Just to clarify...Having had to hire a few in the past, here is how it works. You call up the Police Service (not the association, they have nothing to do with it). You tell them the details, they ask for info and payment requirements. The bill is based on time, whether vehicles are required, and the number of cops needed. They also add an admin surcharge. York now pays them through their regular paycheque. Before when it was cash at the site, it caused all kinds of problems, including cops getting audited by CRA. The admin and HST is not from the union.
Are the Toronto police fleeing in the face of the enemy?
- Thread starter nottyboi
- Start date
Exactly my point. You are blaming the cops because the girl is dead and not the gunman. Blame the culture that supported this event if you do not want to blame the guy with the gun but don't blame the police.
I would not blame the cops for the death of the girl. They cannot really be expected to stop a random bullet (I don't think she was the target...maybe she was I am not sure). What I am really disgusted is that the TPA is saying they will not allow their police to work in dangerous situations. If that is the case, what is their value? The reason they are paid so much is supposedly BECAUSE their job has risk. If that is not the case, 35K a year is MORE they adequate.
I think what they definitely need to do is assess the venue first before agreeing to do the paid duty. In this case, there were 4000 people, and only 10, yes TEN cops. And that place is huge. Then they have to see what the security screening process is. How long is the site secured before the event? Is security sweeping the area before the event begins so no one hides a gun beforehand? Are all entry points scanned by metal detectors? Are the guys screening trained? Obviously in this case, the ball got dropped somewhere.I would not blame the cops for the death of the girl. They cannot really be expected to stop a random bullet (I don't think she was the target...maybe she was I am not sure). What I am really disgusted is that the TPA is saying they will not allow their police to work in dangerous situations. If that is the case, what is their value? The reason they are paid so much is supposedly BECAUSE their job has risk. If that is not the case, 35K a year is MORE they adequate.
Sorry, the TPS.Just to clarify...Having had to hire a few in the past, here is how it works. You call up the Police Service (not the association, they have nothing to do with it). You tell them the details, they ask for info and payment requirements. The bill is based on time, whether vehicles are required, and the number of cops needed. They also add an admin surcharge. York now pays them through their regular paycheque. Before when it was cash at the site, it caused all kinds of problems, including cops getting audited by CRA. The admin and HST is not from the union.
We cut a cheque on the site. I think it's to ensure that the cops get their pay, rather than chasing companies to pay those fees weeks if not months later.
Then we get the admin fee and HST in an invoice later.
We don't T4A those cops, but I suppose the TPS does that?
Kugel, what about union benefits? Is that embedded in the hourly cost? This is how we charge our construction workers if a job is on a by-time basis.I think what they definitely need to do is assess the venue first before agreeing to do the paid duty. In this case, there were 4000 people, and only 10, yes TEN cops. And that place is huge. Then they have to see what the security screening process is. How long is the site secured before the event? Is security sweeping the area before the event begins so no one hides a gun beforehand? Are all entry points scanned by metal detectors? Are the guys screening trained? Obviously in this case, the ball got dropped somewhere.
Heard that Muzic originally wanted to install a 9 foot fence but the City said "no can do, must be no more than 6 feet high". Some people think that a gun was passed over the fence to someone inside. I would suggest putting a video camera to film everybody who enters but the liberal lefties will probably argue "gross invasion of privacy". 5 people shot with 2 dead is a small price to pay for protecting your privacy?I think what they definitely need to do is assess the venue first before agreeing to do the paid duty. In this case, there were 4000 people, and only 10, yes TEN cops. And that place is huge. Then they have to see what the security screening process is. How long is the site secured before the event? Is security sweeping the area before the event begins so no one hides a gun beforehand? Are all entry points scanned by metal detectors? Are the guys screening trained? Obviously in this case, the ball got dropped somewhere.
I think they are supposed to, and then the cops are also supposed to claim all of them too (wink wink). A friend of mine who works with TPS in their IT dept. said that about 3 yrs ago, a bunch of them got audited and nailed for failing to claim. CRA scored huge.Sorry, the TPS.
We cut a cheque on the site. I think it's to ensure that the cops get their pay, rather than chasing companies to pay those fees weeks if not months later.
Then we get the admin fee and HST in an invoice later.
We don't T4A those cops, but I suppose the TPS does that?
I believe their benefits are a function of their regular salary, and not deducted from their paid duty earnings. Same with union dues, they aren't deducted from paid duty earnings.Kugel, what about union benefits? Is that embedded in the hourly cost? This is how we charge our construction workers if a job is on a by-time basis.
I think when you have a place that big, with that many people, it wouldn't take too much creativity to figure out how to get a gun inside. And if one of those security guys is a buddy, it's even easier.Heard that Muzic originally wanted to install a 9 foot fence but the City said "no can do, must be no more than 6 feet high". Some people think that a gun was passed over the fence to someone inside. I would suggest putting a video camera to film everybody who enters but the liberal lefties will probably argue "gross invasion of privacy". 5 people shot with 2 dead is a small price to pay for protecting your privacy?
Ridiculous argument. Festivals and such would only need to hire as many cops as they normally would under the current paid duty arrangement. Why would that change? Are they "overrun" with cops now?That would mean every festival, every event, dance, wedding, funeral where the venue requires cops would be covered by the guys on duty, taking them away from answering calls and patrolling etc.. OK, so you hire how many more to do this as an on duty thing? And the taxpayer pays for cops to babysit a hip hop club instead of the club owner himself? Add to that the equipment, training, cars.... And each cop doesn't work 24/7, they get time off, vacation, etc, which is when they normally do these paid duties. Would you rather have Muzik pay for the cops, or you?
blame the club who apparently didn't wand those who got into the club from their one of three VIP entrancesSorry I don't see it that way. I still blame the cops who were paid to provide a safe environment. That's their JOB.
Because a dozen more security would have helped against a gun? As it is the hired security fucked up.Muzik also has dozens of paid security. Who were most likely doing all the work anyways.
Replace whatever cops with security and you could have added dozens of more guards. They literally could have posted one at every point of the perimeter and been a more active deterrent than the cops who would have been all bunched up at the front chatting about their pension.
I agree that the paid duty bit is excessive but that has no bearing on this shooting.
I
Criminals work around whatever obstacle they have to commit their intended crime. All anyone can do is put up a reasonable amount of deterrents that lessen the likelihood of their success. What makes more sense? 4 or 5 cops standing out front chatting while shit happens at the back, or a dozen (+) guards actually patrolling the grounds? Which deters crime more?Because a dozen more security would have helped against a gun? As it is the hired security fucked up.
I agree that the paid duty bit is excessive but that has no bearing on this shooting.
When the venue has 4000 guests, neither.
Personally though I take uniformed cops more seriously than bouncers - hell, I was a bouncer.
Personally though I take uniformed cops more seriously than bouncers - hell, I was a bouncer.
And what good is a group of uniformed cops out front when someone is sneaking guns in the back?When the venue has 4000 guests, neither.
Personally though I take uniformed cops more seriously than bouncers - hell, I was a bouncer.
One of the issues with paid duty like this is the club owners instruct the cops where they are needed. Owner could easily have told some of the cops to stand at the VIP entrances.
Sorry but that's not how it works. I know. I've lived it.One of the issues with paid duty like this is the club owners instruct the cops where they are needed. Owner could easily have told some of the cops to stand at the VIP entrances.
It is a shame when violent thugs initiate shootings and yet some people blame these tragedies on police that are not physically able to prevent every shooting in this city.
The same people that blame the police for not preventing this shooting are the same people that would have been screaming bloody murder had the cop interfered with the gunman and shot and killed him
Unfortunately the police are the blame for everything in this city.
I wonder who people like Jack Burton would be calling if someone broke into his home and threatened his family with a gun.
Obviously he cannot call the police because they are not there to protect him.
Either you've never been to clubs or you are totally missing the point.
Cops DO NOTHING at these venues, the oggle the girls and guys and stand around, they do squat, and from the looks of it even during and after the shooting they did squat.
It's an issue of paid-duty cops getting paid to do nothing. Their presence means nothing to gangsters, but the TPS tries to spin it the other way.
Drake finally speaks up:
http://www.cp24.com/mobile/entertai...ence-following-after-party-shooting-1.2517562
http://www.cp24.com/mobile/entertai...ence-following-after-party-shooting-1.2517562
You were a cop?Sorry but that's not how it works. I know. I've lived it.
