Anyone else concerned about this Metrolinx Tax program?

[basketcase]

There's a huge, and I mean huge, constituency of voters out there that have HAD IT UP TO HERE with the sunshine lists ...

You do realize that with inflation, the sunshine list isn't the elite that it once was. $100,000 in 1996 dollars is worth about $150,000 today. $67,000 in 1996 dollars would put you on the sunshine list today.

(not that it isn't a useful list but it does need to account for 17 years of inflation)

 

[basketcase]

The Libs have already proven their inability to manage our money ...

I'd say that about any government. Didn't fiscal conservative Harris end up with a bigger debt that when he started?

 

[elmo]

I'd say that about any government. Didn't fiscal conservative Harris end up with a bigger debt that when he started?

I think most governments do but this one is particularly disgusting.

 

[elmo]

So please be clear -- you are against the construction of 400 series highways, and you think that the construction of the highways we have already--especially the recent ones--was a huge mistake?

And as a more pressing and related concern -- we need to do something about the Gardiner. Since you don't trust governments to spend money, plainly, the right thing to do is the cheapest thing -- tear it down and don't replace it with anything. Is that what you think?

Or are you willing to entertain the possibility that such things are worth doing, even though the government may not do them in the most efficient way possible?

Once again your lack of comprehension amazes me. Where the hell did you get that I'm against highways? Do I have to be either cars or transit? Can't I be both?

To be clear, I don't like governments wasting our money.

The Gardiner should have been done ages ago, long before Ford and probably before Miller - it didn't just start falling apart a few months ago. If it had been done years ago it wouldn't have cost nearly as much and would have been completed already, thus avoiding the potential issues a crumbling overhead highway brings. Instead, we've already spent a ton of cash studying/analyzing and putting bandaids on it and we are no further ahead...is that what your idea of efficiency is?

Highways and transit are necessary and need to be built and paid for from our tax dollars. We already have the tax revenue to do this type of work, but I don't trust governments to do it because they waste so much of it, they don't concern themselves with any issues regarding the tax base, rather, their only concern is how to stay in power for as long as they can. I think all of our levels of government are too big and too powerful. Our governments cost us a fortune, more every year, yet the levels of service we as taxpayers get from them lessens every year. Tax Freedom day this year was two days later than last year. Are these the organizations you trust? If this was a business scenario, would you continue to look to a supplier with records like these? Would you contribute more to them with a variety of revenue tools?

They say this big transit project is going to cost 40 billion over 20 years. They want us to pay for it in installments of 2 billion a year for 20 years. In 20 years it will not be the tool we need, it will be too small. To make it worse, it will be behind schedule by a few years and over budget several times the figure. I'm not sure what the answer is but it do know this isn't it. I think the correct answer is a complete overhaul and elimination of corruption ( I know...pie in the sky). Until we do that,we will have crooks like Miller, McGuinty etc in office and we take it up the ass. At some point, all of these governments will be so over budget on all levels, all of the revenues will go to debt service and nothing to actual public service.

Do you support this type of economic suicide? If not, what's the answer?

 

[groggy]

Once again your lack of comprehension amazes me. Where the hell did you get that I'm against highways? Do I have to be either cars or transit? Can't I be both?

To be clear, I don't like governments wasting our money.

The Gardiner should have been done ages ago, long before Ford and probably before Miller - it didn't just start falling apart a few months ago. If it had been done years ago it wouldn't have cost nearly as much and would have been completed already, thus avoiding the potential issues a crumbling overhead highway brings. Instead, we've already spent a ton of cash studying/analyzing and putting bandaids on it and we are no further ahead...is that what your idea of efficiency is?

Highways and transit are necessary and need to be built and paid for from our tax dollars. We already have the tax revenue to do this type of work, but I don't trust governments to do it because they waste so much of it, they don't concern themselves with any issues regarding the tax base, rather, their only concern is how to stay in power for as long as they can. I think all of our levels of government are too big and too powerful. Our governments cost us a fortune, more every year, yet the levels of service we as taxpayers get from them lessens every year. Tax Freedom day this year was two days later than last year. Are these the organizations you trust? If this was a business scenario, would you continue to look to a supplier with records like these? Would you contribute more to them with a variety of revenue tools?

They say this big transit project is going to cost 40 billion over 20 years. They want us to pay for it in installments of 2 billion a year for 20 years. In 20 years it will not be the tool we need, it will be too small. To make it worse, it will be behind schedule by a few years and over budget several times the figure. I'm not sure what the answer is but it do know this isn't it. I think the correct answer is a complete overhaul and elimination of corruption ( I know...pie in the sky). Until we do that,we will have crooks like Miller, McGuinty etc in office and we take it up the ass. At some point, all of these governments will be so over budget on all levels, all of the revenues will go to debt service and nothing to actual public service.

Do you support this type of economic suicide? If not, what's the answer?

If we need the infrastructure we have to just support it getting done.
Its not like the conservatives haven't botched infrastructure spending, like the gazebo crap and f-35 fiasco not to mention the icebreakers.....
The provincial liberals screwed up by trying to go for a few extra votes, then turned a bad decision into something worth investigating but not coming clean.
Ford has botched the transit file, messing up arranged funding, plans on the go and the goodwill of the provincial and federal funding partners.
He's a clown, but hopefully council can act like adults on the matter and the few decent beaurocrats around can help it get done.

If you don't try to support the work getting done, then you might as well get ready for the Gardner being shut down for safety, TTC shut down for maintenance they can't afford and whatever other bridges like Dufferin that we haven't kept the maintenance on being closed as well.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Scrap all-day kindergarten and the falsely named Clean Energy Benefit.

The termination of those two programs will free up $2.5 billion per year for public transit.

And there won't be any need for "revenue tools."

 

[GameBoy27]

Scrap all-day kindergarten and the falsely named Clean Energy Benefit.

The termination of those two programs will free up $2.5 billion per year for public transit.

And there won't be any need for "revenue tools."

Why would they do that when they can count on us. You know, the "revenue tools"? 'Cause that's what we are to them!

 

[elmo]

If we need the infrastructure we have to just support it getting done.
Its not like the conservatives haven't botched infrastructure spending, like the gazebo crap and f-35 fiasco not to mention the icebreakers.....
The provincial liberals screwed up by trying to go for a few extra votes, then turned a bad decision into something worth investigating but not coming clean.
Ford has botched the transit file, messing up arranged funding, plans on the go and the goodwill of the provincial and federal funding partners.
He's a clown, but hopefully council can act like adults on the matter and the few decent beaurocrats around can help it get done.

If you don't try to support the work getting done, then you might as well get ready for the Gardner being shut down for safety, TTC shut down for maintenance they can't afford and whatever other bridges like Dufferin that we haven't kept the maintenance on being closed as well.

exactly which part of my statement "Highways and transit are necessary and need to be built and paid for from our tax dollars." are you confused about? Clearly we have a need for infrastructure and we should pay for it out of our tax dollars. Libs, cons etc are the same in terms of wasting money, it took both parties to get us to where we are today (fiscally fucked), which is why I used the term government instead of naming specific parties or people. You seem to think one party or person can save us...please remove your head from the sand. You also think we should just throw as much money as they want at them to go ahead and build everything. People like you are the reason we will never get out of debt...never ever.

 

[groggy]

exactly which part of my statement "Highways and transit are necessary and need to be built and paid for from our tax dollars." are you confused about? Clearly we have a need for infrastructure and we should pay for it out of our tax dollars. Libs, cons etc are the same in terms of wasting money, it took both parties to get us to where we are today (fiscally fucked), which is why I used the term government instead of naming specific parties or people. You seem to think one party or person can save us...please remove your head from the sand. You also think we should just throw as much money as they want at them to go ahead and build everything. People like you are the reason we will never get out of debt...never ever.

I'm just waiting for your plan to build highways and transit with the funding we've already got, since seem to think we're paying enough in taxes to do it already.
What's your plan?

 

[basketcase]

...
What's your plan?

The typical libertarian plan, cut funding for everything doesn't create personal benefit.

 

[elmo]

The typical libertarian plan, cut funding for everything doesn't create personal benefit.

You must have me confused with the Libs. I believe the gas plant move only benefited them. Of course I could go on and on to include all day kindergarten, Ornge, hydro, HST etc., but I'm sure you'd rather keep your head in your ass and just pay more, without demanding any accountability, and continue to receive sub-standard services and highly inflated prices. I hope the world is pretty through your rose-coloured glasses. We wouldn't to demand any more from our overpaid, under performing public service now would we?

 

[basketcase]

The problem is differentiating accountability from cuts and you criticism of one party does nothing to either improve accountability or provide a method to fund transportation systems.

Speaking of rose coloured glasses, are you suggesting that there is any party that is more accountable?

 

[elmo]

The problem is differentiating accountability from cuts and you criticism of one party does nothing to either improve accountability or provide a method to fund transportation systems.

Speaking of rose coloured glasses, are you suggesting that there is any party that is more accountable?

Sadly I agree, the reason I mentioned the Libs is that they are particularly adept a fucking things up, leaders in the field actually. this doesn't mean I think any other political stripe is much better. The problem we face is that we have a bunch of good politicians and no good prospects for leadership from any party.

We need to make the individuals and the parties financially responsible for wrongdoing with taxpayer money but I can't see any party supporting that.