If you think that we are at all privy to "the best intel out there", I might suggest that you are naive.
April 13, 2012 : P5+1/Iran summit, take 2.
- Thread starter seth gecko
- Start date
No, but the best intel has continually said they stopped any nuclear weapons program in 2003.If you think that we are at all privy to "the best intel out there", I might suggest that you are naive.
What we get is the best that Israel can find to make some kind of case that they need to be bombed.
Its more PR then intel, designed to help rally those already convinced, like Fuji.
But again, if that's the best they can find, then you have to admit its a pretty thin case.
You seem to think we have access to the best intel. I don't.No, but the best intel has continually said they stopped any nuclear weapons program in 2003.
What we get is the best that Israel can find to make some kind of case that they need to be bombed.
Its more PR then intel, designed to help rally those already convinced, like Fuji.
But again, if that's the best they can find, then you have to admit its a pretty thin case.
And I think there is a reason that Iran failed to comply with all 66 requests made for specific inspections over the last several years...
And because you are as biased towards Iran as some are against Iran, you chose this particular small peice of the puzzle and claim it may be "the best they can find." That is, at best, a myopic approach.
I'll stick to the NYT's reporting of the US's NIE of 2010 saying that Iran stopped its weapon program in 2003.You seem to think we have access to the best intel. I don't.
And I think there is a reason that Iran failed to comply with all 66 requests made for specific inspections over the last several years...
And because you are as biased towards Iran as some are against Iran, you chose this particular small peice of the puzzle and claim it may be "the best they can find." That is, at best, a myopic approach.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html
Now, since you seem to think that you've got better, lets see it.
I don't have to. Your article and its links already cover it. Read carefully, stop cherry picking what your bias drives you towards.I'll stick to the NYT's reporting of the US's NIE of 2010 saying that Iran stopped its weapon program in 2003.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/25/world/middleeast/us-agencies-see-no-move-by-iran-to-build-a-bomb.html
Now, since you seem to think that you've got better, lets see it.
http://www.voanews.com/content/iran_iaea_talks_described_as_very_constructive/666480.html
Based on these reports. how long before the IAEA and the IRG have to address the truly tough questions (as posed by Bruce Willis, 0:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrMmiUSVRRI )
Based on these reports. how long before the IAEA and the IRG have to address the truly tough questions (as posed by Bruce Willis, 0:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrMmiUSVRRI )
The Baghdad round of talks regarding the Iranian nucular situation started off with lots of high expectations: a day or so earlier, Iran had tentatively agreed to have the IAEA thoroughly inspect Parchin, hoping to gain some goodwill (or maybe just buy time). The P5+1 (c'mon, I think enough time was passed that we can let Germany join the club, so lets just call it the P6) but hold fast on the 20% enrichment freeze, and have offered to supply medical isotopes as well as nuclear safety cooperation, spare parts for civilian aviation, and other sundry benefits (possibly beads worth $24). Iran is really looking for some relief on the economic sanctions. Negotiations are to continue.
It sounds like the hardliners are now pushing the UNSC and the IAEA to make it impossible for Iran to agree. Every time Iran does, they up the stakes. Now they are asking for extra inspections (to areas not governed by the NPT), giving up the right to enrich to 19% (allowed by the NPT) and not gain anything in return. Iran is asking for a deescalation of sanctions, reasonably, if it agrees to all conditions but now the IAEA and P6 aren't willing to offer anything. Its ridiculous how the AIPAC/Israeli hardliners are working so hard for a war that nobody wants and nobody can win. If the talks are continuing, then it becomes almost impossible for Israel to attack politically (non-NPT country attacks NPT country in negotiations about treaty?), but if the hardliners can make the negotiations that heinous who knows what will happen.
Hold on to your hats and hope that $200 oil and thousands of deaths don't happen.
Hold on to your hats and hope that $200 oil and thousands of deaths don't happen.
Sure Groggy, like you actually know what is being proposed and discussed by both sides. If Iran didn't want to abide by the additional protocol they should never have signed it. They are fanatical bullies who need to be brought into line, and they will decide if it is done easy or hard.It sounds like the hardliners are now pushing the UNSC and the IAEA to make it impossible for Iran to agree. Every time Iran does, they up the stakes. Now they are asking for extra inspections (to areas not governed by the NPT), giving up the right to enrich to 19% (allowed by the NPT) and not gain anything in return. Iran is asking for a deescalation of sanctions, reasonably, if it agrees to all conditions but now the IAEA and P6 aren't willing to offer anything. Its ridiculous how the AIPAC/Israeli hardliners are working so hard for a war that nobody wants and nobody can win. If the talks are continuing, then it becomes almost impossible for Israel to attack politically (non-NPT country attacks NPT country in negotiations about treaty?), but if the hardliners can make the negotiations that heinous who knows what will happen.
Hold on to your hats and hope that $200 oil and thousands of deaths don't happen.
How about....... Now they are asking for extra inspections (to areas not governed by the NPT), giving up the right to enrich to 19% (allowed by the NPT) and not gain anything in return....
Sounds pretty quid pro quo to me.Iran is asking for a deescalation of sanctions, ...
Fanatical bullies?Sure Groggy, like you actually know what is being proposed and discussed by both sides. If Iran didn't want to abide by the additional protocol they should never have signed it. They are fanatical bullies who need to be brought into line, and they will decide if it is done easy or hard.
Interesting.
Which country is threatening to bomb the other right now?
Which country is a treaty signatory and in the midst of talks?
Which country has the bomb?
Which country is in the midst of racist 'pogroms'?
Which country was singled out more by the latest Amnesty report?
Which country's citizenship is based on racist rules?
Iran's history with the NPT is a long and complicated issue. Their nuke industry was started by the US, but they ended support after the failure of the CIA funded revolution in '53. The additional protocols were supposed to come with some guarantees, but fuel swaps were reneged on and threats continued.
And just look at your last line:
Those are the words of a bully.They are fanatical bullies who need to be brought into line, and they will decide if it is done easy or hard.
No those are the words of someone who supports international order and can understand what it means when someone threatens genocide:Fanatical bullies?
Interesting.
Which country is threatening to bomb the other right now?
Which country is a treaty signatory and in the midst of talks?
Which country has the bomb?
Which country is in the midst of racist 'pogroms'?
Which country was singled out more by the latest Amnesty report?
Which country's citizenship is based on racist rules?
Iran's history with the NPT is a long and complicated issue. Their nuke industry was started by the US, but they ended support after the failure of the CIA funded revolution in '53. The additional protocols were supposed to come with some guarantees, but fuel swaps were reneged on and threats continued.
And just look at your last line:
Those are the words of a bully.
Iran has fully announced why and how it plans to wipe out Israel and kill all the jews. Apparently they think they can do it in nine minutes or so.
And if you want to discuss domestic politics...I am happy to point out how Iran treats Christians and dissidents. Your support for such tyranny and human rights abuses is pathetic.
There is a reason the free world is economically pummeling Iran right now.
Just 20%, except the sample the IAEA found 'accidentally' enriched to 27%. I'm sure that's it though (at least until the IAEA get access to other sites)..... but hold fast on the 20% enrichment freeze, ...
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...Rwh0Dw?docId=17f6df2bd8d644e0b682f8c1a7ffffd3
When I first saw read this "news" this morning, I got a bit of a chuckle out of it. Personally, I find the timing of this release more interesting than what it reports. And I also think it further strengthens the assertion that you can NOT easily wash away or hide the trace remnants of nuclear processing/testing, rather than adding any weight to the argument that they are building nukes. When Parchin continues to come up clean, its much MUCH more likely because nothing recently happened, rather than the evidence was destroyed. Or maybe the Iranians just forgot to sanitize the Fordow site before the IAEA inspections. Or maybe Ahmadinejad wanted Mr Wolf to say "please".............Just 20%, except the sample the IAEA found 'accidentally' enriched to 27%. I'm sure that's it though (at least until the IAEA get access to other sites)..
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...Rwh0Dw?docId=17f6df2bd8d644e0b682f8c1a7ffffd3
Lets see what comes up in the days surrounding the Moscow round of talks, and if anything changes in the negotiating stance of the P6 or Iran. My guess is it'll be the same ol' rehash of old unsubstantiated allegations with no change in the positions of either party, & no improvement in addressing the standoff.Mr Wolf: Farid, lead the way. Boys, get to work.
Ahmadinejad: A please would be nice.
Mr Wolf: Come again?
Ahmadinejad: I said a please would be nice.
Mr Wolf: Get it straight buster - I'm not here to say please, I'm here to tell you what to do and if self-preservation is an instinct you possess you'd better fucking do it and do it quick. I'm here to help - if my help's not appreciated then lotsa luck, gentlemen.
Khamenei: No, Mr. Wolf, it ain't like that, your help is definitely appreciated.
Ahmadinejad: I don't mean any disrespect, I just don't like people barking orders at me.
Mr Wolf: If I'm curt with you it's because time is a factor. I think fast, I talk fast and I need you guys to act fast if you wanna get out of this. So, pretty please... with sugar on top. Clean the fucking enrichment site.
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/05/25/the_arrogance_of_powerIt sounds like the hardliners are now pushing the UNSC and the IAEA to make it impossible for Iran to agree. Every time Iran does, they up the stakes. Now they are asking for extra inspections (to areas not governed by the NPT), giving up the right to enrich to 19% (allowed by the NPT) and not gain anything in return. Iran is asking for a deescalation of sanctions, reasonably, if it agrees to all conditions but now the IAEA and P6 aren't willing to offer anything. Its ridiculous how the AIPAC/Israeli hardliners are working so hard for a war that nobody wants and nobody can win. If the talks are continuing, then it becomes almost impossible for Israel to attack politically (non-NPT country attacks NPT country in negotiations about treaty?), but if the hardliners can make the negotiations that heinous who knows what will happen.
Hold on to your hats and hope that $200 oil and thousands of deaths don't happen.
Walt addressed the power & influence of groups like AIPAC on US foreign policy a few years ago (and got skewered over it). He makes some pretty good points in this article.
So evidence that Iran has enriched nukes far beyond what they need for power generation and far above what they need for medical isotopes doesn't bother you?When I first saw read this "news" this morning, I got a bit of a chuckle out of it. Personally, I find the timing of this release more interesting than what it reports. And I also think it further strengthens the assertion that you can NOT easily wash away or hide the trace remnants of nuclear processing/testing, rather than adding any weight to the argument that they are building nukes. ..
http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/05/25/the_arrogance_of_power
Walt addressed the power & influence of groups like AIPAC on US foreign policy a few years ago (and got skewered over it). He makes some pretty good points in this article.
Does the fact that the rest of the world seems to be concerned take anything away from your 'blame Israel' thesis?
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2265/ir...madinejad-economic-sanctions-military-options
I guess that AIPAC is so powerful that they have warped world opinion.A 21-nation Pew Global Attitudes survey finds widespread opposition to Iran obtaining nuclear weapons. And in most countries, there is majority support among opponents of a nuclear-armed Iran for international economic sanctions to try to stop Tehran's weapons program. The Chinese and the Russians are notable dissenters in this regard. The poll also found majorities in Western Europe and the United States disposed to taking military action to prevent a nuclear-armed Iran. Again, the Russians and Chinese disagreed.
I don't know why anybody would be overly concerned with trace amounts of 27% enriched uranium. Trace amounts is what the IAEA detected. There's not much that you can do with trace amounts that I'm aware of (oh wait, the TRR only needs trace amounts of 27% to run for a few hours, right?) If that to you is sufficient evidence of an active weapons program, please be my guest to freak out over it.So evidence that Iran has enriched nukes far beyond what they need for power generation and far above what they need for medical isotopes doesn't bother you?
I've said it before and hopefully don't have to say it too many more times, but you cant hide this type of evidence with a fresh coat of paint and a can of Lysol. If theres insufficient supporting evidence of a current weapons program, theres likely a simple reason for that.
The pile of 93% enriched is fully accounted for, and that the stuff that at present is the greatest risk...............if that suddenly disappears overnight, I'll come begging to join you in your bombshelter if that'll give you some satisfaction. Otherwise, I'm not getting worked up over it.
But its nice to see that you finally understand that there is a legimate need for 100kg of 20% LEU.
