of the burden of it to her--by getting out of there when she's like that.

 

[AZN_LOVER]

You know that commercial about bits and bites ???

" I've got 2 spiced rings, 1 cheesestick..." etc etc ??

When I was married I ALSO used to call it the bits and bites routine except then:

"She had two mood swings, three temper tantrums and one cold shoulder. Next day, whole new ballgame..."

Living with my wife was like walking on eggshells, and the last year was nothing short of miserable. It got to the point where I literally couldn't do anything right... but of course all the people she WORKED with thought she was wonderful, coz she was polite to THEM...

When she called me a piece of sh!t in front of her parents I knew it was time to say adios once and for all...

To all my fellow TERBites out there living in misery I can only say one thing:

Get control of your OWN life and make the tough decision... Yes you may be living in an apartment again short term, but it will be YOUR apartment and when you come home and close the door that's IT...

Yes, it can get a little lonely sometimes, but that's what this hobby is for, and once you get to know YOURSELF, you can focus on new hobbies and meet new people...

I have no doubts that I'll find somebody else down the road... Somebody who'll have a positive outlook on the world and treat me the way I deserve to be treated...

If the X wants to be a miserable c*nt....well that's HER problem....