Are Tamil's "Real Canadians"

[Aardvark154]

The Immigrant fallacy goes like this:
"All Canadians are immigrants, therefore there is no such thing as a "real" Canadian and therefore I am just as Canadian as any Canadian."

They believe this because they grew up in Toronto which is the epicentre of Canadian immigrants. Go live in a small town in the prairies or the maritimes and you will see what a real Canadian looks like. You will realise, yes there is such a thing as a "real Canadian" and Canadian culture. Toronto is NOT Canada; the mistake immigrants make is that Toronto is typical and representative of Canada; the rest of Canada HATES Toronto.

Tarkovsky, I believe you are correct in what you wrote, and not just outside Ontario. Toronto is not Niagara Falls, nor Kingston, nor London, nor indeed most of the Province outside the Golden Horseshoe.

Anyone who has studied 20th Century Canadian History or Government is well aware of the phenomenon you describe. In fact for anyone outside the Golden horseshoe one of the interesting things as one drives along the QEW or the 401 are the number of Canadian flags one sees (on non-federal property) this is something that is almost never seen elsewhere where the Provincial Flag is the norm.

 

[Aardvark154]

According to the 2006 census there are about 34,500 Tamils in all of Canada with just over 29,000 in Toronto. Even if you add the Sri Lankans and Tamils together there are only 140,000 in Canada with about 110,000 in Toronto.

Indeed this is related to my post just above.

It is easy to see this as an issue of "importance" when the Gardiner is being shut off. From the perspective of Owen Sound or Kingston, yet alone most of the rest of Canada - YAWN.

 

[snowleopard]

Nice volley.

And as we demand the representatives of that 5 bil learn what made us and the society they're joining, we owe ourselves the equivalent effort to figure out what moves them.

How else will we understand that cricket in the schools our kids go to is not an insect infestation?

Now how did the Empire sneak in again?

And I concede your point as well. Given the past influence of the old colonial powers in much of the Middle and Far East, no doubt the ghost of the Empire lingers on there, haunting us still with it's plaintive cries of: "Do you see these chains?"

We seem to have lost the rabblerousers .. no doubt bored them to tears

Time for a break

 

[Aardvark154]

how deep is your Canadianness? Is it just a political phenomena?

Admittedly my experience is mostly of those who have emigrated from Europe, but I find it quite interesting how quickly families become "Canadianized" - for instance "the sport" childen play is Ice Hockey.

 

[Aardvark154]

As do many countries, including [the U.S.A.]. That stuff about "not swearing allegiance to foreign princes" was repealed lsome time ago.

It's a more complex issue than you think. Legaly yes you can be a dual national in the U.S. Factualy when you take the naturalization oath you must indeed "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty"

 

[Aardvark154]

I seem to recall one situation in Iran and one in China involving a "Canadian" holding dual citizenship got into problems with the locals and the ability of Canada to help them was rather limited because they were not "100%" Canadian. If you are 100% (or even only 75%) loyal to Canada, there is a very strong likelihood that Canada will be 100% loyal to you even if you commit murder and mayhem abroad.

What you state are not the actual legal issues involved. It is rather that if you are national of say Australia and Canada - legally in Australia you can only be fully a national of Australia and in Canada only fully a national of Canada. Thus your other state can provide consular assistance since you are a national of the country you are in. By contrast if you were in the U.S. or Italy you can chose to be fully one, or "half" one and "half" the other.

 

[Aardvark154]

Only several thousands who are willing to accept the unlimited liability of being in the Canadian forces. I don’t remember anyone from my days in the Canadian forces that was not proud of their oath.

As well as a great many more civilians than Snow Leopard thinks. Particularly outside the GTA.

 

[Aardvark154]

My family arrived about 70 years or two generations before the British North America Act took effect.

Is that early enough?

I think so.

 

[Aardvark154]

one of the messes those brutish Crusaders visited on the Muslim end of civilization was their attempt to re-establish the Roman Empire of the East at Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul. They represented both the Bishop of Rome and the Holy Roman Empire. Much still-resented rapine and pillage, among Eastern Christians and Muslims. Kinda relevant today from Bali to Belarus.

Seemingly there is some confusion between the sack of Constantinople in 1204 during the Fourth Crusade with the Fall of Constantinople to the Ottoman Turks in 1453. However you are certainly correct that the sack of the city is still highly resented by Orthodox Christians.

 

[Aardvark154]

How else will we understand that cricket in the schools our kids go to is not an insect infestation?

I know it makes me strange as a multi-generaltional native born North American - but I like Cricket.

 

[snowleopard]

As well as a great many more civilians than Snow Leopard thinks. Particularly outside the GTA.

Actually, I live outside the GTA, so I do have some perspective on that. My point was only that most Canadians, regardless of their demographic, would find the antiquated idea of symbolically pledging allegiance to the Queen of England leaving them feeling either a bit perplexed or possibly downright resentful.

And btw, I'm not making this up ...

October 1, 2007

TORONTO (Reuters) - More than half of Canadians want to cut ties with the British monarchy and scrap the constitutional system under which Queen Elizabeth is Canada's head of state, according to an online opinion poll ...

I'm assuming of course that they polled Canadians outside the GTA

To be honest, I can't speak for our men and women of the military, but I'm not sure why their opinion on the Monarchy would differ dramatically from the general population.

 

[Aardvark154]

Actually, I live outside the GTA, so I do have some perspective on that. My point was only that most Canadians, regardless of their demographic, would find the antiquated idea of symbolically pledging allegiance to the Queen of England leaving them feeling either a bit perplexed or possibly downright resentful.

And btw, I'm not making this up ...

October 1, 2007

TORONTO (Reuters) - More than half of Canadians want to cut ties with the British monarchy and scrap the constitutional system under which Queen Elizabeth is Canada's head of state, according to an online opinion poll ...

I'm assuming of course that they polled Canadians outside the GTA

To be honest, I can't speak for our men and women of the military, but I'm not sure why their opinion on the Monarchy would differ dramatically from the general population.

The military tend to hold certain values dearer - to quote the southern side of the border "Duty, Honour, Country". And on the northern side of the border the Sovereign is included in that.

As to the Reuters article not in my part of the world.

Aardvark, U.E.

 

[Rockslinger]

Not many Countries in the world live with the kind of diversity we have in relative peace freedom and harmony while maintaining for the most part good Government. It is something, no matter what the background is, for Canadians to be proud of.

On this point, we are in total agreement. I think that Canada is the greatest and most tolerant country on the face of the Earth, even the entire universe. (Rock: Don't say that too loud, you'll piss off a bunch of LLL's.)

 

[snowleopard]

As to the Reuters article not in my part of the world.

Aardvark, U.E.

And what insular enclave of outmoded British imperialism where pollsters fear to tread would that be?

 

[Rockslinger]

Given the past influence of the old colonial powers in much of the Middle and Far East, no doubt the ghost of the Empire lingers on there

The folks in the "old country" miss those beloved Brits. BRING BACK THE BRITS!

 

[snowleopard]

On this point, we are in total agreement. I think that Canada is the greatest and most tolerant country on the face of the Earth, even the entire universe.

High five to that my friend! Perhaps too tolerant at times, but better that than the opposite. And let's not confuse LLL tolerance with reasoned restraint.

 

[Aardvark154]

And what insular enclave of outmoded British imperialism where pollsters fear to tread would that be?

Now, now, you don't really want me to tell you - there might be a stampede from Toronto.

Suffice it to say it is not in Québec, nor in Metro Toronto, nor for that matter in the Hindu Kush or Pamirs (the former are nice places for Snow Leopards, however).

 

[snowleopard]

Now, now, you don't really want me to tell you - there might be a stampede from Toronto.

Lol ... I somehow doubt that ... it wouldn't be Queenston by any chance?

btw, while this snowleopard was born and raised in boring old Ontario, I have visited Tibet, as well as many other places, and highly recommend it to those who wish to expand their minds.

 

[Aardvark154]

I have visited Tibet, as well as many other places, and highly recommend it to those who wish to expand their minds.

Before a number of things both personal and geopolitical changed I thought it would be a fantasic experience to cross from Kazakhstan into Xinjiang - China and then take the Karakoram Highway to Pakistan. Or the other way round.

 

[glaeken]

Wasn't what I asked. Nice your folks were part of so much of the building of the country, but I was curious what you called the 'founding' of Canada, since—unlike our rowdier neighbours to the south—we've practised continuous evolution, rather than 'finding' a single intelligent design all at once.

How's that for conflating disparate threads?

Are we to understand that your Canada came into being July 1, 1867 then?

Yes, I believe the nucleus of Canada came into being on July 1, 1867 and was joined over time by other regions with common interests. The most recent of course being Newfoundland in 1949. For those not familiar with the growth of Canadian Confederation - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Confederation#List_of_provinces_and_territories_in_order_of_entering_Confederation.

I would disagree that the U.S. had a single design from the start. The U.S. hardly resembles the original 13 colonies. It's just that their early growth in particular came from military and financial acquisition rather than our approach of voluntary membership.