Arabs are blind by choice

[smyth]

Jewish Fundamentalism In Israel

Israel Fascist?

Totalitarian? definitely not
corporatism? marginal
authoritarian? nope
nationalism? sure
militarism? sure (with reason)
anti-anarchism, anti-communism? probably a bit out of date
anti-liberalism? double non-check
Your classification of Israel as fascist fits into thie following part of wikipedia's definition

Publisher: Pluto Press; New edition (July 1, 2004)
ISBN: 0745320902

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...6096/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0377687-4939123?ie=UTF8

Jewish Fundamentalism In Israel

Almost every moderately sophisticated Israeli Jew knows the facts about Israeli Jewish society that are described in this book. These facts, however, are unknown to most interested Jews and non-Jews outside Israel who do not know Hebrew and thus cannot read most of what Israeli Jews write about themselves in Hebrew. These facts are rarely mentioned or are described inaccurately in the enormous media coverage of Israel in the United States and elsewhere. The major purpose of this book is to provide those persons who do not read Hebrew with more understanding of one important aspect of Israeli Jewish society.

http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/jewish_fundamentalism_society.html

 

[DATYdude]

The great thing about your posts in this thread is that you prove my point so perfectly (assuming you're an Arab, of course you may just be a blind-by-choice orientalist or neo-marxist or whothehellknows).

You must have posted 3000 words intended to prove that Israel today is fascist based on the acts and philosophies (real or not real) of small groups or movements in British Mandate Palestine.

Why does this make you willingly blind?

You ignore Israeli society now, one of the more open and vibrant democracies in the world.
You ignore the many other founding philosophies and groups contributing to the early character of Israel.
You don't know anything about fascism.

But everything about Israel MUST be bad because that is the conclusion that defines your argument. Ass backwards way of thinking, closed-minded, intellectually BLIND.

Oh and your post about Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, I assume that you've read the book, could you lend it to me?

Can you tell me how many Jews would be considered fundamentalists and what their relative power in Israel is? If it's 1% of Israeli Jews (which I think is about right, depending on your definition) then its 40,000 people, pehaps represented by 1 or 2 in parliament (there are more Arabs in parliament than that).

Now if you're talking 1% of muslims, OK that's a lot of people, 1,000,000 probably. 1,000,000 ready and willing to kill themselves to blow up westerners, would that be a reasonable estimate?

I have a book too, "smyth's an idiot" by I.P. Nightly (author of "Rusty Bedsprings"), published by It'sPublishedSoItMustBeTrue Press.

ANyway, I know you won't bother to respond, you're just helping Mark to keep the shitstorm at full force.

 

[smyth]

Here is the link for the book

Oh and your post about Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel, I assume that you've read the book, could you lend it to me?

http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/jewish_fundamentalism.html

The Religious Background of Rabin's Assassination

PRIME MINISTER YITZHAK RABIN was murdered for religious reasons. The murderer and his sympathizers were and still are convinced that the killing was dictated by God and was therefore a commandment of Judaism. Comprehensive surveys, published in the Hebrew press, of people in religious neighborhoods and especially religious settlements indicated great sympathy for the murder.

 

[smyth]

Israeli Rule over Palestinians is Fascist

Israeli Rule over Palestinians is Fascist

Israeli rule over Palestinians is essentially fascist. The Israeli army assault on the West Bank town of Beita in the wake of the death of an Israeli teenager can only be described as a pogrom -- brutal, murderous assault such as the Tsarist police and the Nazis committed against Jews.

Killing persons armed only with stones or "trying to flee" - - including numerous Palestinian teenagers -- collective punishment, beatings, imprisonment without trail for indefinite periods, deportations -- this is fascist repression, akin to Nazi terrorism.

One need not look far to find the roots of Israeli terrorism and fascism. Take Israeli Prime Minister Yitzak Shamir. Before World War II he belonged to a Zionist grouplet that, in 1940, offered to enter the war on the side of Nazi Germany if the Nazis would permit a Zionist state, run along fascist lines, in Palestine.

 

[basketcase]

smyth; instead of giving links that are not proving anything (DATY's summary was not too bad) why don't you address the definition of fascism and show how it applies to Israel instead of just relying on the emotional aspect of calling people fascist just because you don't like them.

I won't wait for a response because there is absolutely no way that Israel can be classified as totalitarian, authoritarian, or anti-liberal.

There is strong nationalism and their militarism (unlike that of Germany and Italy) was formed to counter a real (not an imagined) threat. Don't waste our time by describing (yet again) how some Israelis are right wing and religously observent as they do not make up a majority of the country.

If you don't like wik's definition,

fas·cism Audio pronunciation of "fascism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.

1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism

Lets double check. Parlimentary system with seperate courts so I guess dictator is out. There is more governmental/beurocratic control than here but it is still essentially a capitalist system so no there as well. Free press that is often critical of the government and the public is free to object and protest so I guess that's out. Mel did claim that the Jews caused all the wars so he thinks they are belligerent. Nationalistic, sure. Yes there are racists there (as with everywhere) but at least their textbooks don't spread stories of Arabs making falafels with the blood of Jewish infants.

So at best, Israel meets one of the four categories stated in the definition. I doubt that's enough to have any self respecting academic to assert that Israel is fascist.

 

[toni59]

The Real Terrorist

THEY QUOTED:


"OUR RACE IS THE MASTER RACE. WE ARE DIVINE GODS ON THIS PLANET. WE ARE AS DIFFERENT FROM THE INFERIOR RACES AS THEY ARE FROM INSECTS. IN FACT, COMPARED TO OUR RACE, OTHER RACES ARE BEASTS AND ANIMALS, CATTLE AT BEST. OTHER RACES ARE CONSIDERED AS HUMAN EXCREMENT. OUR DESTINY IS TO RULE OVER THE INFERIOR RACES. OUR EARTHLY KINGDOM WILL BE RULED BY OUR LEADER WITH A ROD OF IRON. THE MASSES WILL LICK OUR FEET, AND SERVE US AS OUR SLAVES."
Now, who said it?
Was it Hitler?
Was it Hess?

Menachem Begin
(Israeli Prime Minister, 1977-1983)


“THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PALESTINIAN PEOPLE” 1969, Golda Meir, Israeli prime minister


“I DON’T UNDERSTAND THE COMPARISON BETWEEN US AND (APARTHEID) SOUTH AFRICA. WHAT WE HAVE IN COMMON IS THAT WE BOTH TAKE MEASURES TO ENSURE THAT WE ARE NOT OVERPOWERED. THOSE WHO SAY THAT BLACKS IN SOUTH AFRICA ARE PRESECUTED ARE LYING.."
1987, Rafael Eitan, Israeli Chief of Staff, Minister and Member of the Israeli Parliament



"EVERY TIME WE DO SOMETHING, YOU TELL ME AMERICANS WILL DO THIS AND WILL DO THAT. I WANT TO TELL YOU SOMETHING VERY CLEAR: DON'T WORRY ABOUT AMERICAN PRESSURE ON ISRAEL; WE, THE JEWISH PEOPLE, CONTROL AMERICA. AND THE AMERICANS KNOW IT."
2001, Ariel Sharon, Israeli prime minister (during discussion with the Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs, Shimon Peres)

 

[toni59]

AND NO, ARABS ARE NOT BLIND BY CHOISE. ARABS ARE FACING U.S. TERROR IN IRAQ, IN PALESTINE, EVERYWHERE IN MIDDLE EAST WHERE THE OIL IS.

PS: I'm not Arab or Muslim, but in this war I fully support Hezbollah because these are the Lebanese Resistance fighting the Israeli invaders. Why Bush and Blair speak about the 2 captured Israeli soldiers while there are 10,000 people in Israeli prisons, 450 of them children and 120 women? 2 soldiers worth more than 10,000 people?
And who is really the biggest terrorist, OBL who killed 3,000 people at 9/11 or the US sanctions in Iraq which between 1993-2001 caused the death of 1.5 MILLION CHILDREN according to UNICEF?

toni

 

[DATYdude]

Welcome (back)Toni, what was your last handle?

Where'd you get the false Begin quote, Hezbollah's website?

Just a brief counter to your false assertions:

Israel didn't invade Lebanon until after Hezbollah crossed Israel's border, killing and kidnapping soldiers. Hezbollah had been training and arming for years with throusands of missiles aimed at Israeli civilians. This, 6 years after the UN (oh right, a criminal organization for the sanctions)

You "fully support" that?

Well you have plenty of company among the "blind by choice", hope you enjoy the company.

If you want to be a real contributor to the daily shitstorm you might want to get some instruction from MarkJfr and smyth. You post 6 new threads every day, each making totally outrageous claims which are supported by blogs written by the Iranian Information Ministry (or white supremacists or anti-US websites, they all are getting to be good pals), which you can either link to incessantly or cut and paste, either way they are so long that nobody really reads these, and all that lingers is the original outrageous (and easily disproven) claim. Rinse and repeat.

 

[toni59]

Welcome (back)Toni, what was your last handle?

Where'd you get the false Begin quote, Hezbollah's website?

Just a brief counter to your false assertions:

Israel didn't invade Lebanon until after Hezbollah crossed Israel's border, killing and kidnapping soldiers. Hezbollah had been training and arming for years with throusands of missiles aimed at Israeli civilians. This, 6 years after the UN (oh right, a criminal organization for the sanctions)

nice joke!

1. the Israeli soldiers were not kidnapped. They were CAPTURED AFTER BATLLE IN Lebanese area (Bekaah farms) occupied by Israel since 1967.

2. Do you have any comment for the 10,000 Pals and Lebanese prisoners in Israel, 400 of them CHILDREN and 100 of them WOMEN?

 

[toni59]

If you want to be a real contributor to the daily shitstorm you might want to get some instruction from MarkJfr and smyth. You post 6 new threads every day, each making totally outrageous claims which are supported by blogs written by the Iranian Information Ministry (or white supremacists or anti-US websites, they all are getting to be good pals), which you can either link to incessantly or cut and paste, either way they are so long that nobody really reads these, and all that lingers is the original outrageous (and easily disproven) claim. Rinse and repeat.

I'm not a white-supremascist (like G.W.Bush and his family, especially his grandfather) or a semite supremascist like Begin or Elian (whose quotes are true of course). I'm not a fan of Iran or of the Iranian president.

I'm just a person who supports the people who fight the brutal military occupation in middle east and the zionazi crimes backed and supported by US and UK.

"..making totally outrageous claims which are supported by blogs written by the Iranian Information Ministry.."
How do you know that? You have your own info? MOSSAD or something like that?

 

[basketcase]

nice joke!

1. the Israeli soldiers were not kidnapped. They were CAPTURED AFTER BATLLE IN Lebanese area (Bekaah farms) occupied by Israel since 1967.

You should get a map. Bekah VALLEY is in the north east of Lebanon, not the south, Shebah Farms are to the south east of Lebanon near mount Hermon(part of Syrian Golan Heights).

The kidnapping took place across the border from Aitaa al-Chaab (also spelled Ayta ash Sha'b) in the south central of Lebanon.

Here is a detailed map of S. Leb. http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/lebanon_southern_border_1986.jpg

Judging by your lack of knowledge on your first point, I would ask you to find some backing for your 10 000 people (I assume you mean Lebanese?) in Israeli prisons before I waste my time trying to respond.

 

[DATYdude]

Why are you whispering?

You're mixed up.

1. It's Shabaa (or Shebaa) farms, not Bekaah farms. The UN has ruled that Shabaa belongs to Syria, not Lebanon. It has been occupied since 1982, not 1967. In any case, the Israeli soldiers were attacked in Israel propert, near Metullah, not on Shabaa. Look it up. Oh, and the UN certified that Israel's 2000 withdrawal from Lebanon was complete. But the Arabs only turn to the UN when it supports them not when it opposes them. Israel would do the same if the UN ever supported them.

2. I don't know about the Palestinians in prison, I don't have any record of why they are there. I know that Hezbollah were trying to get Samir Kuntar released, who has been in an Israeli prison for more than 25 years, and all he did was murdering a 28 year old Israeli and his 4 year old daughter (he killed the daughter with his rifle butt). So I'm not crying for him. I'm also not crying for the Palestinian criminals in jail, nor am I crying for the Palestinians plotting or helping suicide bombers or others attacking Israeli civilians. And I personally don't care about women or children in jail (17 year olds are children, right?), if they have committed crimes or violent acts.

No doubt there are quite a few Leanese and Palestinians who have been wrongfully jailed but I have no idea hoe many that would be.

Does anything justify cross-border raids, kidnapping, shelling civilians?

 

[Kitwat]

I suppose if Israel just went away there would be peace and tranquility in the Middle East. Not likely. The Muslims are in conflict with the Hindus in India, the Jews ion Israel, the Christians wherever they find them and the aetheists in Russia. The Shites hate the Sunnis, the Sunnis hate the Kurds, the Kurds hate the Wahabees and the Wahabees hate everybody. Hamas and El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and Fatah all fight among themselves. As the Muslims spread intop Europe they have been in conflict in France, England, Holland, Denmark and Germany. Now we are having terrorists organizing in Canada as well. If it wasn't for Israel they would find lots of other reasons to fight with others and each other.

 

[train]

Toni59 please provide a credible source for your quotes because quite frankly without it I just don't believe you.

 

[DATYdude]

Oh and could you find the sources for your Begin or Elian (who are you talking about?) quotes.

Just saying it's true or inventing a new phrase "Zionazi" doesn't make it true.

Do you have any idea what you're talking about or are you a little whiner like MarkJfr and smyth. Let's see some facts, jack.

 

[allaboutben]

I suppose if Israel just went away there would be peace and tranquility in the Middle East. Not likely. The Muslims are in conflict with the Hindus in India, the Jews ion Israel, the Christians wherever they find them and the aetheists in Russia. The Shites hate the Sunnis, the Sunnis hate the Kurds, the Kurds hate the Wahabees and the Wahabees hate everybody. Hamas and El Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and Fatah all fight among themselves. As the Muslims spread intop Europe they have been in conflict in France, England, Holland, Denmark and Germany. Now we are having terrorists organizing in Canada as well. If it wasn't for Israel they would find lots of other reasons to fight with others and each other.

Anyone who knows the history of Islam knows that part of the ambiguity of the Koran leads some Muslims to believe that in order to serve Allah, they must convert or kill all Infidels.

 

[Kitwat]

I don't beieve your quotes for a minute. You have to be a pretty special kind of anti-semite to go to the trouble of comming up with all that BS and then seemiingly believing it yourself.

 

[Kitwat]

The problem with the Koran is it treaches that violence in the defence of Islam is ok. The problem is defining what is an attack on Islam. Does a political cartoon constitue an attack. Does occupying land such as Jews (infidels) ini Israel constirute an attack. Christianity is a passive religion - turn the other cheek -- give unto Caesar...Etc." Islam is not a passive religion. The moderates and fundamentalists can't seem to agree on just what is an attack on Islam. If Jews and Christians reacted violently to every seeming slur against their faiths it would be a pretty scary world.

 

[basketcase]

The problem with the Koran is the same problem with the Bible or the Torah. The radicals use a piece of text written thousand(s) of years ago to justify thier ambitions. At the current time, there are more than enough in the middle east willing to misuse that power.

 

[LancsLad]

The problem with the Koran is the same problem with the Bible or the Torah. The radicals use a piece of text written thousand(s) of years ago to justify thier ambitions. At the current time, there are more than enough in the middle east willing to misuse that power.

Damn, now I agree with something basketcase said.


I think I need a drink.