Anyone else concerned about this Metrolinx Tax program?

[SenecaBoy]

Did not know where to put this thread, but i figure since the provincial govt. is going to be involved, a lot of politics is going to be involved.

By now much of you know that the offer Metrolinx has put forth

Metrolinx is recommending a 1 per cent hike in the HST; a commercial parking levy averaging 25 cent per space per day; a 5-cents-a-litre gas tax and a 15 per cent increase in development charges. Combined the taxes would raise about $2 billion a year to pay for 13 transit projects including a downtown relief subway, a Mississauga LRT and the electrification of some GO lines.

This has got me really concerned, the union that runs the TTC is nothing short of complacent and often I have to deal with delays, no service, and more delays while riding the ttc :frusty: Just the other day I was walking into Coxwell station and I hear these TTC union guys all bragging about the lavish hours they get and had another TTC employee brag to his co-worker on how he gets to work when he wants and how we wants...Sigh!!You dont make this shit up, I was just in shock.

On top of this I see these TTC union guys all driving Benz, BMW, Audi, one has to wonder. They keep leeching us with rising fair charges + more taxes and offer nothing but subpar service in return.

Now metrolinx plans to wage war on the average consumers/ motorists by putting this surcharge on gas and development costs. how much more can we take? I know i am not too pleased with it and definitely will not support it. Anyone else concerned by this?

 

[groggy]

Did not know where to put this thread, but i figure since the provincial govt. is going to be involved, a lot of politics is going to be involved.

By now much of you know that the offer Metrolinx has put forth


This has got me really concerned, the union that runs the TTC is nothing short of complacent and often I have to deal with delays, no service, and more delays while riding the ttc :frusty: Just the other day I was walking into Coxwell station and I hear these TTC union guys all bragging about the lavish hours they get and had another TTC employee brag to his co-worker on how he gets to work when he wants and how we wants...Sigh!!You dont make this shit up, I was just in shock.

On top of this I see these TTC union guys all driving Benz, BMW, Audi, one has to wonder. They keep leeching us with rising fair charges + more taxes and offer nothing but subpar service in return.

Now metrolinx plans to wage war on the average consumers/ motorists by putting this surcharge on gas and development costs. how much more can we take? I know i am not too pleased with it and definitely will not support it. Anyone else concerned by this?

The TTC receives one of the lowest percentages of funding from governments of any major urban transit system. That's the real issue, that its been starved for years and they don't have money enough to hire enough people or to maintain the system properly. Adding more subways as Ford would like would just make it worse, but forcing subways on areas that won't have the population density to support them. The unions are well paid, but that's not the reason the TTC isn't working properly.

 

[Mervyn]

The TTC receives one of the lowest percentages of funding from governments of any major urban transit system. That's the real issue, that its been starved for years and they don't have money enough to hire enough people or to maintain the system properly. Adding more subways as Ford would like would just make it worse, but forcing subways on areas that won't have the population density to support them. The unions are well paid, but that's not the reason the TTC isn't working properly.

If you only build subways in places that have only have the proper density, then you have waited to long to build the subway.

 

[groggy]

If you only build subways in places that have only have the proper density, then you have waited to long to build the subway.

Perhaps, but then there are cities like Paris where there are subways downtown and LRT's for the burbs.
Gambling that the density of the inner burbs are going to increase enough to justify subways is a big risk.

 

[HandsomeB]

The TTC receives one of the lowest percentages of funding from governments of any major urban transit system. That's the real issue, that its been starved for years and they don't have money enough to hire enough people or to maintain the system properly. Adding more subways as Ford would like would just make it worse, but forcing subways on areas that won't have the population density to support them. The unions are well paid, but that's not the reason the TTC isn't working properly.

98-104K for a station collector?!?!?! http://www.glassdoor.ca/Salary/TTC-Toronto-Transit-Commission-Salaries-E327306.htm "unions are paid well, but that's not the problem" What is it then? Oh... oh i know what it is the McWinty government don't have enough "Revenue tools" for the TTC

I do not trust the government with one more cent of my money not after the ORNGE, GAS Plant and E-Health scandals. WTF is next? the Metrolinx Scandal? Ohhh believe it's gonna happen... then you got this mayor who "appears" to be smoking crack to cover up all the bullshit that's been going on in the government. That seems to be the only thing people are paying attention to these days.

 

[fuji]

If you only build subways in places that have only have the proper density, then you have waited to long to build the subway.

I agree!

Where is Rob Ford's detailed, funded plan for building subways? Wasn't that an election campaign promise? So where the hell is it?

 

[CapitalGuy]

I'm sure folk in Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie are thrilled at the idea of paying an extra 1% on everything they spend, so Torontonians can have more subway stops.

 

[fuji]

I'm sure folk in Thunder Bay and Sault Ste. Marie are thrilled at the idea of paying an extra 1% on everything they spend, so Torontonians can have more subway stops.

You're certainly right about the folks in Thunder Bay. They must be lobbying for subways in Toronto as hard as they can -- heck, they'd probably pay 2% or even an extra 5% to get a few more of those contracts. It's big business for them!

 

[Anynym]

The TTC receives one of the lowest percentages of funding from governments of any major urban transit system. That's the real issue, that its been starved for years and they don't have money enough to hire enough people or to maintain the system properly. Adding more subways as Ford would like would just make it worse, but forcing subways on areas that won't have the population density to support them. The unions are well paid, but that's not the reason the TTC isn't working properly.

I don't know of ANY major urban transit authority in Canada that doesn't make that exact same claim. Funny thing: I don't believe it. The numbers I've seen in the past suggest that the TTC is reasonably well funded, but squandered a lot of money buying off their unions instead of managing it.

 

[fuji]

I don't know of ANY major urban transit authority in Canada that doesn't make that exact same claim. Funny thing: I don't believe it. The numbers I've seen in the past suggest that the TTC is reasonably well funded, but squandered a lot of money buying off their unions instead of managing it.

The government is even less efficient building highways, so that isn't an objection particularly to public transit.

 

[MattRoxx]

What I find bizarre is that while Metrolinx is still looking for 'revenue tools', the federal gov't is handing out $53 billion for subways and infrastructure.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...6/02/bc-municipal-infrastructure-funding.html

So this dishing out of gravy from all Canadians should result in less money needed from Ontario or Toronto taxpayers for our subways, right? Or no. I can't figure it out. It just seems so strange that when Liberals do it, it's wasteful leftist socialism, but when the Conservatives do it, it's necessary Economic Action Plan infrastructure job-creation investment funding.

 

[groggy]

I don't know of ANY major urban transit authority in Canada that doesn't make that exact same claim. Funny thing: I don't believe it. The numbers I've seen in the past suggest that the TTC is reasonably well funded, but squandered a lot of money buying off their unions instead of managing it.

Here's a page that compares fares across North America:
http://www.blogto.com/city/2011/12/is_the_ttc_the_priciest_transit_system_in_north_america/

Toronto is at the top.

And here's a page that compares the ratio of funding that comes directly from the fare box, again Toronto is quite high up there, highest in NA for a public transit system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farebox_recovery_ratio

 

[FOOTSNIFFER]

The government is even less efficient building highways, so that isn't an objection particularly to public transit.

There's a huge, and I mean huge, constituency of voters out there that have HAD IT UP TO HERE with the sunshine lists (now 88,000 people and climbing) and overstaffing of the bureaucracy soaking us for years now. Rob Ford was our feeble and pathetic attempt to be heard that we do not want to fund government any more as if it were 1948....we can't and don'[t want to afford it anymore. I would cut, forthwith, the salaries of everyone on that sunshine list by 15% IMMEDIATELY. Let'em sue if they want to.

 

[GameBoy27]

The Liberals are proposing 50 new revenue tools, I mean taxes as a method to make up for wasteful spending and scandals over the last 8 years.

 

[fuji]

There's a huge, and I mean huge, constituency of voters out there that have HAD IT UP TO HERE with the sunshine lists (now 88,000 people and climbing) and overstaffing of the bureaucracy soaking us for years now. Rob Ford was our feeble and pathetic attempt to be heard that we do not want to fund government any more as if it were 1948....we can't and don'[t want to afford it anymore. I would cut, forthwith, the salaries of everyone on that sunshine list by 15% IMMEDIATELY. Let'em sue if they want to.

So.. knock down the Gardiner? Or you like that particular government spend?

BTW, per capita income is dramatically higher now than in '48. We can afford more, the reason we have less are different choices in wealth distribution. Inequality has increased faster than incomes.

 

[elmo]

The Libs have already proven their inability to manage our money and I doubt Metrolinx has hit a budget in their existence. i don't trust either of them to complete a project of this size on time or on budget.

 

[fuji]

The Libs have already proven their inability to manage our money and I doubt Metrolinx has hit a budget in their existence. i don't trust either of them to complete a project of this size on time or on budget.

But you don't complain about the huge cost overruns building 400 series highways because you like those, even though the price tag for the most recent one was in the range of a hundred billion dollars once all costs are fully included.

Governments are inefficiency in motion, but nobody else, nobody, is willing to undertake mass transit projects, no matter whether we are talking about highways or subways.

The only time that private industry get involved is when the government incentives (bribes) are so sweet the taxpayer has been soaked just as thoroughly.

So sure, let's have a conversation about how to put better management on large government projects, but to give this as an objection to public transit but not new highways is transparently a cheap shot.

 

[fuji]

sunshine lists (now 88,000 people and climbing)

It's a little idiotic that the sunshine lists weren't indexed to inflation. Eventually someone earning minimum wage will make the sunshine list.

 

[elmo]

But you don't complain about the huge cost overruns building 400 series highways because you like those, even though the price tag for the most recent one was in the range of a hundred billion dollars once all costs are fully included.

Governments are inefficiency in motion, but nobody else, nobody, is willing to undertake mass transit projects, no matter whether we are talking about highways or subways.

The only time that private industry get involved is when the government incentives (bribes) are so sweet the taxpayer has been soaked just as thoroughly.

So sure, let's have a conversation about how to put better management on large government projects, but to give this as an objection to public transit but not new highways is transparently a cheap shot.

I'm not sure why you draw the conclusion that I'm taking a shot only at public transit. I'm not, in fact, I don't think any large public institution can do anything with economic efficiency. Taxpayers have been screwed by governments on all levels for years because they are not concerned about spending wisely and in control, they are only concerned about staying in power. The two promote conflict. For you to put untrue words in my mouth is a cheap shot, but we're used to that.

 

[fuji]

So please be clear -- you are against the construction of 400 series highways, and you think that the construction of the highways we have already--especially the recent ones--was a huge mistake?

And as a more pressing and related concern -- we need to do something about the Gardiner. Since you don't trust governments to spend money, plainly, the right thing to do is the cheapest thing -- tear it down and don't replace it with anything. Is that what you think?

Or are you willing to entertain the possibility that such things are worth doing, even though the government may not do them in the most efficient way possible?